Update, Rem 700 slamfire

[Hugger-4641]

Ok, I know this is old news for some of you, but it was new to me when I experienced it first hand. I'm sharing for the safety of those not familiar with this issue.
My original thread was closed, so here is my update:

I was not able to recreate the firing pin dropping by tapping on the side of the receiver. But when I removed the action and barrel from the stock and tapped directly on the side of the action, I was able to recreate it. This was done with bolt closed and safey off.

I did replace the bad trigger with a newer one from another member here. I did check it out thoroughly. Sear engagement and overtravel were already set correctly, pull weight was just under 3lb and I adjusted that to 3-1/2.

Here's what I found about the offending trigger as pictured:

1. This trigger had the punch mark on the bolt release button, which means it was supposedly corrected under the recall.

2. The adjustment screw for trigger pull did not have any glue and was backed down to less than 2lbs. This tells me someone has tinkered with it.

3. The sear engagement was barely enough to function. I didn't have the tools to measure precisely, but using cut pieces of brass as a gauge, it appeared to be less than 0.010"

4. Hard to see in the pic, but the corner of the sear engagement is worn, probably due to being set incorrectly for a long time.

I have advised my friend that he still needs to buy an upgraded trigger, but I'm confident that his gun is now safe for the foreseeable future.

This experience has changed the way I will approach some things from here on out. Specifically, any Rem 700 I agree to sight in for someone is getting dismantled and trigger examined thoroughly before anything else is done.

Also, this trigger has been dismantled permanently. I'm saving the springs and other reusable parts, but it will never be able to be used in another gun.

 

[Bazoo]

I live under a rock. This is the first have heard of it. There was a recall? I'll have to research some if I get into a 700. Thanks.

I'm glad you have it sorted out and you're buddies gun is safe.

 

[Hugger-4641]

There was a recall, but now that Remarms is a different company, they are not honoring any previous warranty or re-calls. I checked to be sure before tackling this myself.

 

[Slamfire]

Thank you for your report, and hopefully I can remember to find this thread and reference it.

I have had enough trigger over rides, that I really don't trust the standard trigger over ride mechanism. This is a typical single stage trigger,



it is more like a trap door mechanism than anything else. Just kick out the prop, but if you look at the amount of metal between sear surfaces, it is barely the thickness of a sheet of paper. And I don't trust these things, as sears wear, and sears break.

Another reason I don't trust sear blocking safeties found on many pistol types



The only thing holding the firing mechanism back are some thin sear and hammer surfaces, which can be jarred off, or will fail due to sear wear, or if the sear breaks. All of which has happened.

The stupid sear blocking safety in a Rem M721 or M700 has caused lots of accidental discharges. A shooting bud said, "I know of two hardware store new Rem M720's that fired through the floor boad of a Hudson when the safeties were released" I think the incident was on the same hunting trip, two hunters came back with their hardware store new Remington's, and both put holes in the floor board of the same car when they unloaded their rifles!

these things don't happen, do they?



I don't know the best way to keep a M720/M721/M700 trigger from failing. I do believe that congealed oil will cause the mechanism to go unsafe. I much prefer rifle safeties that cam the firing pin back, and hold it, though, if the sear has failed, the firing pin will go forward once the firing pin safety is removed.

 

[Hugger-4641]

You are correct, which is why I told my friend that he needs to get a Timney or TriggerTech or something better than the stock Rem trigger.
But to be honest, if the Rem triggers are cleaned of all factory grease, cleaned and maintained properly, and not adjusted by folks who don't understand them, then they are safe in my opinion. But those are a lot of "ifs".

 

[Slamfire]

You are correct, which is why I told my friend that he needs to get a Timney or TriggerTech or something better than the stock Rem trigger.
But to be honest, if the Rem triggers are cleaned of all factory grease, cleaned and maintained properly, and not adjusted by folks who don't understand them, then they are safe in my opinion. But those are a lot of "ifs".

