unmarked patrol cars

[hardcorehunter5]

Well it seems that most people that replied to this are the anit-coppers. First in California you do not have to yeild to an emergency vehicle unless there is a red light. I dont know if that holds true for most states, but nation wide companies that sell law enforcement equipment with not sell you a light bar or rearview mirror light bar, that has a red light without department letter head. If that law applies to your location it is a safe bet you are being pulled over by a Cop.

Everyone can believe what the want about traffic enforcement, but it is a necessary evil. There are to many people out there that in danger others, because their lack of skill or concentration while driving. I have investigated enough traffic accidents to know this first hand.

This last one is direct at Gorgon Fink. Your profile says your are public servant. Well you are serving no one if all you think about traffic enforcement is that it is to look for contraband and get cops killed. Traffic enforcement saves lives and protects protects. Just because a person gets pulled over for a traffic violation doesn't mean they get a citation. Letter of the law and spirit of the law. Finding contraband is a bonus and the risk of getting killed goes with the job we knowingly accepted. What is asinine if my assumption is correct that you are a police office; "public servant" that you believe you are a good one!!!!

 

[solareclipse]

unmarked in this state cannot pull you over. it's awesome, you can fly by them (and everyone does) and just wave. often they wave back

 

[steveracer]

Wow.

I think we're all pretty here, girls, and can chill out for a minute.
Let's face it: Per driver there are many times less accidents in Europe than here.
Per driver there are many more traffic stops here than in Europe.
In Europe, people drive very fast on the highway in very fast cars, but not really all that fast in regular grocery-getters. I have been the fastest car on the road over there at only 95 miles per hour. Not what I would call terribly fast. Everybody drives in the right lane, and passes on the left. THERE ARE NO UNMARKED POLICE CARS on the highway in Germany, Italy, UK, Austria, Switzerland, and France. People don't slow down when they see a police car there, because they are there to stop drunks, maniacs, and respond to accidents/emergencies. Here it is a different story. Here we have to weave in and out of traffic because idiots are driving in the left lane at the same speed as the people to their right. This is a much bigger danger area than the car doing 90.
Worse, by far, is the sudden realization that the guy tailgating you at 85mph is a police car, only not marked. Great, now, if you stand on the brakes, you are both admitting guilt and making the road unsafe for the cop. If you don't, you are oblivious to your surroundings and dangerous. If you speed up, you are posing a danger to the motorists around you, bacause you are a speed demon.
Can you win? Yep. You can join the highway patrol. Never met a larger collective of good men, with good intentions, doing good work, and being terribly hyppoctritical all at once.
My hat's off to cops. It's a hard job that doesn't pay well.
I respect you all. I admire your courage and your fortitude. I think every single one of you who uses the badge to drive faster than me, who is obviously a dangerous criminal, driving more than 20mph over the limit, should be given a booklet of parking tickets to pass out, and an electric scooter. Permantently.

 

[bmwmcars]

IMHO... the use of unmarked cars for traffic stop purposes is ridiculous and poses a significant danger to the general public. Using them for all sorts other purposes is just fine by me. But to add to that, If I call the cops at 2am for an intruder or some other issue, I expect a marked car to show up, not an unmarked.

The cars are tools, no different than any other asset LEO have at their disposal. Tools should be selected based on a number of criteria, not the least of which is ability to do the job, but also which will cause the least amount of collateral damage. Cops dont run around throwing grenades into movie theaters, while it may kill the BG, there is way too much collateral damage.

Unmarked cars being used by LEOs, which are then inturn impersonated by BGs to facilitate commision of a crime, is by my view collateral damage.

just my .02

 

[Gordon Fink]

This last one is direct at Gorgon Fink. Your profile says your are public servant. Well you are serving no one if all you think about traffic enforcement is that it is to look for contraband and get cops killed. Traffic enforcement saves lives and protects protects.…

You will notice that I was dismissing minor traffic “violations” (“speeding” on an empty road, burned-out taillight, failing to signal on an empty road, etc.). I have no problem with reckless or impaired drivers being intercepted. I do have a problem with folks getting pulled over as a thinly veiled pretext to search for contraband or enhance revenue.

