Unpleasant encounter at a gas station

[Collector0311]

There's quite a difference in being situationally aware, and running scared from/ drawing on a guy looking for change.
Being aware keeps you safe, being paranoid gets others hurt. Sure it's hard to trust people these days, but the day you draw on an innocent who you deemed a threat because they approached your 6, well that's the day they start to distrust gun owners.

I'm not saying open yourself up or scale back your attitude, it's just my opinion that a calm assessment of the whole situation yields a better return than a rush to judgment on another's intent.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.Why is it important to acknowledge someone I don't wish to...acknowledge?.

We are animals. If you're spotted, you're spotted. Have you ever hunted anything?

 

[Ed Ames]

That was a long post to say, "a panhandler asked me for money".....


Question: While you were focused on the panhandler, did anyone open your car door (on the side furthest from you) and grab something out of your car?

 

[stumpers]

We are animals. If you're spotted, you're spotted. Have you ever hunted anything?

I don't see how eye contact stops panhandling, or violent crime. Making eye contact with someone who already knows that you know that he is present does what?

I have hunted a few things. Perhaps as many as 1/3 of the things I've killed knew I was there.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I don't see how eye contact stops panhandling, or violent crime..

Well I won't draw you a picture but a burka or hood on the head will assuredly guarantee no eye contact.
What are you wondering? Are you an ostrich?

 

[stumpers]

Well I won't draw you a picture but a burka or hood on the head will assuredly guarantee no eye contact.
What are you wondering? Are you an ostrich?

Maybe I'm having a mentally slow day, but why be disrespectful to me when I'm asking questions about your view on a topic?

 

[Collector0311]

Eye contact IMO only assures one thing: a restructuring of the situation in the mind of the aggressor. Could change his mind or tactics, might not. No definitive action occurs with or without eye contact, so to generalize that to every situation is misguided.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Maybe I'm having a mentally slow day, but why be disrespectful to me when I'm asking questions about your view on a topic?

I hear you and if I seemed disrespectful, I apologize. It's just that something so basic and fundamental is sometimes frustrating, though I'm no Darwin nor true judge. It's just that it's pretty simple.. I guess only to some though.
good luck

 

[Orion8472]

People can be opportunists. It's why it is important for women to be obvious in "checking out their surroundings when they walk to their car". If they can sneak up on you, it is far easier. If you act timid, that makes you more of a target. If you are aware, and make that known, you may prove to be "the failure in the plan", so they'll move on.

So, I look around all the time. Even as a guy, I'm not safe from potential harm.

 

[JustinJ]

Eye contact with a panhandler just tells him you might be willing to give money. Blatant attempts at ignoring him communicate you're not interested. That's it.

If somebody is looking to do you harm avoiding eye contact will not dissuade him. In fact, the exact opposite is probably true.

 

[huntsman]

Is an EDC an EDC if it's locked in the trunk?

I've found a snarl and a growl is effective to turn away the crumb-bums although being big hairy and mean looking might help also

 

[Certaindeaf]

Eye contact with a panhandler just tells him you might be willing to give money. Blatant attempts at ignoring him communicate you're not interested. That's it.

If somebody is looking to do you harm avoiding eye contact will not dissuade him. In fact, the exact opposite is probably true.

I'm not saying to eyeball someone longingly. That's it.

 

[SSN Vet]

The way I see it, the "typical" pan-handler wants an easy buck and no trouble... they're more like a salesman, trying to sell you their sob story.

I make immediate eye contact, a few paces away and say assertively, "no thanks".

This way I've taken the initiative to move the interview to the next phase... on my timing and not his.... either he changes course and seeks another customer... or plays his hand.

Often times, a person finds themselves "off balance" when the discourse is not proceeding as envisioned, and they may be disinclined to push their luck.

If they decide to push it, a loud and stern "back off" can get attention from other passers by (aka witnesses) and again advance the interview on my time table, and not his.

The response you get to step two is going to very quickly reveal whether you need to bolt, or defend yourself.

 

[itsa pain]

I have said a few times : I was just about to ask you for money and they laughed and walked away

 

[gamestalker]

Unless I'm in a gun free zone, I am always wearing. But I am not you, and you are not me. No need for me to further comment on this one.

GS

 

[Willie Sutton]

Eye contact is a dominance ritual. You want to control the situation? Control the contact. You want to win "out of the gate". Three seconds of direct eye contact sets the tone.

Willie

.

 

[Ed Ames]

Eye contact is a dominance ritual. You want to control the situation? Control the contact. You want to win "out of the gate". Three seconds of direct eye contact sets the tone.

Willie

.

Yeah, it's a challenge. If you challenge most people they back down. Challenge the wrong person and they attack. Especially if they are young and out with friends where it becomes a loss-of-face incident for the challenged party, it can cause all sorts of fun.

So can smiles. You can start a fistfight with a smile. I've seen it happen.