I know. I have an early M700 and I have not replaced the trigger. But it has a known defect, and I don't like that. I much prefer the M70 with the original trigger, and the three position safety that allows the cartridge to be extracted with the firing pin held to the rear.





I have not taken my M700 out in the woods, but I am sure I would not walk to the stand with a round in the chamber. And I would not walk out with a round in the chamber. I would point the thing at the ground, away from everyone and everything, when I unload it.

I have a later M700, with the "safe" trigger and I don't like it. The original Remington safety locked the bolt down. I have had brush knock a bolt up, I prefer a positive lock down. The "safe" mechanism does not keep the bolt down. I don't like that.

 

[Hugger-4641]

From what I've researched, there are two different failures that occur with these. The "slam fire" is what I experienced. I was pushing the bolt forward and as I rotated the handle the fire pin released and fired the round. I'm fairly certain this was due to the worn sear and minimal engagement since the trigger did still have some overtravel and enough back tension to make it reset.

The other type of failure is firing pin releasing when the safety is moved forward to "fire" position. I didn't experience this one and couldn't re-create it. I think this one has more to do with cold temps and the grease they used at the factory.
Any other insight is welcomed.

 

[dh1633pm]

Did the trigger I sent help?

 

[Hugger-4641]

Did the trigger I sent help?

Yes it did, thanks again!

 

[P89DCSS]

The original thread that got closed convinced me to buy a Trigger Tech replacement trigger for my current 700/308 project. There's too much bad juju around Remington 700 triggers. I'm comfortable spending $150 to avoid any issues going forward.

 

[BobABQ]

After reading several articles about the Remington trigger issue I sent Remington an email with my rifle's serial number and simply asked them if my rifle was affected.

They said that it wasn't but when found a Timney trigger on sale I bought one anyway and swapped out my OEM trigger. I am very happy with the new trigger and I don't need to worry about the Remington trigger.
I now have peace of mind now so it was worth the money for a new trigger plus it feels much nicer than the OEM trigger.

To each their own but if you have a Remington 700 and you are concerned then just replace the trigger and be happy.

 

[Seedy Character]

I have a rifle that was part of the recall.
I have not replaced the trigger. I have not had problems. A good friend, who is a professional gunsmith, told me how to positively test the trigger/safety. My test exposed no problem. A hunting buddy of my son, has 2 rifles pass and 1 fail.

However, I probably will replace the trigger with a Timney. One of the grandsons will get that rifle, one day and the recall will be long forgotten.

I am a fan of Timney. So, they will likely get the job.

 

[lightman]

I have a rifle that was part of the recall.

However, I probably will replace the trigger with a Timney. One of the grandsons will get that rifle, one day and the recall will be long forgotten.

I am a fan of Timney. So, they will likely the job.

Thats a good way to think, thinking ahead like that!

 

[Varminterror]

Now that Remington is out of business, I expect Timney’s stock price to absolutely plummet.

 

[Hugger-4641]

Oh, they are back in business as Remarms. I don't know if they have produced any rifles yet. Hopefully they just source triggers for new rifles from Timney or TriggerTech.

 

[Varminterror]

Oh, they are back in business as Remarms. I don't know if they have produced any rifles yet. Hopefully they just source triggers for new rifles from Timney or TriggerTech.

The Remington arms brand and assets were bought by a couple of slick wheelers with a relatively shady and unsuccessful past in paintball markers… there are prettier girls at the dance with less baggage.

 

[PO2Hammer]

Great, bought a 700 BDL in 300 BLK recently, it has the dimpled bolt release, but it’s hard to trust Rem’s clean and inspect with such a thing.
Looks like I need a new trigger.

 

[Hugger-4641]

Until you can replace it, I would remove it, use solvent, and blow it out real good with compressed air.
Some "experts" say not to lube the trigger, but I did use some CLP on this one since I know it's not going to see any temperatures near or below 0.