I’m not a cop, but I hate to see cops killed and citizens harassed. If you must cite people for minor violations, mail them a warning or fine notice, rather than a risk a potential confrontation or roadside accident.

~G. Fink

 

[dillonuser]

I do not believe in using unmarked cars. Where is the "deterence"? If there is any,I can't see it.

 

[Sindawe]

The only deterrence I can see to using an unmarked vehicle for traffic enforcement is when other drivers see the unmarked vehicle pulling over another driver.

There is a spot on Baseline here around Boulder that gets pretty heavy patrolling by both an unmarked vehicle (large, dark gray new pickup) and a bicycle officer who "hides" in the bushes with a radar gun. He's sorta grumpy I think, since he NEVER waves back when I raise my hand in greeting as I drive by.

 

[fchavis]

I'll be the first to admit that unmarked cars have their place in law enforcement, but not in traffic stops. It seems like VA has some of the worst offenders out there, as they DEFINATELY use unmarked cars for traffic stops and that there are all sorts of varieties and no standardization of the makes of the vehicles. It conditions the public to only look for the blue lights, as there are no other identifying features at all, and that is a dangerous vulnerability that has been shown in other locals to put the public at risk. Any VA residents have ideas about who to talk to?

 

[hardcorehunter5]

Steveracer great opening line. I think the difference in Europe is people pay a premium to drive a vehicle. I talking in the thousands of dollars. Not every tom, dick, and harry are driving around. Secondly were there are no speed limits the road is constructed to last longer, be a smother ride, and the turns are slight in order to keep the high speed. And with that high speed the vehicles are engineer to handle the speed. All people drive fast, but only few know how.

One piece of advice regarding the main topic. Realize that if you are not stopping to a law enforcement vehicle, that officer will assume you are evading him and will act accordingly. Hopefully if a Office is in that situation he will realize that someone may not recognize him. I would like to say don't be over paranoid about being stopped by a unmarked, if legal to do so, the odds are pretty good you can tell it is a real cop upon his exit from the vehicle.

 

[hardcorehunter5]

Gordon Fink-

I respect and understand what you are saying. Keep in mind that by mailing a ticket we are then only citing the vehicle and not the driver. The driver of the vehicle my not be the registered owner of the vehicle, so someone receives a citation and may not be the violating individual.

 

[kengrubb]

The Washington State Patrol recently purchased several unmarked Dodge Hemi Chargers for targeting aggressive drivers.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Impersonating an Officer of the Law

I'm of the opinion that an unmarked car doing traffic is driven by a felon. There should be a law obsolving any citizen from all claims, civil and criminal, in shooting and/or killing an LEO imperonator. Stealth cops should not be exempted. IOW, get out of an unmarked cruiser during a stealth stop it should be open season.

What I'd like to see (never happen) would be something like "Real Stories of the Highway Patrol" where an officer got out of an unmarked car was shot and killed by an honest citizen on the unmarked cruiser's video cam and then acquitted...

Wouldn't even need to feed any hogs.

 

[Diomed]

The use of unmarked units in Virginia does seem to be on the rise of late. Why aren't there any bills to eliminate the practice? Wait, I know the answer. The agencies and localities would see their revenue streams cut. Can't have that, heavens no.

Right now there is a lady who was on dateline or 60 minutes who is serving time for refusing to acknowlege an unmarked trooper who wanted to pull her over on a deserted road. she popped on the flashers and drove slowly toward town. When a marked patrol car pulled up, she pulled over. The cops went to full felony stop on her and she was all upset and confused and trying to do what they said but she ended up getting charged and CONVICTED of felony evasion. The dashboard cams showed the whole thing and I can say that jury is insane.

Huge Catch-22. The public is always told that if they feel unsafe, drive to an area where they do feel safe to finally pull over. Of course, actually doing this means you're assuring yourself of a ticket at best, and taking your life into your hands at worst.

