Unique Powder and MBC Small Ball 125 gr LRN?

[Rule3]

I have several boxes of these bullets. My main powders for 9mm are Powder Pistol and HP38. Due the never ending powder shortages I am trying to use some other powders. I have Unique (mainly for 45 Colt and other calibers)

When I load this bullet I have to keep the COL very short for my CZ Custom SP01 Shadow as the chamber (leade is very short) so COL has to be around 1.080.(yes) Other bullets that have more of taper or point, chamber at longer COL

The data I have lists from around 4.0 up to 5.0. I can load light for this gun as the springs are light but I want to be able to shoot it in other 9mm's

So bottom line, anyone using this bullet with Unique and have a decent load? Yes, I can just go 4.5 gr.

Just have not used Unique in 9mm at the shorter COL before.

Thanks

 

[noylj]

No, I don't. A start load of 3.8gn of Unique should get you going safely.
Unique is one of the safest powders you can use. It is in the right "slowness" for 9x19 and it doesn't have pressure spikes or other sudden increases in pressure. 9x19s usually give best accuracy with slower powders and recoil simply isn't worth the worry

 

[rfwobbly]

I have a CZ and am sympathetic to your situation. The #13 Speer shows Unique 4.1 to 4.5grn at 1.130". Of course that's way too long, but you get an idea for the "load window". As the OAL gets shorter the window simply slides down the scale, but stays the same 0.4grn wide.

Unique is not dangerous in the compressed state that a short OAL will probably result in. Your main issue is going to be getting the powder in there because Unique occupies about 1.4 times as much volume of say W231. In light loads it is also known to be fairly "dirty" and makes a mess inside the gun.

If I scale down the Speer load for your new OAL of 1.080", then I get a max load of ~4.3grn. Start somewhere around 3.9grn and work up slowly, you should be OK. Once you get to where it burns cleanly, Unique is an excellent powder for lead.

 

[Scimmia]

My standard 9mm load is 4.7gr Unique under a 125gr MBC SmallBall, but I load to 1.120". Works fine in my CZ75, but mine doesn't seem to have an exceptionally short lead like some do. Gets about 1100 fps out of the CZ.

 

[Steve C]

Speer loads are with their 125gr swaged LRN. Missouri small ball is harder at Brinell 18 which needs a heavier load if you want it to seal in the bore. The older Alliant data says 6.0grs of Unique is maximum with a 125gr LRN.

The data below comes from my most recent 9mm load book and is for RCBS cast bullets. I would suggest that you will get best results at the load listed from 5.1gr to 5.5gr using Unique with Missouri's bullet. Haven't used Unique with 125gr cast for years but if I remember correctly I was using 5.4grs, the start load calculated using Alliants 2003 data.

I've been using 4.5 to 4.9gr of Green Dot with Missouri Small Ball and Berry's 125gr RN plated in the 9mm with a 1.150" OAL and have had good results.

 

[Rule3]

I have a CZ and am sympathetic to your situation. The #13 Speer shows Unique 4.1 to 4.5grn at 1.130". Of course that's way too long, but you get an idea for the "load window". As the OAL gets shorter the window simply slides down the scale, but stays the same 0.4grn wide.

Unique is not dangerous in the compressed state that a short OAL will probably result in. Your main issue is going to be getting the powder in there because Unique occupies about 1.4 times as much volume of say W231. In light loads it is also known to be fairly "dirty" and makes a mess inside the gun.

If I scale down the Speer load for your new OAL of 1.080", then I get a max load of ~4.3grn. Start somewhere around 3.9grn and work up slowly, you should be OK. Once you get to where it burns cleanly, Unique is an excellent powder for lead.

Thanks. That was my "issue" (I have many) the shorter COL I do not like making short 9mm not much room to play with without increase pressure.

I realize I need to go with a lower than "normal" start load but do not believe that data reduction is linear and can not be adjusted by a percentage.

 

[-Gadsden-]

I'm currently running 4.7 grains of Unique under a 124 grain Z-Cast lead round nose bullet at 1.125 OAL. Lyman tells me that the max is 5.0 grains, however it looks like others here have pushed that envelope a bit more. I'm curious to see if a slightly hotter load will be more accurate - always looking for that edge.

