Urge West Virginia governor to veto HB 3074 -- invalidates nonresident permits

[ThatIsAFact]

On March 22, the West Virginia legislature sent to Governor Joe Manchin (D) House Bill 3074. He has until April 4 to decide what to do with it (but he may not take that long). This bill makes a number of changes in the state's reciprocity law. The West Virginia Citizens Defense League has posted a detailed analysis that argues that the complicated requirements of the bill, far more demanding than the current law, are likely to result in nullification of the only two reciprocity agreements that the state has ever entered into -- with Kentucky and Virginia. Whether or not that turns out to be so, one thing is absolutely clear: If the governor signs this bill, permits issued by Virginia to nonresidents -- which are clearly valid under the language of the current law -- will immediately become invalid in West Virginia.

Furthermore, future reciprocity agreements reached under the terms of House Bill 3074 (if there every are any) will apply only to permits issued by a reciprocal state to its own residents. So forget about ever carrying in West Virginia on a Florida nonresident permit, if this bill is signed.

If you want to urge the governor to veto this retrograde bill and send it back for more work, here is his contract information:

To send a fax: 304-342-7025

To send an e-mail: [email protected]

To send a message via the governor's web contact form:
http://www.wvgov.org/sec.aspx?id=36

To telephone: 304-558-2000 or 1-888-438-2731 during normal business hours

The Honorable Joe Manchin, III
Office of the Governor
1900 Kanawha Blvd., E.
Charleston, WV 25305

 

[lacoochee]

You have to wonder why crap like this happens. I mean has there been an outbreak of violence on the part of non-resident permit holders? What motivates these morons?

 

[Chawbaccer]

You have to wonder why crap like this happens. I mean has there been an outbreak of violence on the part of non-resident permit holders? What motivates these morons?

It's the legislature, they won't do anything unless somebody else does them a favor. I'm looking for Manchin to veto this bill, he has a good head on his shoulders for a dem.

 

[glockman19]

You can't carry NOW with a FLA non-resident permit so nothing really changes. Between Utah and Florida I can legally carry in 31 of the 50 states concealed. Nevada and Oregon have great open carry laws. loaded on passenger seat is OK. So that leaves 14 states and DC I have problems with. No Problem for me. I just won't be going to Conneticut, DC, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Mass, Nebraska, New Jersey, New York Rhode Island S. Carolina W. Virginia or Wisconsin very soon.

 

[ThatIsAFact]

the new bill would indeed change things

Glockman, two things would change if House Bill 3074 is signed into law: (1) The Virginia nonresident permit, valid in West Virginia under current law, would no longer be valid. (2) Both Florida and Utah would clearly qualify for reciprocity under the current West Virginia law, if the governor chose to enter into such agreements, but the new bill, if enacted, would make such agreements unlikely -- and would bar recognition of Florida and Utah nonresident permits if even such agreements were reached in the future.

By the way, Florida is on the Kansas list of recognized states. Under the plain language of the Kansas statute, that means any Florida-issued permit is valid there (unless you are a Kansas resident). The new state attorney general says on his website that proof of residency in the issuing state is also required, but that conflicts with the plain language of the law. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

 

[rono]

I have emailed back and forth with one of the House reps that worked on writing this bill. He was trying to get more reciprocity with other states. Maybe it didn't work out that way. From what I've seen from the Governor's office, is basically nothing on reciprocity since he's been in office (pretty much nothing about gun owners at all). Too bad the automatic reciprocity bill didn't make it through. Hopefully if the governor sees a bill like this coming through removing him from the process, it will light a fire under his butt to actually do something about reciprocity with other states.

 

[ThatIsAFact]

This bill to invalidate nonresident permits is still on the governor's desk . . .

Keep those faxes and e-mails going in, urging a veto of this discriminatory, anti-tourism bill, HB 3074. Governor Manchin has until April 4 to sign or veto this retrograde bill. The contact information again:

To send a fax: 304-342-7025

To send an e-mail: [email protected]

To send a message via the governor's web contact form:
http://www.wvgov.org/sec.aspx?id=36

To telephone: 304-558-2000 or 1-888-438-2731 during normal business hours

The Honorable Joe Manchin, III
Office of the Governor
1900 Kanawha Blvd., E.
Charleston, WV 25305

 

[Norton]

Are you sure that WV recognizes VA non-resident permits currently? When I called the state police they said "no" and the state police website has never been updated to say otherwise.

