Upgrade to a Dillon: 550B or 650?

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jaybrown

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
57
Location
Sacramento, CA
Hey guys, I've been reloading on a single stage press for while and would like to move on to a more automated progressive press. I'm sold on the dillon but am alittle confused on which one, either the 550B or the 650. I'm only reloading for my 40 S&W. I would like to stream line the process and generate a months worth of ammo at one sitting. I'm shooting around 500 rounds a week, maybe more in the future. Not much by some peoples standards but that can take some time on a single stage.

I like the 650 because its more automated in that its "Auto-Indexing". A feature that the 550 doesn't have. I like the idea of the electric case feeder. By your experiences is the case feeder worth it. I was looking at purchasing the 650 with extras but no case feeder and maybe adding it on later if I thought it would be a good add on. some have said that the priming system is alittle different on each one and that one is better than the other. I would think they would use the same one, any thoughts on this?

There appears to be a $110 difference in the cost of the two, which isn't much. I don't expect to change calibers very often.

Thanks for any input :)
 
I have both models. The primer system even though different on each model, I find both reliable as I do the whole press. The only thing about the primer system on the 650 is that if you don't prime a case in station 2 for whatever reason that specific primer with fall into a tray with the next cycle of the handle. Because the 650 model uses a rotating disc to move the primers into station 2. Well sometimes the primer falls into the tray and right out of the tray and on to the floor and then you have to go searching. If the tray was maybe a little bigger or had higher edges this probably wouldn't happen. On the 550 the primer stays right in the primer bar until used.
You can now have a casefeeder on either model. They have a come up with a way to retrofit a case feeder on the 550.

So really the ONLY 2 "extras" on the 650 compared to 550 is the auto indexing and the powder check (station 3).

I like the 650 better and I have a casefeeder for it. To me it only makes sense to get the casefeeder for it in order to take advantage of the auto indexing feature. That way you keep one hand on the handle and the other is feeding bullets. Totally worth it!
 
I've been loading on a 650 for 15+ years. When everything is working it will easily crank out a months supply of pistol ammo in one sitting. I think it's quite a bit quicker and more efficient than the 550. BTW, the auto primer advance can be disabled with the removal of a single allen screw in less than 10 seconds.
 
I have a 550B which I just bought in in Nov of 06. I am all ready wish I had a 650 with the casefeeder. If you aren't hard up for cash go with the 650 I am sure you will be very happy. I do like my 550B it is just the more you reload the more you will wish you can do it faster. I can reload around 500 rounds and hour on my 550 when every goes correctly.
 
Just get the 650...

I was one of the people that started on a 550 and thought it was the "Cat's Meow" until I loaded on a friends 650. It was a eye opener:what: . Sold my 550 two weeks later and got myself a 650 w/casefeed.
Have had my 650 for over 8-9 years now and haven't had any problem(knock on wood).
 
My condolences to your pocketbook if you select dillon. I own a 550, which is now used only for loading 38/357. I got the 550 along with lots of bullets, brass and powders for $75 at a garage sale, where they had no clue to its value. I then became an official member of the blue buffoon battalion, and then became guilty of spreading a “lots of BS” blue bullroar. I was like so many of the dishonest or blindly brand loyal people who have never owned or loaded with any other progressive.

When I first saw the Hornady LNL Auto Progressive, my product loyalty was badly shaken. I soon after bought the LNL Auto and have never regretted it.

In comparing the 550 to the LNL, the Hornady is the winner hands down and at a lower price. Whether or not the 650 is better than the LNL is debatable , but the innovative quick change system of the LNL and it’s more accurate powder measure, all at a significantly lower price, make it the winner in my book.

Customer service is EQUAL between Hornady and Dillon, and perhaps RCBS is a hair better than Red or Blue.

Below is a comparison of the costs of each press with 6 quick changeovers with each press (Dillon 550 and 650 require that you get a complete powder measure for each toolhead to be truly quick). Prices are based on today’s prices, comparing new to new, from Graf & Sons, although some other dealers may have lower costs. Dies and shell plates are not considered here

Press---cost---- cost of press w/6 quick changeovers
550B- -$370 - - $850 (toolhead & powder measure at $80 ea = $480)
650 - - $480 - - $996 (toolhead & powder measure at $85 ea = $516)
LNL - - $360 - - $426 (two 10 packs of QC bushings $33 ea no new powder measure necessary)

Dillon dies are not necessary, as all but a few presses have the standard threading. Your RCBS dies will work just fine.
 