There are three main sorts of panhandlers. Real homeless people, who are driven off by loud coughing (they don't have insurance or a great safety net so they don't want to get sick), professional panhandlers who will back off with a firm "no", and criminals distracting (part of a team grabbing goods or positioning for a mugging) or positioning for a crime. Eye contact may help with the third, or it may be exactly what they want as part of their distraction efforts.

 

[Twmaster]

He's a vagrant looking for a handout; no different than a barker at a carnival or a salesman at the mall.

I'm sorry but that's a rotten comparison. If I go into a mall or carnival I expect barkers and sales people.

When I stop for gas I expect to get my gas and go. Not be accosted by a bum.

We have a lot of problems with that here where I live in Dallas. Every time I go into the CVS up the street from me I'm pestered by some bum with a story. Even this afternoon when I stopped in for my RX's.

My usual routine is to give them a case of dead cold stink eye and if they persist I tell them flatly NO. I guess as I'm 6'5" and just plain huge they get the message quickly.

Thankfully I have not had things escalate from there.

 

[Torian]

There has been a lot of back and forth in here about the advice I gave to not make eye contact. Let me be more specific:

As some already keyed in on, eye contact is a form of acknowledgement, and it frequently acts (in my experience) as a catalyst for the panhandler to continue his approach or methods to collect money. Not acknowledging him at all, whether verbally or through body-language is key. This doesn't mean I'm not watching him out of my peripheral vision, nor does it mean I'm avoiding his gaze. I'm merely entirely disinterested in him. If he happens to walk into my line of sight, and doesn't disengage, I will take it to step 2 or 3.

Any interaction or acknowledgement as a first step just feeds into their strategies. They spend all day doing this crap, and can work off of virtually anything you throw at them. Giving them absolutely nothing to work with is a great way to mentally disarm them.

 

[Ed Ames]

... for the panhandler to continue his approach or methods to collect money.

Which is harmless.

If a panhandler is after freely given money, they will move on as soon as they realize you aren't going to give them anything. Saying no, "Sorry, I'm broke,", or even, "get a job" (my favorite for the panhandlers that dress up as preachers or firemen...¿j/k?) tells them you aren't going to give. They will move on to easier marks.

The problematic panhandlers aren't panhandlers, but people using panhandling as a means of concealing their actual activities.

 

[gpjoe]

There has been a lot of back and forth in here about the advice I gave to not make eye contact. Let me be more specific:

As some already keyed in on, eye contact is a form of acknowledgement, and it frequently acts (in my experience) as a catalyst for the panhandler to continue his approach or methods to collect money. Not acknowledging him at all, whether verbally or through body-language is key. This doesn't mean I'm not watching him out of my peripheral vision, nor does it mean I'm avoiding his gaze. I'm merely entirely disinterested in him. If he happens to walk into my line of sight, and doesn't disengage, I will take it to step 2 or 3.

Any interaction or acknowledgement as a first step just feeds into their strategies. They spend all day doing this crap, and can work off of virtually anything you throw at them. Giving them absolutely nothing to work with is a great way to mentally disarm them.

I don't think that you post was necessarily misunderstood, at least by me, but I guess the question is:

How do you know FOR CERTAIN that you are dealing with a panhandler rather than a person with criminal intent?

I can't tell the difference immediately and don't want to waste time finding out. I am going with direct eye contact to establish that I am clearly aware of that person's presence in the event that it happens to be someone more aggressive than a beggar. If it is a beggar and he becomes emboldened by my eye contact - so be it. I'd rather be in that position than to have a mugger think I'm not paying attention to him or am too timid to make eye contact as he clearly enters my space.

 

[Torian]

Which is harmless.

If a panhandler is after freely given money, they will move on as soon as they realize you aren't going to give them anything. Saying no, "Sorry, I'm broke,", or even, "get a job" (my favorite for the panhandlers that dress up as preachers or firemen...¿j/k?) tells them you aren't going to give. They will move on to easier marks.

The problematic panhandlers aren't panhandlers, but people using panhandling as a means of concealing their actual activities.

With respect Ed, I totally beg to differ.

We had highly aggressive panhandlers in my part of town. I once had to call the police after a guy followed me into a restaurant and started yelling at me and getting in my face because I used your favorite phrase "get a job". He felt he was disrespected. I later learned my first mistake was even talking to him to begin with. A couple other times, I was a nice guy, gave panhandlers some money, and found out later they followed me home at a distance to find out where I lived. You can imagine the problems that caused...banging on the door at 0200 in the morning.

Panhandling can easily turn into a confrontation or create other problems for you depending on the character of the individual you are dealing with. There are resources available (food / lodging) for those who are homeless, and are willing to not drink or do drugs...but that is half the problem. Many of these guys also have substance abuse issues which are compounding their problems. Giving them money enables their lifestyle...and I'm not going to do it. I give to organizations that help them, but never directly to them.

I don't know where you draw your experience from, but in the North East, where I used to live, it was just a different animal altogether.

I'll stick with what has worked for me.

 

[Ed Ames]

I'll stick with what has worked for me.