 

[Hugger-4641]

I have a rifle that was part of the recall.
I have not replaced the trigger. I have not had problems. A good friend, who is a professional gunsmith, told me how to positively test the trigger/safety. My test exposed no problem. A hunting buddy of my son, has 2 rifles pass and 1 fail.

However, I probably will replace the trigger with a Timney. One of the grandsons will get that rifle, one day and the recall will be long forgotten.

I am a fan of Timney. So, they will likely get the job.

I have two 700's that were not part of the recall and I'm still going to change them. A $180 trigger is cheap insurance that my grandson or someone else doesn't end up with my rifle and have an accident.

 

[Picher]

Thank you for your report, and hopefully I can remember to find this thread and reference it.

I have had enough trigger over rides, that I really don't trust the standard trigger over ride mechanism. This is a typical single stage trigger,

View attachment 1047907

it is more like a trap door mechanism than anything else. Just kick out the prop, but if you look at the amount of metal between sear surfaces, it is barely the thickness of a sheet of paper. And I don't trust these things, as sears wear, and sears break.

Another reason I don't trust sear blocking safeties found on many pistol types

View attachment 1047908

The only thing holding the firing mechanism back are some thin sear and hammer surfaces, which can be jarred off, or will fail due to sear wear, or if the sear breaks. All of which has happened.

The stupid sear blocking safety in a Rem M721 or M700 has caused lots of accidental discharges. A shooting bud said, "I know of two hardware store new Rem M720's that fired through the floor boad of a Hudson when the safeties were released" I think the incident was on the same hunting trip, two hunters came back with their hardware store new Remington's, and both put holes in the floor board of the same car when they unloaded their rifles!

these things don't happen, do they?



I don't know the best way to keep a M720/M721/M700 trigger from failing. I do believe that congealed oil will cause the mechanism to go unsafe. I much prefer rifle safeties that cam the firing pin back, and hold it, though, if the sear has failed, the firing pin will go forward once the firing pin safety is removed.

Hazard: Bullets won't go through floorboards if chambers are double-checked to be EMPTY before getting into the vehicles! It's bad enough that the blind pistol magazine is loaded, but no rifle or shotgun goes into MY vehicle with a round in the chamber!!! All actions are OPEN and empty!

 

[Hugger-4641]

Hazard: Bullets won't go through floorboards if chambers are double-checked to be EMPTY before getting into the vehicles! It's bad enough that the blind pistol magazine is loaded, but no rifle or shotgun goes into MY vehicle with a round in the chamber!!! All actions are OPEN and empty!

I'm sure it has happened to some, but my incident did not involve a vehicle.
I was on my private range, pointed safely, it was cold out, I loaded the mag and closed the bolt. Safety was on, forearm in my left hand, bolt firmly in my right hand, as I rotated the bolt handle closed, it went off.

 

[jmr40]

There are 2 separate issues.

The rifles made 1946-2006 had a flawed trigger design. Any of those rifles could discharge with no trigger pull if internal parts of the trigger happened to line up in just the right way. It was very random and nearly impossible to duplicate. It USUALLY happenes when the safety was moved from the "SAFE" position to the "FIRE" position. Rifles made after 1989 no longer locked the bolt handle down. This allows you to open the bolt with the safety in the "SAFE" position. This did reduce the number of incidents, but didn't really address the problem.

While handling the gun the sear would release and the safety was the only thing holding back the firing pin. As soon as the safety is moved the gun discharges. Less common was for the gun to discharge as you start to lift the bolt handle to eject a live round or as you close it on a live round.

Remington was sued over 100 times for this going back to the 1960's and this is the real reason Remington is dead today. All of those lawsuits were settled before going to trial and non-disclosure statements were signed. This allowed Remington to keep things quiet. At least until the internet. All of those hundreds of millions paid out over the years did not go towards building quality rifles and directly led to their downfall.

