"Unregistered ammunition?"

[Gary Slider]

In DC you have to have a permit to own a firearm. You can only have ammunition for the firearms you have the permit/s for. Here is the DC Code for some of the questions posted in this thread.


§ 7-2501.01. Definitions

(2) "Ammunition" means cartridge cases, shells, projectiles (including shot), primers, bullets (including restricted pistol bullets), propellant powder, or other devices or materials designed, redesigned, or intended for use in a firearm or destructive device.


§ 7-2506.01. Persons Permitted to Possess Ammunition

(a) No person shall possess ammunition in the District of Columbia unless:
(1) He is a licensed dealer pursuant to subchapter IV of this unit;
(2) He is an officer, agent, or employee of the District of Columbia or the United States of America, on duty and acting within the scope of his duties when possessing such ammunition;
(3) He is the holder of a valid registration certificate for a firearm pursuant to subchapter II of this chapter; except, that no such person shall possess restricted pistol bullets;
(4) He holds an ammunition collector's certificate on September 24, 1976; or
(5) He temporarily possesses ammunition while participating in a firearms training and safety class conducted by a firearms instructor. Apr. 27, 2013, D.C. Law 19-295, § 2(c), 60 DCR 2623.)


Title 24 Chpt 23 2343 Ammunition Carried by Licensee

2343.1 A person issued a concealed carry license by the Chief, while carrying the pistol, shall not carry more ammunition than is required to fully load the pistol twice, and in no event shall that amount be greater than twenty (20) rounds of ammunition.
(I read this to mean if you carry a 5 shot revolver you can only carry 5 spare rounds. If you have a 10 round mag and one in the chamber of an auto loader you can only carry 9 extra rounds in your spare mag as that brings the total to 20.)

 

[Hardtarget]

All this is why I will never visit DC or NYC....not 'till he!! freezes over.

Mark

 

[Crawdad1]

An adult "gun-guy" who lives in PA and is not very aware that DC is a no-gun zone?

Nah ... I don't buy it ... or that it is a simple "oops" on his part.

All of us gun-people within travel range of DC know that, at a bare minimum, it is a place to NOT take a firearm.

Something else is at play here ...

I think I see a Supreme Court case being born here.

 

[Coyote3855]

Thanks to Slider for inserting actual facts into this discussion. I'm grateful every time I gun up that I live in Wyoming. And have no desire ever again go east of our border with Nebraska.

 

[Acera]

So according to the law, even a shell casing is illegal.

This bottle opener could result in a criminal charge since it was once a real .50BMG cartridge??

smh.................



.

 

[mljdeckard]

I need to pause to go register all of my religious books and printer paper.

 

[coloradokevin]

I have long heard that possession of an empty cartridge case w/o a permit is a criminal violation in New York, especially NYC.*

Wasn't there a case where D.C. argued in court that lead balls for muzzleloaders were ammunition and required possession of a firearms license?

Yes, boys and girls, there are parts of the the USA where possession of empty cartridge cases** and round lead balls is a criminal violation, when it is perfectly legal in most of the US. Not even getting to the subject of live ammunition.

To be in criminal violation of these malum prohibitum laws you don't have to do any acts that are malum in se. Prohibitions make criminals of people who have done no acts harmful to others. The prohibitionists pretend their restrictions prevent bads acts by bad people when they simply don't. As most comments in this thread demonstrate, it does the dignity of the law no good to pass useless or harmful legislation.

___________________________
* I suggested to my son when he and the DIL were going to Niagra Falls NY and Canada that they get a rental car. We used his truck as a benchrest on the mountain and there are probably cartridge cases in unknown places all over that truck. BTW (a) the rental car had much better gas mileage and (b) they found Canadian hospitality friendly just like Southern hospitality but a different accent.

** .17 Mag empties held in pliers make great disposable punches for making extra holes in leather belts or straps using a tent peg mallet and old phonebook for backing. My leather repair kit includes .17 Mag empties.