Traffic enforcement is nothing but revenue enhancement with a dash of authoritarianism for flavor.

 

[c_yeager]

Unmarked cars are usefull and appropriate for a lot of law enforcement duties, but they simply dont make sense for traffic enforcement.

 

[Zach S]

I dont have a problem with unmarked cars. Most unmarked cars anyway. I once had someone tailgating me, so I took a side street and took off. Literally took off. I was driving a car that weighed less than 3000lbs with a mild 302, and the car tailgating me was, what a later found out to be, an FWD V6 Impala. A few minutes later, I was pulled over by a marked car... Long sotry short, the officer was understanding as to why I took off.

The tailgating gets on my nerves. Roll up close enough, long enough to read my tag and then back off.

In my area, I've seen unmarked Durangos and an F250, the only reason I know about the F250 is I saw it stop someone. I cant spot an unmarked Camaro, but I'm sure they have them. Most of the NCSHP camaros I've seen had the paintjob, as well as "state trooper" painted on the nose and rear hatch, but they dont have any lightbars on top. Considering they'll do 160+ off the showroom floor, the lightbar probably puts too much drag on the car, if the wind doesnt pull it off first.

As someone who drives a decomissioned cop car, unmarked cars do get on my nerves sometimes. Last night I got out the door late to get to work. I followed a car for a good bit of the way doing 43 in a 45, where traffic moves around 55 or so...

 

[Oldtimer]

You might want to see if you can get your state's "Emergency Vehicle Operation" manual. Some states FORBID unmarked police vehicles from being used for traffic stops. Other states require that the police vehicles have a 2-tone paint job (magnetic signs placed on the doors can qualify as a second color). In most states, an officer CAN NOT create a dangerous situation (tail-gating?) when enforcing traffic laws. Most states have minimum requirements for the emergency vehicle lights that are used for pulling over traffic violators.

The least you can do is to find out what your state laws are before going to court. You might find something that would be a "violation", and that might mean that the citation you got would be deemed "invalid"!

 

[Raptor5191]

Watch out...we also monitor with black helicopters and super-secret squirrel radio waves.

Sheesh.

 

[Derby FALs]

we also monitor with black helicopters and super-secret squirrel radio waves.

You wish...

 

[buzz_knox]

In most states, an officer CAN NOT create a dangerous situation (tail-gating?) when enforcing traffic laws.

How about when they are just breaking traffic laws?

 

[Daniel T]

Watch out...we also monitor with black helicopters and super-secret squirrel radio waves.

Well, the black helicopter bit is true, so the squirrel thing...?

I've seen unmarked cars used for revenue-generation plenty of times. APD enjoys using their new black F150s, and there's a DPS trooper that patrols 183 in a black CV pretty regularly.

 

[SMMAssociates]

As someone who drives a decomissioned cop car, unmarked cars do get on my nerves sometimes. Last night I got out the door late to get to work. I followed a car for a good bit of the way doing 43 in a 45, where traffic moves around 55 or so...

Zach:

As a rent-a-cop "on the road" many years ago, my POV was a genuine "wannabemobile". A green Rambler Ambassador (this was about the same time as LAPD was using Matador's for patrol vehicles) with a 5" spotlight and assorted extra antennas. "Personal" plates, and when working, a magnetic sign. Locally, nobody much cared, so a red "gumball" and a couple of big turn-signal lights lived in the rear window. I had a couple of 8" blues in the grille in one - I actually had two of these over the years - but don't remember which one this is about.

I had to take a run into New Castle PA. That's about 20 miles from my front door. At the time, PA was running unmarked traffic units. I got behind a guy out on the Highway who looked in his mirror, saw the Rambler and the spotlight, and proceeded to stay at 45mph the whole way.... (Parts of the road were posted 55 or so at the time, and most of it's single lane with few opportunities to pass.)

As we got into New Castle and started to hit areas that were well lit, he figured out that I was from Ohio....