When do you start getting excessive pressure indicators with Unique for 9mm?

 

[1KPerDay]

Also interested in the OP's question as I'm going to have to start loading Unique with these bullets at that short OAL soon. My SIG and Berretta need 1.089 or shorter. My M&P CORE choked on them so I assume even shorter for it... I think I'll shoot plated in that gun, despite the greater cost.

 

[wally]

Drop down to about 4.2 gr and seat them as deep as you need. I shoot MBC 147gr hard cast seated 1.13" OAL over 3.7 gr Unique in all my guns, M&P (9 CORE, 9C and Shield), Glock with LW barrel, RIA 9mm 1911, CZ75. This OAL was set to fit the Glock mags.

Work up from there if necessary once you've found the OAL needed for your minimum pistol.
Pistol specific loads of the same caliber is IMHO for the birds unless you are shooting 2700 Bullseye matches.

The MBC "small ball" must be a very blunt bullet, I've not used it.

 

[LiveLife]

The MBC "small ball" must be a very blunt bullet, I've not used it.

Yes it is. The picture below shows MBC 124 gr RN (Small Ball) next to "stepped" Dardas 125 gr RN. As you can see, the bullet base is much longer and shorter/rounder nose will result in deeper seated bullet base.

Here's a comparison picture of loaded "Small Ball" at 1.080" OAL. If loaded to typical 1.125" OAL I load stepped RN bullets, it will hit the rifling of my barrels with short leade.

 

[Rule3]

Just as a belated follow up.

I loaded the 125 gr MBC with 4.0 gr of Unique (not my go to powder for this gun) at a COL of 1.070 (yes) It is a CZ Custom and actually shorter chamber than my other CZ 9mm. It has very light springs all around. This COL is just for this gun and bullet. My other 9's can go a little longer,

Functioned great, dead nuts accurate, brass fell no more the maybe 6-10 ft all in one nice pile.

BDS, Thanks for the pictures as always, Great for reference!!!

 

[GLOOB]

When do you start getting excessive pressure indicators with Unique for 9mm?

What kind of pressure indicators are you talking? In a pistol, you often don't get any. The first thing that often happens in a 9mm semiauto is that cases start getting stuck in the chamber. Not stuck like jammed in there and need to be pried out. Just that they don't extract, properly, and an empty case is left in chamber, causing a jam. If that happens you need to back down. I've had a case stick at 5 gr Unique (+- a couple tenths) behind a 124 gr cast bullet. But this is highly dependent on your model of gun. Yours might handle less or more.

 

[Potatohead]

9x19s usually give best accuracy with slower powders

Never really heard this, can you expound?

 

[Average Joe]

I run between 4.5 and 4.9 of unique, with a 125 gn cast round nose.

 

[rsrocket1]

Quote:
9x19s usually give best accuracy with slower powders

Never really heard this, can you expound?

Really fast powders like Clays, Trail Boss, Titewad don't really lose accuracy, they simply can't drive the bullets fast enough before going over pressure. The slow velocities at max pressures often aren't enough to cycle the action.

 

[Beanie-Bean]

For LRN, I run 4.5 gr. of Unique.

 

[noylj]

>9x19s usually give best accuracy with slower powders
If this is referring to my comments, I am only talking accuracy at 25-50 yds and NOT velocity or pressure, just holes in paper--you know, accuracy.
This is true for my four P-08s, two P-38s, two P-35s, two 1911s, two CZ-75s, and my S&W. The round has never done well with really light loads and seems to need to run 20+ KSI for accuracy and then, only with the slower powders.
With Bullseye shooters (the competition and not the powder) now trying to make a 9x19 as accurate as a .45, they will soon be able to give definitive answers. Since my guns are all stock, I can only feed back what I have seen in 40 years.
By the time you SEE a pressure indicator, you are over 9mm MAJOR in most cases. Recoil force, distance cases thrown, case bulge above the extractor groove, primer appearance are the main indicators.

 

[TfflHndn]

Unique is very good with 9mm, and I too have found with faster powders (Red dot, Bullseye) I don't get reliable cycling until I'm right at max, which I don't want. If your Unique load is dirty, bump it up a bit and it should burn cleaner. It likes loads in the upper quarter of its load range.