You should stick with whatever you are comfortable with.

I've dealt with panhandlers in the northeast (Phila and various bits of NJ), Texas, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. I doubt there is any sort of panhandler I haven't dealt with, including very aggressive ones, real criminals masquerading as panhandlers, and genuine homeless people in need of (mostly psychiatric) help "The System" just doesn't give just to name a few types.

Most panhandlers are professionals. They are in it for the money. They aren't substance abusers or homeless. They have figured out they can clear lots of money (a friend of mine averaged $150 a day in the 1990s, and claimed he sometimes saw $300+ a day) tax free for the service or making people feel better about themselves. Wait, what? Yes. Charitable giving, or any other good deed going, triggers a feel-good endorphin rush for most people. 90%+ Of panhandlers are just using that to make a decent living. I have lived in areas where they worked, and I knew where they parked their cars. They have been my neighbors at times.

You'll notice my "get a job" was targeted at panhandlers playing a particular schtik. People dressed up as preachers (collars and the like), firemen, or similar. They are trying to act respectable, and usually claim to be collecting for a charity e.g. a veteran's group. Those people can't afford to get aggressive because it will cost them more donations than yours. You wouldn't want to respond the same way to a panhandler playing dirty bum or working a racial angle.

Other panhandlers can play the aggressive line...because some marks pay them to calm down. Shut up money. It works against people who are uncomfortable and easily embarrassed. And yeah, panhandlers go where the marks are. If you give them money, what does that make you? Where should they go?

The thing about panhandlers - true panhandlers - is that they are basically harmless. They are there because they want easy money. Once they know you aren't going to give a good ROI they move on. If you want fun, get into a sticky conversation with one and watch them try to disengage and get money from someone else.

The problem is the people that act like panhandlers but aren't. The ones who are distracting you for their teammate pickpocket, or worse. How does your method filter them out?

 

[BBQJOE]

Most times with these guys it's very simple. I've done it with panhandlers for years.
You see 'em coming. 99% of the time you know what they want.
Yelling stay back is stupid.
Just wait til they get up to you, make eye contact, and just as they start to open their mouth, ask if you can borrow a dollar.
It locks their brains up, and they walk away.

 

[Torian]

You should stick with whatever you are comfortable with.

I've dealt with panhandlers in the northeast (Phila and various bits of NJ), Texas, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. I doubt there is any sort of panhandler I haven't dealt with, including very aggressive ones, real criminals masquerading as panhandlers, and genuine homeless people in need of (mostly psychiatric) help "The System" just doesn't give just to name a few types.

Most panhandlers are professionals. They are in it for the money. They aren't substance abusers or homeless. They have figured out they can clear lots of money (a friend of mine averaged $150 a day in the 1990s, and claimed he sometimes saw $300+ a day) tax free for the service or making people feel better about themselves. Wait, what? Yes. Charitable giving, or any other good deed going, triggers a feel-good endorphin rush for most people. 90%+ Of panhandlers are just using that to make a decent living. I have lived in areas where they worked, and I knew where they parked their cars. They have been my neighbors at times.

You'll notice my "get a job" was targeted at panhandlers playing a particular schtik. People dressed up as preachers (collars and the like), firemen, or similar. They are trying to act respectable, and usually claim to be collecting for a charity e.g. a veteran's group. Those people can't afford to get aggressive because it will cost them more donations than yours. You wouldn't want to respond the same way to a panhandler playing dirty bum or working a racial angle.

Other panhandlers can play the aggressive line...because some marks pay them to calm down. Shut up money. It works against people who are uncomfortable and easily embarrassed. And yeah, panhandlers go where the marks are. If you give them money, what does that make you? Where should they go?

The thing about panhandlers - true panhandlers - is that they are basically harmless. They are there because they want easy money. Once they know you aren't going to give a good ROI they move on. If you want fun, get into a sticky conversation with one and watch them try to disengage and get money from someone else.

The problem is the people that act like panhandlers but aren't. The ones who are distracting you for their teammate pickpocket, or worse. How does your method filter them out?

I'm sad to say I treat them all as a threat. Of course, not to the point where I have a hand on my weapon, but enough that I'm already planning out the scenario in my head if it goes that route.

My paranoia has already been fueled enough by almost dying the last time I was in Afghanistan. Winning hearts and minds nearly got me killed by the very people we were trying to help. I'm just not interested in being that friendly to people trying to actively hit me up for money. It's who I am now...I don't let my guard down anymore. I don't know if you would call it PTSD or "combat adjustment phase"...I call it learning from your past mistakes. I hope for the best but plan for the worst now.

I do sometimes make exceptions for old homeless vets...our lost brothers. I used to see them frequently outside of Ft. Bliss when I was stationed there. They never walked up to your car, invaded your personal space, or talked to you. I respected that...and I think they did that because they knew how some people like me would respond to it. They just sat there with a sign, and the only thing they ever had to say was "God Bless you" if you gave them something.