Unmarked S&W model 36?
- Thread starter VTKFJoe
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Shear_stress
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Out of curiosity, if it's unmarked, how do you know it was used by the CIA? Does it come with a factory letter?
Sistema1927
Member
If it is truly "unmarked" it could also be a foreign copy.
OK, thanks. I don't know it was used by the CIA - I do know that when researching it online I came across a site that speculated that the unmarked revos were CIA.
http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/gunpages/model36.htm
At the bottom of the page:
Okay, a mystery...
Why does this old Model 36 (is it a Model 36?) lack barrel markings and the S&W logo? No, the webmaster doesn't have the answer. If you know or can make
an educated guess, please send an e-mail to the address which
appears below the picture. If this is resolved, or really good
guesses are received, such information be posted below the
picture.
Best and most likely guess so far:
I think your mystery model 36 is a sterile model issued to military intelligence and CIA agents. During the the Vietnam war special ops groups and CIA agents were issued equipment that was internally and externally sterile "manufactured without marks" of all logos, brands, serial numbers or of anything that would identify the equipment or personnel as American. These intel groups usually operated in operations not sanctioned by the U.S. Government and if captured would need to deny their U.S. affiliation. I am not sure if the model 36 was used by U.S. intelligence groups, but the basic premise may be applied. I have seen other types of sterile firearms including M16 and M14 rifles, Colt 1911 pistols and others. The list of sterile equipment also includes sterile wrist watches, cameras, radios and navigation equipment.
Juan Avila
Rialto, California
September 1, 2006
http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/gunpages/model36.htm
At the bottom of the page:
Okay, a mystery...
Why does this old Model 36 (is it a Model 36?) lack barrel markings and the S&W logo? No, the webmaster doesn't have the answer. If you know or can make
an educated guess, please send an e-mail to the address which
appears below the picture. If this is resolved, or really good
guesses are received, such information be posted below the
picture.
Best and most likely guess so far:
I think your mystery model 36 is a sterile model issued to military intelligence and CIA agents. During the the Vietnam war special ops groups and CIA agents were issued equipment that was internally and externally sterile "manufactured without marks" of all logos, brands, serial numbers or of anything that would identify the equipment or personnel as American. These intel groups usually operated in operations not sanctioned by the U.S. Government and if captured would need to deny their U.S. affiliation. I am not sure if the model 36 was used by U.S. intelligence groups, but the basic premise may be applied. I have seen other types of sterile firearms including M16 and M14 rifles, Colt 1911 pistols and others. The list of sterile equipment also includes sterile wrist watches, cameras, radios and navigation equipment.
Juan Avila
Rialto, California
September 1, 2006
If I was selling a unique pistol, like this one which might be a "CIA" gun, I would have some documentation. I would start with a letter from S&W confirming it's actually a S&W and when/where it was sent. From there I would try to find some references I could cite that the CIA actually used this type of pistol. Just for a start. I would imagine that a documented CIA gun would be quite pricey.
Shear_stress
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Thanks for the link. This seems a little fishy to me. Without knowing where this picture came from, and, for that matter, whether it's been digitally altered (notice how the barrel appears blurrier than the rest of the gun), it's hard to make any determination about the gun. According to Supica and Nahas, the M36 was used by innumerable agencies. However, it makes no sense to me why the CIA would remove the manufacturer's stamps.
One never knows what the CIA might do, or might have done, but it makes little sense to issue an unmarked revolver with no identifying marks that’s obviously a "made by Smith & Wesson" product. In fact catching anyone with such a weapon would raise eyebrows and suspicions much faster then a regular model that was in wide circulation and could easily be expected and explained. A more common (and sensible way) to arm a clandestine agent would be to use a correctly marked and serial numbered handgun of foreign manufacture that couldn’t be traced back to “the agency.”
I have no idea what you might pay for this probably-made-in-someone’s-basement turkey, but I wouldn’t spend a cent.
There were lots of ersatz S&Ws and Colts made in Spain. That is probably one of them, or a Khyber Pass special. 
The Pakistanis can file a brand new looking gun out of a piece of scrap metal. It may not be properly heat treated but they look functional.
The Pakistanis can file a brand new looking gun out of a piece of scrap metal. It may not be properly heat treated but they look functional.Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
Also, check very carefully just to make sure that all identifying
marks haven't been removed on purpose. For instance, if it turns out
to be a model that is suppose to have a S/N but don't' then run as
fast as you can away from that gun. If caught, you are look'in at a
minimum of 10 years in prison and a $10,000 fine~!
marks haven't been removed on purpose. For instance, if it turns out
to be a model that is suppose to have a S/N but don't' then run as
fast as you can away from that gun. If caught, you are look'in at a
minimum of 10 years in prison and a $10,000 fine~!
