Unpleasant experience at airport

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This is a pretty good thread as I have a similar experience....

This was in 1995 I just completed a 1 year tour in Korea in the Air Force! Before I left I was presented with my "plaque" from my shop chief! It was a glass enclosed inert 30 MM A10 tankbuster round fully polished with blue inert tip. It has a burgundy background with a brass plate in the middle with my dates of service, rank, and job title... It has the Korean flag and American flag on either side and it measures approx. 18" x 18" by 4" deep...

I decided to physically carry it in it's box with me on the flight home so it would not get destroyed! I first flew from Korea to Yokota AFB Japan, then from there to LAX. I was checked through customs in Japan and LAX and all they did was look at the plaque and comment on how nice it was! Then I flew to Las Vegas and had a several hour lay over there at which point I had to have my plaque checked by the new airline! once again they just glanced at it and I was on my way. Then I got to the Dallas/ Fort Worth airport!!!! :uhoh:

I had been traveling at this point for more than 24 hours without much sleep. I needed to have the new airline check my carry on, I approach the counter and before I even pulled out the plaque I explained that I was military and home on leave then I presented my I.D. card to the person at the counter. I told them that I had my plaque from Korea and it would be the only thing I was carrying on the plane with me. The person was very nice until I opened the box at which point they exclaimed loudly " Oh my God a missle!" I smiled and explained that it wasn't a missle but a big bullet that didn't have gunpowder in it or even a primer... I presented the person with some customs paperwork that I was given in Japan! They said that they were calling security! Security shows up and wants to take my plaque apart with a "leatherman" and I strongly advised him against it! I told him he could contact my supervisor and CO and they could explain to him what I was carrying! I explained that I had flown to Japan, LAX, and Las Vegas and had went through their customs without a hitch! He was adiment about taking apart my plaque! :banghead:

The whole time I could tell everyone was very nervous! Finally after a few supervisors and other employees of the airline looking at it they said call "Joe" he was in the military! This kid who looked like he was the janitor comes up and says "aw cool you got a inert 30 MM on your plaque" at which point he answered their questions as to it being dangerous or not! They told me I would have to check it and put it in the belly of the plane from Dallas to Lake Charles, which I reluctantly did! I could not believe how unprofessional they were, or the way I was treated! I had a copy of my orders, military I.D., I think I was wearing my dog tags but it took the word of some kids with a mop to send me on my way.... I'm not knocking him but I would think that having an officer look at it would be more appropriate! Why take the word of someone just because he was prior military? They wouldn't believe me and I was active duty!!

- Clint
 
RE: the mace,

I asked if she could mail it back to my place and she shook her head, saying she'd have to dispose of it.

Glenn Bartley, you may disagree but I think the person at the counter made the wrong decision at that point. It's not illegal for him to own that item, nor do regs say he has to declare it at the counter as long as it meets the restrictions. If you can walk around the terminal with it legally, she (being an airline employee, not security) has no authority to confiscate it. It might have been better for the poster to declare it, but as long as the TSA and airline regulations say he can check it . . .

I've accidentally carried scissors and the like through the TSA security screeners, and I've always been given the option of giving them to someone not flying, having them mailed back or placed in my checked luggage. If TSA can do it, why can't the airline?

jmm
 
Devonai said:
You got something against fat people?
Click to expand...

I was wondering the same thing. I didn't note much use of other descriptive adjectives, and those used weren't exactly important to the recounting of the story. I'd suppose that points should be given for using "corpulent" instead of "lard-ass" or the like, though...

FWIW, I had to fly with two guns for the first time last month (to and from Frontsight), and was treated with much more professionalism and courtesy than I expected. No hassles, they just had me wait while the TSA inspected my luggage in case they had any questions or neede me to unlock 'em for further inspection.

As re: ammo--I did doublecheck before going, and one can carry up to 11 lbs. of it (on Delta) as long as it's packaged separately from the firearms, and in either wood casing or the original factory packaging (no loose rounds).
 
fjolnirsson said:
The confiscation of mace makes perfect sense to me, since an aircraft is a sealed environment, and any discharge of mace would affect any passengers on the plane. That's not what I'm refering to. Not allowing mace on an aircraft is a sensible safety precaution.
Click to expand...

Eh? Been watching movies, Grasshopper?

Your statement could lead one to think you also believe in explosive decompression from a stray round or two. Commercial airliners are NOT a sealed environment. Do some reading, ask some questions and then, and only then, please do form an informed opinion.

