MTMilitiaman
Member
Alternatively,
Underpowered for backpacking in brown bear country?
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Alternatively,
Ok, that'll do it too!
Alternatively,
DFW1911
Member
I was bluff charged by a large Brownie in Alaska...there were three of us with 12 gauges and I've never felt so under-armed in my life (including military experience).
Make no mistake what you may be facing. This is, arguably, the most formidable predator in the Lower 48 (beside Man).
Take you shotgun with some slugs designed to penetrate and stop a tank. That will give you a modicum of comfort
Oh, forget the pepper spray since it depends on too many conditions to work correctly (I may catch *ell for saying this).
Regarding the extra weight, your shotgun will feel like a toothpick if you encounter one of the angry beasts. Trust me. I've been there.
I hope this helps,
DFW1911
PS: A study by a Fish and Wildlife PhD came out some years ago wherein he advocated never carrying less than two bear deterrents at all times while in Grizzly country. He included firearms in his deterrent category.
Keep this in mind when you're in camp and cooking. Someone MUST be on the lookout. That's just the way it works. Camp does not equal safety, it equals opportunity to a hungry bear.
Make no mistake what you may be facing. This is, arguably, the most formidable predator in the Lower 48 (beside Man).
Take you shotgun with some slugs designed to penetrate and stop a tank. That will give you a modicum of comfort
Oh, forget the pepper spray since it depends on too many conditions to work correctly (I may catch *ell for saying this).
Regarding the extra weight, your shotgun will feel like a toothpick if you encounter one of the angry beasts. Trust me. I've been there.
I hope this helps,
DFW1911
PS: A study by a Fish and Wildlife PhD came out some years ago wherein he advocated never carrying less than two bear deterrents at all times while in Grizzly country. He included firearms in his deterrent category.
Keep this in mind when you're in camp and cooking. Someone MUST be on the lookout. That's just the way it works. Camp does not equal safety, it equals opportunity to a hungry bear.
WTBguns10kOK
member
Well, 9mm+, now you know the only other thing High Roaders fear more than the typical 6'6" high-on-meth criminal we all face daily. The bear. Basically, be scared of it and don't ever go into the woods unless you have a SWAT team to back you up with 10 gauge shotguns. Or, just get some bear spray and a revolver and enjoy the wilderness, like the rest of us do.
To this site's glorious mods...could we possibly get a permanent sticky in hunting or general where all OMG ITS A BEAR??!!!! discussion can reside? It gets so old seeing this same question with the same extreme answers surrounding the common sense. From now on this will be my cause..to unify all bear threads against themselves.
To this site's glorious mods...could we possibly get a permanent sticky in hunting or general where all OMG ITS A BEAR??!!!! discussion can reside? It gets so old seeing this same question with the same extreme answers surrounding the common sense. From now on this will be my cause..to unify all bear threads against themselves.
Having been backpacking in and around Glacier Park and the Bob Marshall Wilderness, I have never been worried by bears and have never had a bear that even worried me. The bears that I have seen want just as little to do with you as you do with them. Bear spray is all I take as it is lightweight, quick, and effective(or so I hear). If you do pack bear spray and a gun, and are charged by an aggressive bear, and you do use the spray, and in the event that it doesn't repel them, you probably won't have the chance to use the gun.
Read this about spray vs. firearms
http://www.udap.com/bearnews.pdf
Read this about spray vs. firearms
http://www.udap.com/bearnews.pdf
ohgrady
Member
Borrowed from:
http://alaskafocus.net/blog/where-to-photograph/grizzly-bears/
Then there’s the oft-told joke:
How do you tell black bear poop from grizzly bear poop?
Black bear poop has grasses and berries in it, and has an “earthy” aroma.
Grizzly bear poop contains bells and gun barrels, and smells like pepper spray.
http://alaskafocus.net/blog/where-to-photograph/grizzly-bears/
Then there’s the oft-told joke:
How do you tell black bear poop from grizzly bear poop?
Black bear poop has grasses and berries in it, and has an “earthy” aroma.
Grizzly bear poop contains bells and gun barrels, and smells like pepper spray.
Alaskan
Member
If you are comfortable with the shotgun, take the shotgun. I think the XD would just p**s a bear off even more.
By the way, my bear spray contains lead.
By the way, my bear spray contains lead.
I grew up hunting/fishing/camping in Alaska, and I have to agree with Cosmoline: forget about the handgun and load slugs in the shotgun, NOT buckshot. I always carried (and still have) an 870 express with the standard 20" smoothbore, rifle sighted barrel, and 2 shot extension. Works great for me! By the way, to back up some of these other guys, of all the time I've spent in the AK wilderness I've never had a scary bear encounter. Just saying...there's a first time for everything though I suppose.
Oregun89
Member
This^^^... I myself pack my 1895XLR with about 20 extra rounds, my Walther P99 with 3 spare magazines fully loaded, and my 10/22 BB with about 1,000 rounds just for kicks. I like the weight, it makes it more of a challenge, my friends give me hell, but hey, I know that I won't get eatin' by anything.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
That's why we don't sticky more topics. There is very little under the sun. There are very few questions that have not already been asked ... and the greatest of these is, "Which caliber for bears?!?!?"
LeonCarr
Member
I think if you are gonna use a handgun for bear protection, get the short barreled model and have the sights removed. That way it won't hurt as much when the bear shoves it up your...
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Mt Shooter
Member
A shotgun although a good choice, is way too much weight to be carrying. Ill I ever take, besides a XD and a big ol can of bear replants is a good pair of tennis shoes. By the time it takes you get your shot gun ready you can just do this:
When the bear begins his bluff charges or actually charging sit down and put the shoes on. When your companions ask you what your doing, just calmly reply Ill I have to do is out run you.