That sounds about right for NYC. NYC is a whole different level of stupid.

I flew out of LaGuardia a few years ago after a trip to NYC. Because of my job, I have federal authority to carry a firearm, even in restrictive places like NYC. Nevertheless, carrying a firearm on the airplane itself is still a hassle beyond which I was dealing with on that flight, so I was checking the firearm in baggage like anyone else would. Anyway, when I got to the ticket counter at the airport I told the nice lady that I was checking a firearm in a bag, and I even added the fact that I was LE since I knew NYC was wired a bit differently.

The ticketing agent looked a bit bewildered, and almost like she felt a bit sad for me. But, since she mostly just stood there with a stupid blank look on her face, I eventually tried to prompt her by saying: "you probably need to call the TSA to screen that bag" (which is what they do in every other airport). She snapped back about how "actually, we need to call the police". She then walked down to another computer terminal, picked up the phone, and cupped the receiver to her mouth as if to keep secret whatever it is she was saying.

My wife was with me on this trip, and I told her that I was beginning to think that this procedure was going to be much different than what we'd experienced at every other airport. And, sure enough, about two minutes later I had three Port Authority cops converging on my location as if they were pursuing a bank robber. The ensuing charade of nonsense would hardly make sense to anyone who has lived in free America, but it took about half an hour for them to thoroughly examine every aspect of my gun, ammo, reason for having the gun, and my credentials.

Among other things, they insisted on knowing:

1) Make and model of the gun.
2) Serial number of the gun.
3) Type of ammo I was carrying.
4) How many rounds of ammo I was carrying.
5) How many magazines I was carrying.
6) They recorded my full name, DL number, address, and home phone number.
7) They wanted my agency credentials as well as my badge.
8) They wanted my agency address, phone number, supervisor's name.

After this nonsense continued for half an hour I was finally getting short on patience (I knew I was legal, and I had a plane to catch). I finally (politely) asked one of the cops if there was some sort of problem. At this point he just kind of gave me an answer like: "Nope, you're in LE so it's not a problem, but people come here all the time and think you're allowed to own a gun in NYC." I politely reminded him that the 2nd Amendment to the constitution might lead someone to think that was the case. He thanked me for my time, and off I went on my way.

When I got home that night I was still a bit bewildered by this whole encounter, and I decided to research NYC gun laws. That place is insane! Not only is it a felony to possess a gun without a permit, you actually have to have a specific NYC permit (so a New York STATE CCW holder could still be arrested if they didn't also have a NYC permit). And, they charge the crime as a Class C felony (which as best I can tell is their equivalent of what we charge for an armed robbery here in my state).

The scariest part is that there have been cases where people with connecting flight through LaGuardia have ended up stuck in NYC because of a flight cancellation, and have been put up in a hotel by their airline (remember, these are people who had no plans to stay in NYC at all). When they return to the airport to check their bag the next day, they end up being arrested and charged with a felony for possessing an unregistered firearm.

 

[Jack B.]

In DC you have to have a permit to own a firearm. You can only have ammunition for the firearms you have the permit/s for. Here is the DC Code for some of the questions posted in this thread.


§ 7-2501.01. Definitions

(2) "Ammunition" means cartridge cases, shells, projectiles (including shot), primers, bullets (including restricted pistol bullets), propellant powder, or other devices or materials designed, redesigned, or intended for use in a firearm or destructive device.


§ 7-2506.01. Persons Permitted to Possess Ammunition

(a) No person shall possess ammunition in the District of Columbia unless:
(1) He is a licensed dealer pursuant to subchapter IV of this unit;
(2) He is an officer, agent, or employee of the District of Columbia or the United States of America, on duty and acting within the scope of his duties when possessing such ammunition;
(3) He is the holder of a valid registration certificate for a firearm pursuant to subchapter II of this chapter; except, that no such person shall possess restricted pistol bullets;
(4) He holds an ammunition collector's certificate on September 24, 1976; or
(5) He temporarily possesses ammunition while participating in a firearms training and safety class conducted by a firearms instructor. Apr. 27, 2013, D.C. Law 19-295, § 2(c), 60 DCR 2623.)