The next car - after the two green Ramblers - was a Crown Vic. Dark blue.... I brought it home, put a single antenna on it, mounted the radio, and forgot about it. Never got into another similar situation - with one exception - but "What do you call a late model luxury car speeding down the road with extra antennas on it?" "Police Brass late for lunch."

Then there was the time, right after seat belts became a secondary offense, when some guy in a very old car apparently was leaving work at our mall, and just came flying out in front of me. I'm sure he looked in the mirror and spotted the blue Crown Vic, 'cause he spent the next half-minute or so trying to get his seat belt on. No spotlight on that car. The wife was starting to get upset by stuff like that, and I was already very rarely on the road by then. (The next car - and now the current one - only have a hi-band radio and a CB HT for travelling.)

Traffic? We were never permitted to do any traffic other than direct traffic at an accident. On "our" properties, we could warn errant motorists, or even call the local PD, but that was about it. So, as I always put it. "I don't give out tickets. I get 'em...."

I'm reminded about a "Mad Magazine" parody some decades ago describing driving through "Zeke's Corners" where Zeke pulls up next to you in a 1929 Essex and challenges you to a race. Naturally you win. Then Zeke pulls up alongside again and shows you his badge.... Then you get to meet his brother-in-law the Judge....

Regards,

 

[Art Eatman]

As usual, the only solution to the problem--and using unmarked cars for traffic stops is a safety issue--is to put pressure on the elected critters. Loudly and often.

An example: "It's for the children." WHAT IF a mother and child, a bit over the speed limit, were being followed by an unmarked car, and she got scared and tried to speed away and then crashed? "If it will save just one life..."

The newsies would love it. It's controversial...

Art

 

[RustyShackelford]

traffic enforcement/New Mexico/unmarked units

IMO, LEOs should only be allowed to use "unmarked" vehicles in limited conditions. If I were a police chief or sheriff I'd only allow marked LE vehicles to make traffic stops and/or conduct traffic enforcement. I think New Mexico has state laws about this issue. They only allow marked LE cars/uniformed LEOs to do traffic enforcement.

Over the years I've seen several incidents of fraud/waste/abuse by LEOs and fake LEOs who caused major problems for the police agency or community they were working in. I recall a string of attacks in the Pittsburgh area by a guy claiming to be a state trooper. I've also seen small town LEOs get in major FBI/DoJ problems for traffic stops that spun out of control.

LEOs and public service supervisors/managers should develop traffic enforcement methods that are fair and increase public safety. Not look for ways to trick drivers or play games. Many LE agencies/public service managers(mayors/city managers/police chiefs/etc) want to pass the buck or dodge their accountabilty to avoid civil lawsuits/bad PR. These are issues that can be avoided with proper training/supervision/policy.

Rusty S

 

[Art Eatman]

Rusty, policy comes from the top. It's the elected critters and their appointees which need to be the focus of political efforts. IMO, the whole deal is to increase revenues from traffic fines when unmarked vehicles are used in traffic patrol. No other reason. That's why the safety issue can be used against it.

Most elected critters want their cushy jobs, or they wouldn't be there in the first place. Any jeopardy over a purely financial affair would have them shafting the taxpayer in some other pocket...

Art

 

[lawson]

my buddy recently bought a Crown Vic that was retired from the California Highway Patrol. his main issue is that everyone in front of him automatically slows down, and it takes him forever to get anywhere.

many of the cities in the Phoenix area still use the white Crown Vics with the spotlight and G plates, but several have switched to Silver Chevy Impalas (some departments are using Impalas for their marked cruisers as well)

i was driving back to my home on the south side from a meeting on the north side, and and i was being tailgated by a silver impala. it was still on me after several turns, so i turned into a crowded and well lit gas station (a Quik Trip, which often have LEOs hanging out in them due to their company policy of free coffee and counter space for LEOs to do paperwork). it was only as i parked that the Impala hit the lights. two officers came out of the QT to see what was going on, and the officer got out of the impala and approached my vehicle. i explained the situation, and he apologized for giving me a scare.

he then informed me that i had driven off with my briefcase on the roof of my car, which amazingly was still there. we all had a good laugh at my expense.