Current commerical aircraft have what might be called a controlled bleed. What this means is that what keeps them pressurized is more air is pumped into the cabin than leeks out (fresh air, what a concept). IOW a discharge of mace in the passenger cabin probably would not effect all the passengers, and, most likely would NOT effect the pilot/crew cabin area.

Could your information source be an uninformed internet source? :)
 
are you in essence saying that people should abe allowed to arm themselves with mace while aboard a commercial passenger airliner? /QUOTE said:
People should be allowed to arm themselves with guns on airplanes. If the passengers on the 9/11 flights had been armed, those incidents never would have occurred.

We have the right to protect ourselves. No one should be allowed to take an individual's right to protect himself out of his hands and placed under someone else's authority. We should be allowed to be armed where ever we go, period. And I personally think that folks who don't think this should be so have very little faith in other people besides themselves. And I personally have faith in other people besides myself. If all of us here at THR for example flew somewhere together, I'd happily want all of us to be packing. Not to be stripped of our right for protection and herded onto the plane under the watchful eye of our loving, protecting government.
Click to expand...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjolnirsson
The confiscation of mace makes perfect sense to me, since an aircraft is a sealed environment, and any discharge of mace would affect any passengers on the plane. That's not what I'm refering to. Not allowing mace on an aircraft is a sensible safety precaution.

Eh? Been watching movies, Grasshopper?

Your statement could lead one to think you also believe in explosive decompression from a stray round or two. Commercial airliners are NOT a sealed environment. Do some reading, ask some questions and then, and only then, please do form an informed opinion.

Current commerical aircraft have what might be called a controlled bleed. What this means is that what keeps them pressurized is more air is pumped into the cabin than leeks out (fresh air, what a concept). IOW a discharge of mace in the passenger cabin probably would not effect all the passengers, and, most likely would NOT effect the pilot/crew cabin area.

Could your information source be an uninformed internet source?
Click to expand...

Mmmm, sorry, brain fart. I don't know why I said sealed. I didn't mean sealed, as in no airflow in or out. What I was refering to was the recirculation of air. As in your ground car is a "sealed" unit. Fresh air does get in and stale air is let out, but it isn't like pepper spraying someone outdoors, or even in a large venue. The air circulates throughout the area. If you've ever been in a patrol car with a peppered suspect, you know what I mean. The irritant doesn't stay where it's put(although pepper is better in that regard than mace). Just seems like a bad idea for folks to be carrying OC on a plane, since we never know who's going to be affected by it.
As I said, I can see the case being made for prohibition of OC on planes. Doesn't mean I agree with it. Hope I didn't come off that way.
 
Eh? Been watching movies, Grasshopper?
Click to expand...
HEY! Thats MY line on this forum! :neener:
People should be allowed to arm themselves with guns on airplanes. If the passengers on the 9/11 flights had been armed, those incidents never would have occurred.
Click to expand...
+100 The ONLY requirement I can reasonably see would be for the ammuntion in passengers firearms to certified by an independent NON-GOVERNMENT body as Airframe Safe, perhaps non-sparking frangable ammo. And ONLY at the behest of the airline in question.
 
Typical stupidity that is totaly uncalled for. This is the kind of crap I simply couldn't put up with I would turn around go home call the airline and inform them why I and my closest friends would not be flying agian unless they fired their idiot employee. If I can drive I prefer too. Mor expensive with the gas sometimes, and a car rental ontop of that sometimes...but much less hassle and BS.

To hell with taking guns. You want safe issue one gun and two loaded mag to everyone getting on the plane like 3D glasses at a 3D movie.
 
I have been transporting firearms on airlines for over 25 years. I am convinced that the current crop of airline employees and TSA employees are in their current positions only because they were too stupid to get a job at McDonalds. It is disgraceful and embarrassing. It is also an encouragement to terrorists who will get a free pass because TSA is too busy searching grandma.
 
Hmmm... for some reason, people on this thread think I have a problem with fat people. The answer to that is no. I have a problem with stupid fat people. Mostly just stupid people. However, when someone pisses me off, I'm more inclined to pick out their particular flaws then I would otherwise.

Another person said that I violated the law and FAA regulations by carrying the Mace and just because I got away with it before doesnt make it right. Ok, whatever. But the obvious point here is that I carried the Mace in plain view along with the ammunition in a locked, padded security box along with the gun. When the gun was declared all of these items were inspected before they were placed on the airplane. All this means was
a.) All of the other TSA personnel were ignorant of TSA regulations.
b.) The TSA personnel didnt care about TSA regulations.
c.) TSA regulations are so hard to understand that they didnt KNOW whether it was a permissible item or not.