There was a class action lawsuit a few years back that required Remingtton to replace the trigger on any 700, 721, 722, 725, or model 7 rifle made prior to October 2006 if you return the rifle to Remington. This isn't considered a recall, BTW.

Remington started putting a redesigned trigger in the 700 and 7 rifles in October of 2006. BUT.... due to a manufacturing error some of those rifles got adhesive dripped into the trigger as the rifles were being assembled. There is a 2nd recall for most of the rifles made between 2007 and 2014. Anything 2014-Present shouldn't have trigger issues. Other than the fact that the trigger isn't very good.

I don't know how Remington being sold effects these recalls. But I'd imagine the new ownership would honor this since it is dangerous liability they have bought.

That said. If I had a rifle effected by the recall, I'd just buy a replacement trigger. I put a Timney in mine. It isn't expensive and anyone can do the job in 20 minutes. After doing one you could probably do it in 10 minutes. If you send them to Remington, they will replace the trigger with the crappy new factory trigger, and it takes months to get your rifle back. This is a good excuse to upgrade.

 

[Hugger-4641]

There are 2 separate issues.

The rifles made 1946-2006 had a flawed trigger design. Any of those rifles could discharge with no trigger pull if internal parts of the trigger happened to line up in just the right way. It was very random and nearly impossible to duplicate. It USUALLY happenes when the safety was moved from the "SAFE" position to the "FIRE" position. Rifles made after 1989 no longer locked the bolt handle down. This allows you to open the bolt with the safety in the "SAFE" position. This did reduce the number of incidents, but didn't really address the problem.

While handling the gun the sear would release and the safety was the only thing holding back the firing pin. As soon as the safety is moved the gun discharges. Less common was for the gun to discharge as you start to lift the bolt handle to eject a live round or as you close it on a live round.

Remington was sued over 100 times for this going back to the 1960's and this is the real reason Remington is dead today. All of those lawsuits were settled before going to trial and non-disclosure statements were signed. This allowed Remington to keep things quiet. At least until the internet. All of those hundreds of millions paid out over the years did not go towards building quality rifles and directly led to their downfall.

There was a class action lawsuit a few years back that required Remingtton to replace the trigger on any 700, 721, 722, 725, or model 7 rifle made prior to October 2006 if you return the rifle to Remington. This isn't considered a recall, BTW.

Remington started putting a redesigned trigger in the 700 and 7 rifles in October of 2006. BUT.... due to a manufacturing error some of those rifles got adhesive dripped into the trigger as the rifles were being assembled. There is a 2nd recall for most of the rifles made between 2007 and 2014. Anything 2014-Present shouldn't have trigger issues. Other than the fact that the trigger isn't very good.

I don't know how Remington being sold effects these recalls. But I'd imagine the new ownership would honor this since it is dangerous liability they have bought.

That said. If I had a rifle effected by the recall, I'd just buy a replacement trigger. I put a Timney in mine. It isn't expensive and anyone can do the job in 20 minutes. After doing one you could probably do it in 10 minutes. If you send them to Remington, they will replace the trigger with the crappy new factory trigger, and it takes months to get your rifle back. This is a good excuse to upgrade.

I can verify that Remarms is no longer honoring any recalls or warranty. You can not send anything back to them.
I can also verify that my issue was a very minimal sear engagement. The pics I shared earlier in the thread shows this.

 

[courtgreene]

I was on my private range, pointed safely, it was cold out, I loaded the mag and closed the bolt. Safety was on, forearm in my left hand, bolt firmly in my right hand, as I rotated the bolt handle closed, it went off.

exactly how it happened with mine.

 

[dh1633pm]

I had a Savage Model 10 in .223 that did the same to me first time out. Shot, cycled the bolt and when I lowered the bolt it went boom. Trigger not defective, just wasn’t set right at the factory. Someone here helped me fix it.

Glad I was able to help with this. That trigger came off a 700 milspec. My friend who worked at the arms inspected the trigger for me. Said it was good to go.