unfortunately, a reality of lead poison- Condors

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I always thought that the reason lead shot on waterfowl was prohibited had nothing to do with directly shooting the birds, but rather was to prevent lead from being introduced into the water supplies where even many weak acids will over time convert elemental lead into bioavailable lead species.
 
Interesting info, thanks Percy.

Thank you. I'm always glad to help

I also appreciate your thinking regarding "a viable species".

I'm very much a conservationist but sometimes we have to ask if conserving a particular plant or animal to the detriment of other species, including humans, is wise. I'm certainly not saying that we need to write off the Condor, just that sometimes I believe emotions and nostalgia play too much of a role in rule and regulation making that concerns endangered / protected species.

The species that make a difference to human quality of life are the ones that don't get attention.

Sure, we've all heard of panda, and whooping crane and manatee conservation, and in truth there isn't any reason we couldn't live with those beasts, but do they really make a huge difference to the people they live near? Unless you count tourism, no, not really.

Bats on the other hand, get no attention. They can be vulnerable, though, because it's easy to destroy their roosts. A bat has a fearsome metabolism (you try waving your arms to stay in the air and see how hungry you are afterwords!, and a colony of bats can make an almighty dent in the insect population. Why do we care about insects? Well, it wasn't too long ago that people tried to stay out of Washington DC during the summer on account of the malaria. It's a pity that bats aren't more charismatic, I'm sure they'd get more respect. Ditto toads, and all the various fish species that eat mosquito larvae before the little bloodsuckers can go about their nefarious rounds.

Now, show of hands, who here wouldn't be beside themselves in joy if lead bullets poisoned mosquitos? Those are a critter that I absolutely cannot support the conservation of!:)

Anyhow, maybe they'll be able to teach the condors to avoid lead somehow. It sounds far fetched, but in the early days the condors kept frying on power lines before people tought them to avoid them. The critters clearly have some capacity for learning.

In South America the andean condor seems to do OK eating dead cows, so maybe if we replace all the people in southern california with cattle (and let's be honest, could we really tell the difference?) the condors would have a viable food source. They're really just too big to subsist on deer and such; they're very specialized animals.

In the meantime we can all hope that someone comes up with a fantastically cheap tungsten alloy that mushrooms on impact the way lead does, never misses and also does the laundry.

</rant>
 
Interesting thread, and I really have no knowledge of the subject, however, I do know over many years of field testing, that lead is devastating to gophers . . .
 
Hmm i had a simple request ( masked in humor so to speak ) that the OP provide evidence other than media hype , such as autopsy reports , and for this i get labeled as not very high road ? Guys IMHO from the evidence shown so far lead may or may not be killing condors , just like the dc gun ban may or may not be saving lives . It has been shown that lead can kill ducks if they feed in some streambeads . Enough ducks to worry about , i dont know but the feds say so . One condor is enough to worry about imho , but as of yet i have not seen that condor . At this rate The next thing you know somone here will accuse me of not beliveing global warming is caused by humans .
 
You are plenty highroad, imho. I'd prefer no species disappear & I concur . . . science, not emotional/sensational reporting is the proof in the pudding. I am growing weary of "hunters/shooters" being the bad guy . . . you know, the folks who pay ammo taxes, buy licenses . . . the money from which SUPPORTS wildlife. I've always wondered about mortality rates created by shot pellets with inherent lousy ballistics. Hell, out here, if you're on Fed land, you can't even hunt mammals with lead anything . . . and I've yet to shoot a coyote in or over water. Reckon it's the old philosophy of "If 25 pounds is good, 50 pounds must be twice as good." Nothing epitomizes "overkill" as well as government regulation.
 
All it takes is one pellet to lead poison a duck.

IIRC the feeding studies conducted in the 1970's, which were used to support the ban, showed higher pellet counts were required to cause health issues in the test birds. The number seven as the lower limit seems to stick in my mind. I seem also to recall non-lead grit type had an important impact on pellet deformation/duration of retention. What I do not recall from any of the feeding studies I encountered back in the day was the impact of nutrition. Seems/seemed logical to assume a dabblers feeding on natural feed stocks compared to birds with access to dry stubble/corn/Purina duck chow would have different retention/absorption characteristics. Maybe worse, maybe better but I don't recall much mention of how realistic or artificial the food supply for the feeding studies actually was. Seemed like a glaring problem to me. BTW as an historical point, feeding studies where heavily relied on to support the ban.

I really wonder about the validity of the comment in quotes above based on what I've read over the years regarding lead toxicity in waterfowl. I would love to see modern data with a good model proving what the LD% of 1 lead pellet.

Like most duck hunters in the 70’s, I would have been prepared to throw rocks if rocks were truthfully put forth as the only way to save the ducks and the sport (the number of ducks in the flyways was terribly low back then) but IMO the science was very weak. On the other hand, the ammo manufacturers had not one single issue offering the new steel loads at beyond premium prices. It just appeared to me the major ammo makers and the decision makers at the federal level may have been carpooling or something. Those original steel shot loads su-ked BTW. Great way to make cripples.

In regard to issue of condors being poisoned by lead ingestion I'm inclined to say the species is worthy of protection, JMHO and worth exactly what you paid for it. They seem pretty neat and cause no harm. What concerns me about the original post was the entire way the lead ban for waterfowlers was handled in the 70's. Replace the word "condor" with the word "duck" and it could have been written up in any hunting magazine thirty years ago.

Follow the money. Follow the politics.

S-
 
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