These two websites, both operated by the TSA, contradict each other on the pepper spray issue.
http://www.tsa.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/Prohibited_English_4-1-2005_v2.pdf
http://www.tsa.gov/public/interweb/assetlibrary/Permitted_Prohibited_NEW.pdf

The mace I had was in one of the small palm sized units with the flip up cover, so you can't accidently discharge it. No claims that the can was unsafe :b

I wonder if after this incident I'll be delayed at airplane check points from now on for further searches. :fire:
 
Sometimes it seems to me that the degree of hassle one faces at airports is often proportional to the attitude one projects ... and possibly, the airports one flies through. I fly a lot, and always with firearms, and I simply try to get through the process calmly and act as though it's the most natural thing in the world to be checking at least two handguns (and sometimes a rifle such as an AR) through the airline counter and the TSA folks ... Never had a problem at any major airport in the country. Some airports are really proficient at checking guns through (Sea-Tac comes to mind), some just about average. Yeah, it's a minor hassle, but it seems one of the things is to stay cool, treat the screeners (no matter how fat or stupid) courteously ... I've seen folks go through the screeners with a big chip on their shoulders, acting as though they expected to be hassled, snapping at the screeners even when given a calm, polite request ... sure enough, these folks get hassled.

I may be wrong, but I think most folks who fly frequently know the drill and usually don't have any problems; those who don't fly a lot and expect a hassle, seem inclined to find hassles.
 
Sindawe said:
HEY! Thats MY line on this forum! :neener: +100 The ONLY requirement I can reasonably see would be for the ammuntion in passengers firearms to certified by an independent NON-GOVERNMENT body as Airframe Safe, perhaps non-sparking frangable ammo. And ONLY at the behest of the airline in question.
Click to expand...


I think that's reasonable.
 
IndianaDean said:
People should be allowed to arm themselves with guns on airplanes. If the passengers on the 9/11 flights had been armed, those incidents never would have occurred.

We have the right to protect ourselves. No one should be allowed to take an individual's right to protect himself out of his hands and placed under someone else's authority. We should be allowed to be armed where ever we go, period. And I personally think that folks who don't think this should be so have very little faith in other people besides themselves. And I personally have faith in other people besides myself. If all of us here at THR for example flew somewhere together, I'd happily want all of us to be packing. Not to be stripped of our right for protection and herded onto the plane under the watchful eye of our loving, protecting government.
Click to expand...

Well, you can count me as someone who doesn't want CCWs on planes. As I said in this thread six months ago, allowing CCWs is a bad idea (and yes, I've now re-set my watch again. This topic comes up every couple of months, and I've come to use it to set my watch.) If you're going to allow CCWs, please answer the questions I asked here. If anyone is interested in my detailed views, you can run through the entire thread, but in short, the average CCWer doesn't have anywhere near the skills to take the kind of shots your assuming everyone could make, no one--not one--has been able to tell me how you'd tell the difference between a law-abiding CCWer and a terrorist with a legally acquired CCW, and the government ain't gonna let it happen anyway. The passengers and crew on an airplane are, unfortunately, expendable. You can accept this and fly, or not accept this and drive.

You imply that we have an absolute right to protect ourselves. This is not true. You cannot carry into a courthouse or polling place. Here in AZ, you cannot carry into a restaurant that serves alcohol. We accept these exceptions to where we're allowed to carry our own means of self-defense. An airplane, IMO, is no different.

And let's remember. The government isn't "herding" anyone onto a plane. Passengers buy their tickets of their own free will. Those tickets come with conditions--one of them being that you'll be checked for weapons before boarding. Again, you can accept this, or not.
 
You imply that we have an absolute right to protect ourselves. This is not true. You cannot carry into a courthouse or polling place. Here in AZ, you cannot carry into a restaurant that serves alcohol. We accept these exceptions to where we're allowed to carry our own means of self-defense. An airplane, IMO, is no different.

And let's remember. The government isn't "herding" anyone onto a plane. Passengers buy their tickets of their own free will. Those tickets come with conditions--one of them being that you'll be checked for weapons before boarding. Again, you can accept this, or not.
Click to expand...

An absolute right is a right that exists despite any law or majority. I think you're getting confused here. The right to defend yourself exists regardless of where you are. The right to carry weapons is what is prohibited in those places that you mention. And no, we dont all accept those exceptions.

The government forces airlines and people to conform to their rules if they choose to take the most convenient, and in many cases, the only reasonable means of transportation.