Well, I had some slightly bad info. It has a serial number and S&W markings on the barrel and handle but no model markings - My father-in-law and I straightend it out so it it probably a pre '58 Model 36 after all.
Thanks again all - and that is good advice Ala Dan. No worries though.
Thanks again all - and that is good advice Ala Dan. No worries though.
Shear_stress
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Sounds like a very nice gun. I love those Chief's Specials, the older the better.
BarneyFife
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Power?
I would think that a 5 shot .38 special would be a woefully underpowered gun to be arming CIA agents with. Not bad for concealed carry, but I wouldn't fight a war using one.
I would think that a 5 shot .38 special would be a woefully underpowered gun to be arming CIA agents with. Not bad for concealed carry, but I wouldn't fight a war using one.
Confederate
Member
Which leads us back to the question of whether there is such a thing as a CIA gun, unmarked as described. The way I see it, an American unmarked gun would be too obvious and for what purpose? When looking at foreign copies of cameras, guns, etc., they're nearly all distinguishable from the real made in USA thing. Rossis and Taurus copy Smiths, as well as old time Llamas and what have you. Take away the markings and a Smith & Wesson is still a Smith & Wesson. A Smith without markings would be a dead giveaway of a CIA or covert American piece of equipment. In fact, a good CIA operative would almost always use a locally procured gun replete with serial number and make. Being caught with an unmarked gun would be the quickest way to be made
Besides, American guns can be found all over the world. The North and South Vietnamese both had Smith & Wessons. Colts were always harder to come by. (When Clinton Commerce Secretary Ron Brown's body turned up with a .45-caliber hole in his head, inwardly beveled, it raised questions. The weekend after, the local who was responsible for bringing in the Secretary's plane was said to have committed suicide with guess what? A .45 automatic. Very American of him in a land where most people had European calibers. But all this, of course, was a coincidence.)
Covert operations are made to look different from what they really are, so no one ever knows. But using unmarked weapons is nothing I'm familiar with.
Besides, American guns can be found all over the world. The North and South Vietnamese both had Smith & Wessons. Colts were always harder to come by. (When Clinton Commerce Secretary Ron Brown's body turned up with a .45-caliber hole in his head, inwardly beveled, it raised questions. The weekend after, the local who was responsible for bringing in the Secretary's plane was said to have committed suicide with guess what? A .45 automatic. Very American of him in a land where most people had European calibers. But all this, of course, was a coincidence.)
Covert operations are made to look different from what they really are, so no one ever knows. But using unmarked weapons is nothing I'm familiar with.
I made a factual statement, about the purchase and use of the BMs. Use your head, you have a dead soldier/collaborator/government official, the bad guys know (s)he was killed by an enemy. I've traveled a bit, and was sometimes surprised by the firearms in use. A resistance fighter will use whatever is available, remember the "Liberator" pistols, they were in .45 ACP.
Sure - I just meant that it doesn't seem like incognito weapons are a high priority with secret agents, else they would have a 9mm or 32.
I'm sure they were not trying to imply that there was a Mexican intelligence presence behind German lines in WWII.
There was probably a shortage of US 45 autos available for immediate issue so they went and got the B-Ms as an expedient.
I'm sure they were not trying to imply that there was a Mexican intelligence presence behind German lines in WWII.
There was probably a shortage of US 45 autos available for immediate issue so they went and got the B-Ms as an expedient.
Confederate
Member
Everything I learned about covert intelligence operations I owe to Get Smart!. It was more of a documentary than a comedy!
Remember the episode where Max had been programed to react to the word "checkmate"? When the Chief won their weekly game and said, instead, "Well, it looks like I win again," the frustrated Kaos agent, disguised as a servant, interrupted and said, "Aren't you going to say 'checkmate'?"
At that Max pulls out his pistol and shoots him dead.
"Max!!" the Chief yells. "Why did you shoot that man?"
Max looks at the still smoking revolver, narrows his beady eyes and says, "I don't know, but I've got a feeling I better have a reeaaallly good answer!"
Remember the episode where Max had been programed to react to the word "checkmate"? When the Chief won their weekly game and said, instead, "Well, it looks like I win again," the frustrated Kaos agent, disguised as a servant, interrupted and said, "Aren't you going to say 'checkmate'?"
At that Max pulls out his pistol and shoots him dead.
"Max!!" the Chief yells. "Why did you shoot that man?"
Max looks at the still smoking revolver, narrows his beady eyes and says, "I don't know, but I've got a feeling I better have a reeaaallly good answer!"
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