UPS stole my gun

[jlg]

I recently made a trade with someone out of state. I shipped him a NIB Bushmaster 97S Carbon-15 Pistol. It's a 7.5" AR15 without a buttstock. They are very hard to get a hold of and not cheap at all.

When the box arrived at the other FFL the gun was missing and a box of fireworks had been put into the box.

Local Police and ATF basically told me that because it is just one gun they probably won't do anything about it.

After just a couple of days UPS called me and said, "We have been unable to find your lost package and since you didn't pay for extra insurance we will be sending you a check for $100." Apparently UPS can steal from you and call it a lost package...even if the package was delivered with the wrong contents.

What angers me more than the loss of $900 is the fact that no one seems to care that a firearm was stolen. UPS barely put any effort into tracking it down and figured it would just be easier to pay $100 and move on.

Stealing a firearm is a felony. So basically we now have a felon walking around with a firearm that meets almost every "evil" criteria that the government wants to ban (short barrel, flash suppressor, 30-round magazine, pistol grip, detachable magazine)...and nobody cares.

But, on a positive note, the ATF did tell me, "If he ever uses it in a crime we'll be able to track the serial number and know that it was stolen." So that makes me feel much better.:banghead:

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I don't blame you for being angry. True, someone stole your package and most likely it was an UPS employee. But maybe not, I also understand the have private contractors that haul their mail.

 

[Mags]

Few questions.

Did you ship the gun overnight?

Did you read and sign the insurance waiver?

 

[Gordon]

When pistols are shipped isn't it a requirement they be overnighted so they know where the location always is within 50 feet?

 

[jlg]

Yes, the gun went overnight. I didn't sign a waiver but I didn't sign for extra insurance either.

 

[bubba15301]

you need to call the corporate office of ups they can track down who handled the package

 

[rscalzo]

Next Day Air automatically insures every package for $100.00. It is up to the shipper to add declared value to the shipment. It costs .74 per one hundred dollars. A total of six dollars additional.

Once an item is out of the shipping container, there is no way to track it. One of the more popular ways to move out an item was to over label a box shipped to an associates address.

That's why all major firearm's manufacturers and dealers do not use their own name for a shipping label. If it were a newer hub, video might be available. Old substation hubs do not have much of that equipment installed.

 

[Ben86]

you need to call the corporate office of ups they can track down who handled the package

^This, take it as high as you can, and maybe consult a lawyer so you could threaten a lawsuit. You have to make big corporations like that take you seriously. Also mention mentioning their wanton disregard for stolen guns to the public, the media.

 

[TX expat]

That's crazy, but I guess it doesn't surprise me. There's no way to guarantee that you'll only have honest people handling the package you ship, which is probably the best reason to be sure and purchase the insurance available.

I'd think that if you went high enough up in the UPS chain of command, you'd see some action though. Personally, I'd find out the name of the district manager and speak with them on the phone. Get names and take notes. If you don't immediately get a more positive vibe from that person, I'd send a polite, certified letter to Scott Davis, the Chairman and CEO of UPS. I'd very politely explain how serious you feel this situation is. I'd make some veiled implications that maybe if it was their money, they'd take a more proactive stance on finding out what happened. Most importantly though is to stay polite and level headed, because then they will have a more difficult time writing you off.

Since you could have purchased insurance to cover yourself, I doubt that there is anything you will be able to do to get financially reimbursed, but you can at least make sure you've done everything possible to get someone investigating the theft.

 

[rscalzo]

they can track down who handled the package

It was never stated if it was shipped Next Day Air as required by UPS regulations. Even so, the shipped declined the additional insurance and was paid exactly what the contract specified.

Was the box sealed upon arrival at the FFL? Knowing how the hubs work, the packages do not remain in one spot long enough for someone to open, replace the contents and reseal and relabel. Much depends on it's travel through the automated scanners in the hubs.

 

[TX expat]

Yes, he clarified that in post #5, he did ship it Next Day Air.

 

[bruzer]

That is absolutely terrible.
I realize you must be very upset (I would be too) so please don't take offense with this information. This is copied from the UPS website:
Declared Value
Per domestic package and international shipment*:
$0.75 for each $100.00 (or portion of $100.00) of the total value declared, with a minimum charge of $2.25

Delivery Confirmation


* Delivery Confirmation: $2.00 per package
* Delivery Confirmation Signature Required: $3.25 per package
* Delivery Confirmation Adult Signature Required: $4.25 per package

I know that UPS automatically insures for $100 but for an extra $7.75 your package would have been insured for $1000. Then add another $4.25 for Delivery Conformation Adult Signature Required and for a total of $12 of extra fees you would have been insured for $1000 and had much more piece of mind shipping an expensive item like that.
Once again please take no offense but when shipping expensive items it is important to pay that extra and get all the insurance and services available.
Mike

 

[jlg]

I don't generally insure my shipments just because they are always packaged well enough that I'm not worried about damage and in all my years of shipping things nothing has ever been lost.