If you look up the hornady progressive, make sure you investigate:

1) tempremental case ejection due to press design especially for small, short cases
2) powder measure activation binding
3) expensive case feeder
4) case feeder comes with no feed plates
5) binding in the case feeder drop mechanism unless kept very well lubed
5) the issues with the new expander inserts for the powder measure (so it can be a 650 lite)
6) no baffle in the powder measure
7) pistol powder insert is extra cost
8) can only use hornady crimp dies

Yes, the hornady really is a bit cheaper and so far I've paid for that every time I sat down to reload with it. If money wasn't an issue, I'd have a dillon setup (again, I miss it) for pistol loading and keep the hornady for rifle loading. With my current finances and number of calibers to reload, I'm stuck with the hornady setup.
 
Jay

I am not part of the Blue underwear crowd but if Dillon is the brand you are sold on then I would recommend the 650 over the 550. If it is not auto indexing then it is not really a progressive press it is just a turret press, which if you are not loading a lot will do. However, you are already at 500 rounds a week which justifies the need for a progressive presses.

I recently researched both the Dillon 650 and the Hornady AP and IMO you can't go wrong buying either the 650 or Hornady. When I researched the prices there was only about $120 difference between both presses when they are setup identical for three calibers. I ended up going with Hornady only because I have access to local supplier where as I would have had to order everything including accessories if I had bought Dillon. I have since ran 10,000 rounds through it since November without any problems and believe I would have had the same success with the Dillon so I recommend you buy the either Dillon 650 or the Hornady AP over the 550
 
1911

1) tempremental case ejection due to press design especially for small, short cases.
The wire is not adjusted correctly or check your cases for burrs on the rim from your gun's ejector
2) powder measure activation binding
This is a problem and why I use an RCBS case activated linkage but the Hornady powder measure handles extruded powder better then the Dillon
3) expensive case feeder
The cost of the case feeder is what makes the Hornady almost the same price of the Dillon 650
4) case feeder comes with no feed plates
5) binding in the case feeder drop mechanism unless kept very well lubed
The case feeder is the same with the exception of the 2 speed motor on the Dillon.
5) the issues with the new expander inserts for the powder measure (so it can be a 650 lite)
That is a problem for those using the powder inserts6) no baffle in the powder measure
That is a $7.00 fix with and RCBS powder baffle
7) pistol powder insert is extra cost
8) can only use hornady crimp dies
Click to expand...

I once had the negative outlook you have toward a Lee LoadMaster and even though I know many people who swear by that press I always seem to have problems. Well I sold that press to a friend of mine had he has loaded over 4,000 rounds without an issue so it wasn't the press it was the user.

If you are really that dissatisfied with your Hornady I suggest you sell it on eBay and buy the Dillon. I have been watching Hornadys and the old Projector presses are going for almost what you can buy a new AP for.
 
1911user, nice try, do you use dilon? Bet you do, a prime example of what I stated in my post.

#1 & 2 are examples of improper adjustment or non-cleaning, are all from minimum posts on this forum and are not general problems. I do not have these problems on the LNL, but have experienced similar problems on my dilon, and in addition the dilon powder measure leaks ball powders where the Hornady does not. The Hornady powder measure is more accurate.

#3. Here are the case feeder prices, shell plat prices, and complete setup price..
550B case feeder - - $230 - - $35 for one shell plate x3 = $345
650 case feeder - - $190 - - $35 for one shell plate x3 = $295
LNL case feeder - - $246 - - $26.50 for one shell plate x3 = $325.50

#4. This is pure unadulterated really runny bull flop. Each dilon & LNL case feeder comes with one shell plate, you have a choice of 1 of 4. To have a complete set, you need to buy 3 more as priced above. So if you buy a complete setup, the LNL and dilon even out to a $30 difference (this is greatly offset by the $120 more for the 650, but you glossed right over that point). The dilon and Hornady case feeders appear to be identical except for the motors & color. They have interchangeable parts and appear to be manufactured by the same company.

#5 This has been reported on the 0.355 expander only. Apparently short expanders escaped the factory, but the problem has been addressed.

#6 This problem occurs in the dilon measures as well as Hdy. The powder bridging problem seems to occur when the measures are more than half full, the problem never occurs when I keep the measure less than half full, otherwise get the baffle.

#7 What a cheep shot!!! There is an extra charge for all additional powder bars for the dilon as well. If the pistol micro insert was standard on the LNL, you would point out that they charge extra for the rifle insert.

#8 Again, bull flop. I use Lee factory crimp dies on the dilon and LNL. If they are to be used in the 5th station, which only a small percentage of reloaders will use, and there is a problem, then filing or grinding a slight bit off the die solves the problem. You forgot to mention that some dilon presses will use only the most expensive dilon dies???????
 