Title 24 Chpt 23 2343 Ammunition Carried by Licensee

2343.1 A person issued a concealed carry license by the Chief, while carrying the pistol, shall not carry more ammunition than is required to fully load the pistol twice, and in no event shall that amount be greater than twenty (20) rounds of ammunition.
(I read this to mean if you carry a 5 shot revolver you can only carry 5 spare rounds. If you have a 10 round mag and one in the chamber of an auto loader you can only carry 9 extra rounds in your spare mag as that brings the total to 20.)

I see D.C. has eased up on their restrictions since Heller. The Capitol of our nation. The Home Of The Free. What a joke this place is.

 

[alsaqr]

All of us gun-people within travel range of DC know that, at a bare minimum, it is a place to NOT take a firearm.

i totally agree. The far away Texans and Okies know that one.

 

[alsaqr]

When they return to the airport to check their bag the next day, they end up being arrested and charged with a felony for possessing an unregistered firearm.

My flight to Maine got re-routed through the place. Yes, i refused to claim my baggage. Told the airline to send my baggage to my destination in Maine. No toothbrush or fresh skivvies but infinitely better than jail.

 

[herrwalther]

That sounds about right for NYC. NYC is a whole different level of stupid.

I grew up in upstate NY, far away from the city. And that was still bad enough. I didn't even hold a real firearm until I was in college in the neighboring state of Vermont. I had a flight rerouted through JFK airport and I didn't even THINK about retrieving my checked bag at the terminal to board a changed flight. My girlfriend had bought me 3 handguns for a birthday present I was bringing back with me.

Cases like this out of DC, NY, NJ, CA and a handful of others make me glad of the places I have chosen to live. And even more importantly, the importance of knowing state law when we travel. A junior soldier of mine went to prison in NJ for a rather long time because of a firearm he left in the glove box of his car. Legal in VT, felony in NJ. Now he is not allowed to own firearms ever again.

 

[GAF]

IMHO anyone going into places like DC , New York City /state with guns and ammo in plain sight either don`t care or have a problem with the connections in the executive reasoning centers of their brain. Otherwise it may be that they have evil intent.
Probably don`t understand that when in Rome cliché

 

[ironworkerwill]

I suppose I was breaking some sort of law just traveling through DC. I didn't have a firearm but the cellulose in my jeans could have been used to costruct ammunition. I'm glad I didn't get caught.

 

[Mike OTDP]

About the only good news is that if you aren't going into D.C. itself, you can avoid the swamp. The three airports are all outside the boundaries. And the interstates go around.

 

[Deanimator]

I'm glad I live in a free state, it's not worth any amount of money to live in a state that strips it's citizens of their freedoms

I've been amazed by the number of "gun owners" who would EAGERLY make that trade. Hell, I had "gun owners" in Chicago tell me that "good pizza" was worth not being able to own a handgun when the ban was in effect.

They and those like them happily volunteer that "There's more to life than guns."... to which you can add:

• freedom of speech
• freedom of religion
• freedom of association
• freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures
• freedom from cruel and unusual punishments

There are more than a few people who'd willingly live under sharia law if they could eat at Pizzeria Uno and watch the Bulls, never mind give up their guns.

 

[Reloadron]

While not Washington DC I was NYC born and raised. Normally once a year my wife and I make an annual treck back to the Big Apple for a reunion and gathering on the beach. I actually go through what I call a "sanitizing" process before each trip making sure no as much as a single empty shell casing is in whichever truck we decide to take. Got stopped one year on a parkway and for those unaware a parkway is no commercial or truck traffic so even a SUV truck with commercial plates would be illegal. We had a Suburban and a curious cop just had to run a stop on us. He asked as he peered into windows if I had any guns and I told him nope. Then he asked if I owned any guns and I said enough. What I own is none of the state's business. He got his run on my plates back and let us go but places like NYC and DC can be real chop busters and they love to say acting on a tip or some lie to that effect. Two places I lived when I was young were NY and CA and I will never live in either again.