It really angers me that they classify this as a "lost" package when there is no doubt that it was stolen. I understand that per the contract I can only expect $100. And although I don't think I should have to pay a company extra just in case they try to steal from me, that's the way it is. But I don't want them to just pay me $100 and drop the case. FIND MY GUN AND ARREST THE FELON THAT TOOK IT. If we'd worry less about making new gun laws and worry more about enforcing the ones we already have we might actually make a dent in the crime statistics.

 

[bikemutt]

I'm not so sure UPS would have accepted responsibility even if it had been insured. This is not a case where they damaged the payload by mishandling it, nor did they outright just lose the package.

My experience with UPS has been that once the insured dollar value rises around the $1000 mark, they will only accept the package at a corporate drop off location and may also require the contents be inspected by a UPS employee. Once they accept custody of such a package and sign off on it's contents then they are on the hook for even the strangest perils.

It's certainly a fuzzy area.

I feel your pain and hope you get that gun recovered someday.

 

[tkaction]

Im sorry but what were you thinking when you didnt buy the insurance.

 

[jlg]

I was thinking, "Surely UPS won't steal from me."

 

[medalguy]

Sorry about your gun, I know that really sucks. But from the UPS standoint, as a business matter, there's this:

1. You shipped a product, doesn't matter what it was, and this created a contract with UPS.
2. They automatically covered $100 with insurance at no cost to you.
3. You did not declare the actual value not pay for any additional insurance.
4. The product was not delivered per your contract with UPS.
5. UPS paid you the $100 insurance which was provided with the basic shipping charge.
6. UPS handles literally millions of packages daily. This is but one package. They complied with every term of their contract with you.
7. I doubt anything will come of this situation which is very unfortunate but that's the reality of the situation.

Good luck getting anything further accomplished. It's unfortunate.

For everyone else, remember to declare full value on all firearms shipped and always insure for full value. I ran a business for many years and we self-insured but I was not in the firearms business. I think firearms are a little bit more likely to disappear in transit than most other products and we need to be prepared for this to happen. It does.

 

[Frank Ettin]

[1] Tracking down a stolen gun and prosecuting the thief isn't UPS' job. That's up to law enforcement.

[2] The OP didn't buy the available additional insurance, so UPS' liability is limited to $100.00.

[3] This is a good lesson about why one should always buy the additional insurance unless he is willing to assume the risk of loss himself.

 

[jlg]

Again, I'm not at all angry over the fact that I'm only getting $100 from UPS. I chose not to insure the package. I took the gamble and lost. I don't believe theft should be classified as "losing a package" but that's the way it is.

What angers me is that UPS committed a felony (they are responsible for their employees) and not only do they not care but neither does local law enforcement nor the ATF.

It's scary to me to think about a felon running around with this gun.

 

[esquare]

[1] Tracking down a stolen gun and prosecuting the thief isn't UPS' job. That's up to law enforcement.

Tracking down how a package's contents were stolen while in possession of the company is most definitely UPS's job. Who would ever accept anything else? Their job is to get items from point a to point b. If they aren't doing that, then they need to be working on figuring out what went wrong.

This is akin to someone saying that it's not walmart's job to find employee's that are stealing products from the stores - of course it's walmart's job.

Now, it's the LEOs job to go find the guy and prosecute him, but to think that UPS has no role in finding the felon employee is not right.

 

[raz-0]

Seriously, no insurance?

ATF isn't involved in theft though, they deal in trafficking, if that. Have you tried the FBI since it is interstate commerce? Or local law enforcement? As far as you know, the driver/clerk you handed it to pocketed it after you gave it to them. The ATF certainly isn't who I would call regarding theft.

 

[Jackal]

My rule of thumb: Whenever anything is worth more than $100, I insure it, regardless of the carrier. Treat shipping an expensive item like gambling; only ship un-insured that which you could afford to lose.

 

[rscalzo]

Was it shipped "Next Day Air"?

Otherwise, the number of employees that the package passes can be in the hundreds. Few actually touch it and until it is actually loaded on the truck, it rarely stands still for long.

Was it shipped from a UPS Center's Customer Counter? Was the contents declared as a firearm? If not, they can simply declare the package was delivered intact.

Over 15 million packages a day...You bet I insure everything of value.

 

[jlg]

Yes, Next Day Air

 

[9mmepiphany]

While I feel you pain for the loss, I do understand why UPS would treat it as a lost package.

1. A customer comes into a store with a sealed box and declares it as a firearm.
2. They believe him and charge for shipping using their policy for that item
3. They deliver a package to the address on the label
4. The customer (shipping) claims the contents of that package delivered are not the same as that originally packaged in the box.
5. They don't know what was originally in the box and for $100 they don't think it is worth contesting. They just pay the $100 and write it off to being a lost package.

Without having seen what was in the box to start with, how would any third party know what was shipped...that would rise it to a felony?