Shoney, I had a dillon 550 for several years then sold it last year to buy the hornady setup. I am seriously considering buying a dillon powder measure and using it on the hornady. I've used both and the dillon measure is better for everything except extruded powder and I don't use that type of powder. I've had several dillon measures and none leaked even fine ball powder. The hornady case feeder (which I have) does not come with a case plate; those are extra. The purpose of the powder baffle is measuring consistency as the powder level changes, not powder bridging and yes, I added an rcbs baffle to the hornady measure. Every dillon measure comes with both rifle and pistol powder bars; hornady only comes with the rifle insert for a press likely to be used for pistol loading. Many people use the much heralded 5th die station, that's why the ejector wire fiasco is a problem. I bought hornady taper crimp dies instead of grinding on other brand crimp dies. The only dillon press that uses special dies is the SDB and it's is not being considered.

The biggest issues I have left to resolve with the hornady setup are roughness in the case feed (top half is the same as dillon, bottom half isn't) operation, powder measure activation (inconsistent roughness and wear), and consistent ejection with different size cases. If the dillon 650 conversions weren't so expensive, I'd already have one. The hornady press has its' good points, but all is not close to perfect with it.
 
Last edited:
LOL - it's funny how someone says they want to know about whether they should buy a dillon 550 or a 650 and they get someone trying to convince them that they're not very bright and should consider a hornady . .reminds me of someone who's trying to decide whether to buy an XD45 in 4" or 5" and all the glock guys jump in.

Anyway, to answer your original question . . . .twenty years ago I had a 550 and loved it. I had a long layoff before getting back into reloading and when I did I bought an AT500 and slowly upgraded it to a 550. It worked great and I have absolutely no complaints. That being said, my wife bought me a 650 this year for christmas and I added on the casefeeder . . . .all I can say is "oh my god!!!". I am not shooting as much as you are, but my daughter and I are burning about 1200-1400 rounds of .45acp per month. I could pretty easily keep up with that on the 550 but on the 650 even moving slow this will be no problem.

I find that I'm loading at about 500-550 per hour on the 650 (just taking my time) which is a little over double the rate I loaded on the 550. I could have loaded much faster on either one but I'm not in that much of a hurry. I think the biggest difference for me is the "style" of loading. On the 550 I batched everything up in batches of 100 . . .on the 650 you load up your primer tubes, put a bunch of cases in the casefeeder and just start loading until the primer alarm goes off, fill the primer tube, toss a few handfuls of brass into the casefeeder, visually check your powder measure and keep on going. I did a two hour session on Sunday while listening to the Bears and filled 2 30-caliber ammo cans . . .

I thought having 2500 rounds of .45acp brass was enough but I could see having 3500-4000 empties so I could sit down and do a 4 hour session once a month.

The only knock I can make about the 650 is that it's a bit more complex than the 550 and I think the caliber changes are probably a bit more involved. I suspect this is the case with any machine that uses a casefeeder though.

Have a good one,
Dave
 
if your only looking to load pistol ammo, look at lee pro 1000

or the dillon square deal press, it comes set up complete for one caliber and cost approx. $320, its got auto case indexing which is great when loading pistol ammo, but the dies a proprietary to the press and cost a lot if you want to load another caliber,

also since your wanting to only load pistol ammo for now, later if your going to add loading rifle ammo later, go with the 650, you'll thank yourself for getting a press with auto indexing when loading pistol ammo.


I've never used the hornaday LnL, I hear its a great machine and value for rifle and pistol, so I don't have any experience with its operation,

when I got ready to upgrade to a progressive for rifle, no one had the hornaday in stock so I went with the dillon 550,

my personal loading set ups are a mixture of rcbs, lee, hornaday, lyman, and dillon,


I'm using a couple of lee pro 1000s for pistol ammo, they're cheap and load good ammo, instead of changing calibers, they're cheap enough that I just buy another for the caliber I'm starting to load for,

the powder measure work great with flake type powders, it'll leak like mad using ball type powder though, I can load about 300 to 400/hr depending on caliber I'm loading,


I use a dillon 550 for rifle, neck sizing cases, I load about 400/hr, cases need to be trimmed to a uniform length for the powder measure to throw consistant charges, with proper case prep, the measure will drop charges right where you set it, if their lengths a little/lot off charges will be at the very least +/- 1/10gr, more if the case length varys a lot,


I use a rcbs single stage for case prep, swaging primer pockets ect. and when working up small lots of rifle and pistol loads,


lyman scales and hornaday powder measure for the small working up load lots.
 