Ron

 

[jmorris]

I always have the phone number of the State police in my cell phone before I begin travel, because I save it when I call to learn if there is anything I need to know about before hand.

It's free at that time, not so much after you get caught doing something illegal.

 

[Reloadron]

I always have the phone number of the State police in my cell phone before I begin travel, because I save it when I call to learn if there is anything I need to know about before hand.

It's free at that time, not so much after you get caught doing something illegal.

Yeah, wise to check out state laws along the planned route before the trip.

Ron

 

[JTHunter]

In 1964, my family went to the World's Fair in NYC and came back through D.C. I was too young to know anything else then but, with what I have learned over the years, there is NOTHING that could entice me to go back to either one.

 

[Alec]

I always have the phone number of the State police in my cell phone before I begin travel, because I save it when I call to learn if there is anything I need to know about before hand.

It's free at that time, not so much after you get caught doing something illegal.

From my personal experience with New Jersey, I can say that the state police do not always know all of the firearms laws, nor do they seem to care to.

 

[jmorris]

From my personal experience with New Jersey, I can say that the state police do not always know all of the firearms laws,

All the more reason to have the contact information of the person you spoke to in your phone before any issue may present itself.

 

[Alec]

All the more reason to have the contact information of the person you spoke to in your phone before any issue may present itself.

How would that matter, though? Can the statement of a trooper over the phone be used to defend yourself in court?

If he told you to go rob a bank I hardly believe you'd be able to justify it in court even if you had a recording of the statement. The only thing that matters is the text of the law and (more importantly) how it's interpreted by a court.

 

[ironworkerwill]

How would that matter, though? Can the statement of a trooper over the phone be used to defend yourself in court?

If he told you to go rob a bank I hardly believe you'd be able to justify it in court even if you had a recording of the statement. The only thing that matters is the text of the law and (more importantly) how it's interpreted by a court.

You have a valid point. The jack wagon you spoke with on the phone could be full-o-crap.

 

[jmorris]

How would that matter, though? Can the statement of a trooper over the phone be used to defend yourself in court?

If you can say "I spoke with Captain Blah Blah of the New Jersey State police at 609-882-2000 extension 3428, and he already informed me of my responsibilities and exactly what I needed to do to conform with New Jersey laws before we started our trip." The fact that you know one of his superiors by name, the number to the main office and an extension. Might have him question his knowledge or lack there of on the subject that you obviously studied up on before you got in the car.

The object of the game is to never end up in court or arrested in the first place. It costs nothing to arm yourself with more information before hand.

Or are you saying that just hopping in the car and blindly doing whatever you want to do is a better idea?

 

[Alec]

If you can say "I spoke with Captain Blah Blah of the New Jersey State police at 609-882-2000 extension 3428, and he already informed me of my responsibilities and exactly what I needed to do to conform with New Jersey laws before we started our trip." The fact that you know one of his superiors by name, the number to the main office and an extension. Might have him question his knowledge or lack there of on the subject that you obviously studied up on before you got in the car.

The object of the game is to never end up in court or arrested in the first place. It costs nothing to arm yourself with more information before hand.

Or are you saying that just hopping in the car and blindly doing whatever you want to do is a better idea?

No, it's certainly better than going blind, and it's an ounce of prevention that is quick and simple. But I do want people to be aware that the information they are being armed with may be inaccurate in subtle ways, and not necessarily due to malice or incompetence on the part of the state troopers (it can easily be a miscommunication).

An example: Being told "no, hollowpoints are not illegal in NJ" is a correct statement in the context of a resident with an FID going to/from a range or for possession at home. If you're from out of state, however, you are running afoul of NJ law and are looking at a felony.