Your line of reasoning goes: The people choose to go on an airplane. The government chooses to apply an unconstitutional and ridiculous system of searches and restrictions to any person wishing to go on an airplane. Therefore, such restrictions and searches are right. The government could apply such a system of searches and restrictions anywhere they pleased. They could put it on street corners or public highways. What would your response be then?

Lets use the same line of reasoning. People CHOOSE to use public highways and street corners. Therefore, the government is right in searching and restricting them.

Ridiculous. Even more so when you consider that airlines do not even constitute a government run industry. They are private enterprises.
 
Devonai said:
You got something against fat people?
Click to expand...

Oh my Goddess I sure hope not. I am a fat woman. Gun Wielding Maniac is who introduced me to guns, THR and has been teaching me how to shoot. I would not be on this forum if not for him.

What I have gotten from the responses is that if someone does have to fly and check a gun bring along the most up to date listing of what can and can not be carried or checked so if something happens you have the info to back up what you are saying. Sad that the passengers have to educate the workers but seems that is the case.

Also need to try and not get upset even when being hassled. Everyone can have a bad day. I work call center, I know. Just hard to not take things personal when the yelling or harrassment is being aimed at you. Better training in customer service and screening procedures would so help things.

Demariana
 
Demariana said:
Oh my Goddess I sure hope not. I am a fat woman. Gun Wielding Maniac is who introduced me to guns, THR and has been teaching me how to shoot. I would not be on this forum if not for him.

What I have gotten from the responses is that if someone does have to fly and check a gun bring along the most up to date listing of what can and can not be carried or checked so if something happens you have the info to back up what you are saying. Sad that the passengers have to educate the workers but seems that is the case.

Also need to try and not get upset even when being hassled. Everyone can have a bad day. I work call center, I know. Just hard to not take things personal when the yelling or harrassment is being aimed at you. Better training in customer service and screening procedures would so help things.

Demariana
Click to expand...

Exactly.
  • Check for your airline's policy on checking weapons. It'll be on their website. Read, follow and print out their own policy to show to the staff at the airport, if need be.
  • Do the same thing for the TSA policy on checked weapons.
  • Be polite to everyone you deal with.
  • Show up early enough to deal with any problems that might come up.
Many people every day fly successfully with their weapons. It is quite frustrating when a passenger runs up against a ticket agent or TSA employee who doesn't know what they're doing, and it typically makes news here. Please also keep in mind that much of the industry is either in or very near bankruptcy. Many employees have seen their pay cut, their pensions lost, and might not be in the best mood generally about their job. I don't offer this isn't an excuse for poor customer service, just to add some context to why people aren't terribly happy about things.
 
Gun Wielding Maniac said:
An absolute right is a right that exists despite any law or majority. I think you're getting confused here. The right to defend yourself exists regardless of where you are. The right to carry weapons is what is prohibited in those places that you mention. And no, we dont all accept those exceptions.

The government forces airlines and people to conform to their rules if they choose to take the most convenient, and in many cases, the only reasonable means of transportation.

Your line of reasoning goes: The people choose to go on an airplane. The government chooses to apply an unconstitutional and ridiculous system of searches and restrictions to any person wishing to go on an airplane. Therefore, such restrictions and searches are right. The government could apply such a system of searches and restrictions anywhere they pleased. They could put it on street corners or public highways. What would your response be then?

Lets use the same line of reasoning. People CHOOSE to use public highways and street corners. Therefore, the government is right in searching and restricting them.

Ridiculous. Even more so when you consider that airlines do not even constitute a government run industry. They are private enterprises.
Click to expand...
I don't like all the laws related to CCW (and restricting CCWs from airplanes is one I support), but do accept them. To do otherwise would mean I'd get to pick and choose which aspects fit me, and which I could ignore. The laws which restrict CCW on planes and other places are put in place by the elected representatives of the people--not some unresponsive .gov. These laws have been constitutionally tested. "Streetcorner" searches have been shown to be fishing expeditions, and have no such legal backing. That airlines are private enterprises and not government industries has no bearing. Banks are private too, and must follow banking law (including the reporting of certain financial transactions to the government). Airlines, like banks and every other kind of business, must follow the laws which regulate them.
 
This thread is why I drive. If I'm going somewhere too far to drive - I don't go.

The one time I have flown since 9/11 and dealt with TSA I will say it's better than Punjab and his merry band of turban wearing fellow scanner operators were in the pre-9/11 days. TSA seems to have replaced them with people who can speak English, which is a plus IMHO.
 
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