When the bear begins his bluff charges or actually charging sit down and put the shoes on. When your companions ask you what your doing, just calmly reply Ill I have to do is out run you.
AStone
Member
In Alaska, I'd worry about this.
In the northern Rockies, naw.
Apples and oranges; day v night.
Consider how many thousands of people backpack up there every year,
and how rare attacks are, then ask yourself whether you need to carry that shotgun.
I would not. Handgun for human wackos, for sure, but no shotgun.
Pepper spray, situational awareness, no food in tent,
change clothes if you spill food on you before going in tent.
You've got more chance by far to be killed on the Interstate getting there than bear attack.
In the northern Rockies, naw.
Apples and oranges; day v night.
Consider how many thousands of people backpack up there every year,
and how rare attacks are, then ask yourself whether you need to carry that shotgun.
I would not. Handgun for human wackos, for sure, but no shotgun.
Pepper spray, situational awareness, no food in tent,
change clothes if you spill food on you before going in tent.
You've got more chance by far to be killed on the Interstate getting there than bear attack.
SAM1911 - I agree with you that the 40S&W will work fine in a bear attack but have a different opinion on the application. It should be used for capping the guy next to in the knee before running away. Old cliche' - It's not about outrunning the bear. It's about outrunning everyone else who is trying to outrun the bear.
It's a popular topic here on the THR. I must not be too burned out on the subject because I think I have read through every one of them....
Another vote for a pump gun with a sling & loaded with lots of slugs. If you have enough dough to hire a couple of Sherpa guides then an M2 50BMG with the T&E.
It's a popular topic here on the THR. I must not be too burned out on the subject because I think I have read through every one of them....
Another vote for a pump gun with a sling & loaded with lots of slugs. If you have enough dough to hire a couple of Sherpa guides then an M2 50BMG with the T&E.
AStone
Member
Relates to the primal fear of being eaten by something larger than oneself with large teeth.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
To the OP's question, whenever I am in the woods, I would generally more concerned about human predators than bears. How many people are killed annually by bears, compared to the number who are murdered in remote areas or just "go missing"? Neither is all that common, of course, but the most dangerous potential predators in the backcountry are Homo sapiens, not Ursus arctos.
But, back to the more entertaining "what caliber for bear" aspect...
#2 reason, those two calibers aren't all that powerful. Shooting a large brown bear with a centerfire .22 would probably make him really mad, and 7.62x39mm is more of a hog/small-deer caliber than a bear caliber (less powerful than .30-30), though the latter would beat a pistol.
Consider that a large brown bear is comparable in mass to an average Cape Buffalo, the brain is small and extremely well protected, and if it's charging you most of the vitals will be protected by extremely thick muscle. Check out the photos below (both are brown bear) and observe how little of the bear's vitals are vulnerable to a small-caliber rifle if it's facing you on all fours. The thoracic cavity is invulnerable to .223 or 7.62x39 at that angle, and even a shot to the eye socket wouldn't touch the brain. I doubt that even a .223 or 7.62x39 round to the nasal cavity would penetrate the brain case, given the bone thickness and the amount of tissue the bullet would have to traverse first to reach it.
If a bear is charging you, you need something powerful enough to plow through all that hypertrophied muscle and break a shoulder or continue into the thoracic cavity. Think .45-70 with hard cast solids or somesuch.
Now, if you're hunting a bear, and can take a shot at the thoracic cavity from the side, or if your bear is so obliging as to stand on its hind legs while you shoot at it, a smaller caliber may suffice. But bears are rather tank-like from the front.
But, back to the more entertaining "what caliber for bear" aspect...
#1 reason, size and weight, if you're hiking for a week.
#2 reason, those two calibers aren't all that powerful. Shooting a large brown bear with a centerfire .22 would probably make him really mad, and 7.62x39mm is more of a hog/small-deer caliber than a bear caliber (less powerful than .30-30), though the latter would beat a pistol.
Consider that a large brown bear is comparable in mass to an average Cape Buffalo, the brain is small and extremely well protected, and if it's charging you most of the vitals will be protected by extremely thick muscle. Check out the photos below (both are brown bear) and observe how little of the bear's vitals are vulnerable to a small-caliber rifle if it's facing you on all fours. The thoracic cavity is invulnerable to .223 or 7.62x39 at that angle, and even a shot to the eye socket wouldn't touch the brain. I doubt that even a .223 or 7.62x39 round to the nasal cavity would penetrate the brain case, given the bone thickness and the amount of tissue the bullet would have to traverse first to reach it.
If a bear is charging you, you need something powerful enough to plow through all that hypertrophied muscle and break a shoulder or continue into the thoracic cavity. Think .45-70 with hard cast solids or somesuch.
Now, if you're hunting a bear, and can take a shot at the thoracic cavity from the side, or if your bear is so obliging as to stand on its hind legs while you shoot at it, a smaller caliber may suffice. But bears are rather tank-like from the front.
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This is your life we are talking about so take the biggest cannon you can carry. If not a nice lever action in 45-70 or 450 marlin are also nice and light to carry. As someone suggested if you do not have any of the above use the magnum slugs. I would like to add a different twist from a fellow friend of mine that leaves in Alaska. He recommends to alternately load the shotgun with buckshot and slugs. That way if a bear charges the first shot with buckshot should be a face shot to stop the charge hoping that some of the shot might have blinded the bear following with a slug for the kill. I personally would prefer to call in an artillery strike.
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