I try to stay out of threads like this, where most posters seem to have a predisposition toward one "color" or the other reloading equipment. I've owned my share of brands over the years (Lyman, RCBS, Lee, Dillon) and have found that 1) they all work, and 2) they all have their quirks, and 3) you generally get what you pay for.

There is no such thing as a "wonderful" or "junky" brand of equipment. Usually the "wars" come down to Dillon vs. Lee, with an occasional skirmish fought with Hornady or RCBS. Most of the posts in this vein are amusing, if impertinent, but the conflict does serve to illustrate some things about these companies:

Dillon machines are very well designed, if somewhat conservative. They are high priced, because their famous warranty is incorporated into the purchase price.

Lee machines are well designed, but that design tends to be more innovative and cost-effective. Lee equipment is almost always the low-price champ in the market, and since therefore it's Lee that helps keep the price of all other equipment down, they should get some kind of award for that alone.

The quirks of the two types of machines would take too long to list in a post of this nature, but Dillon, for example, has very comprehensive owner manuals, in part because their machines are more complex. I regard the caliber changes on my 650 as gratuitously complex. Lees tend to be simpler, but their owner's manuals are sketchy, at best, often leaving the owner to work out the kinks and quirks for themselves.

It's obvious, from the descriptions and examples given above, that different people will find one brand or the other more attractive. It's not an "either-or" proposition, because life is generally not a series of "yes or no" choices.

For twenty years, I loaded all my pistol ammo on two Lee Pro1000s, and had good results. The presses have quirks, but are not the demonic mechanisms that some portray, and almost ludicrously easy to perform caliber changes on compared to my Dillon. I sold my Pro1000s and got a Dillon XL650, because I wanted to step up production, and be able to load bottleneck rifle calibers progressively on the same machine. The 650 does those things, and very well, but it's quite expensive, and the caliber changes, as remarked earlier in this post, are quite complex. I only resolved this issue by acquiring a larger quantity of brass, so I can do longer runs in a given caliber without changing.

I would generally advise people who are getting into progressive reloading to look very carefully at your production needs & your mechanical aptitude, as well as your budget, before buying equipment. Don't get sucked into believing some harangue that one brand of equipment is superior to all others. Were that the case, the other manufacturers would have gone out of business some time ago.
 
Rico567

I think your assessment of the different presses was dead on, there is no clear cut `BEST' press out there they all have their good and bad attributes. Most of the conjecture on this forum is personal opinion and not fact. The real question Jay was asking was whether he should go with a turret press or a progressive. He said he was shooting 500 rounds a week now IMO I definitely think he should go with a progressive.
 
WOW

I really had no idea my post would generate soo much input. But that is why I come here and ask questions from this group of people. Thank you for the detailed examples, they were very helpful. I think I will save my pennies a bit longer and get a Dillon... and how appropriate, my favorite color is blue.... ;)
 
Too many people boasting about the other brands.

A comparison question was posted between two different models of one brand.

I have Dillon Blue on my bench. OK, I've had it for years. A Dillon 450. The only things the 550 does differently than the 450 is the auto prime and powder charge. (There's a 'Green' press on my bench too.) Throw out all that was said about the different powder charge bars as you'll only need one. And that about what powder flows are better than the Dillon. I have more than one Powder measure. Used others. The Dillon is one of the best for pistol powders.

I've set up a 550 with a friend. And used it. I can nearly reload as fast on the 450, but that is with years of practice and a good routine. -And I batch preprime my brass.

For the amount of reloading you're going to do for your .40, the 550 is quite sufficient. But, the auto indexing of the 650 is an incredible feature. The 550 does have a case feeder available now. A huge plus.

Personally, If I were to buy another Dillon, it would be a 650 or a 1050. But only for the throughput rate. You don't seem to need output more than what the 550 will run -not even breaking a sweat. The small difference in price of the two models, sells the 650.

By the way, on my 450, the only Dillon dies I use are the ones for belling the case/powder drop. The rest of my standard carbide dies work fine in the other stations. This would also be true for the 550.

-Steve
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

MoreIsLess
  • Locked
Should I upgrade the 550b
2
Replies
43
Views
2K
Beanie-Bean
B
N
  • Locked
Dillon 550B or 650?
2
Replies
49
Views
3K
Cowboy1629
Cowboy1629
MoreIsLess
  • Locked
Dillon XL 650 bullet tray
Replies
13
Views
1K
jmorris
jmorris
jmorris
  • Locked
Automated Dillon 650
Replies
12
Views
993
freakshow10mm
F
MoreIsLess
  • Locked
Dillon Dealers
Replies
8
Views
866
nettlle
nettlle
Back
Top