I'd love to be shown otherwise, because that is the exact situation I'm in...property in WV but would have a VA non-resdient permit.

Q. I live outside of West Virginia and I have a concealed carry permit for a firearm in my home state. Does West Virginia honor my permit?

A. West Virginia currently honors concealed weapon permits issued by the State of Kentucky and by the State of Virginia to its residents. Currently, no other out-of-state concealed carry permits are honored. Our law was changed to permit reciprocal agreements with other states and our Governor's Office is beginning that process. Please consult with authorities in your state in order to determine if a reciprocal agreement has been made with West Virginia.

Virginia has recently begun issuing non-resident permits. West Virginia is in the process of determining whether Virginia non-resident permits will be honored and that information will be posted as soon as it becomes available.

 

[buzz_knox]

Are you sure that WV recognizes VA non-resident permits currently? When I called the state police they said "no" and the state police website has never been updated to say otherwise.

No, it doesn't. WV used to, until someone wrote the gov't and asked about the issue. The gov't then decided that the non-resident permits wouldn't be honored.

A friend jumped got a VA non-resident permit because he heads to WV on occasion and WV doesn't recognize his TN permit. He was . . . miffed when he learned that his money had now been wasted.

 

[ThatIsAFact]

Currently, Virginia nonresident permits are valid under the statute

Norton, I am glad you asked that question. What follows is my layman's opinion. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. But I personally have no fear of carrying concealed in West Virginia today, on a Virginia nonresident permit, because it is explicitly authorized by law.

The current West Virginia reciprocity law [WVC 61-7-6] contains a list of persons who are entirely exempt from the general prohibition against carrying concealed weapons, which includes the following: "(7) Any resident of another state who has been issued a license to carry a concealed weapon by a state or a political subdivision which has entered into a reciprocity agreement with this state."

Thus, if I am "a resident of another state" (that is, a state other than West Virginia), which I am, and I have a valid permit issued by "a state" [not "that state"] "which has entered into a reciprocity agreement with" West Virginia, then I am exempt from the West Virginia law that prohibits carrying concealed weapons.

Other provisions of the statute give the governor authority to enter into reciprocity agreements with other states, but do not require him to do so. (In fact, only two reciprocity agreements have been entered into -- with Kentucky and with Virginia.) However, the statute does not give the governor, or the attorney general, or the state police, any authority whatever to refuse to recognize a valid permit issued by a reciprocal state. These officials currently have no more legal authority to refuse to recognize a valid nonresident permit issued by a reciprocal state, than to announce that they will not recognize permits issued by Virginia to persons who are less than 5-feet-10.

If the governor does not like the fact that Virginia now issues permits to nonresidents, he has one remedy under the current statute: Withdraw the reciprocity agreement.

That would be quite irrational, however. Neither Virginia nor West Virginia require fingerprinting and FBI checks from applicants for their resident permits. But police-administered fingerprints and FBI checks are required of all Virginia nonresident applicants. Why should West Virginia be concerned about the subgroup of Virginia permitees who have undergone the stricter scrutiny?

 

[yhtomit]

Yoiks, not a great CCW state anyhow, it seems

Looking at packing.org, it seems that no state in which I live or have lived would let me carry in WV, anyhow.

Surprising -- I would have thought that WV would be a hotbed of reciprocity and generally pro-self-defense. Is it the DC-suburbs effect?

timothy

 

[creitzel]

Well, it looks like the governor signed this bill into law. See Here

It may not be the end of the world, depending on how many states that they create reciprocity with.

I really hope they start honoring Michigan permits, my wife has a ton of family in West Virginia, and we would both like to carry when we visit.

 

[30 cal slob]

Good luck with the fight, WV CCW'ers.

I have a VA non-resident permit, which is no good there.

So on a recent trip I just open carried on the brief stretch I drove through between OH and PA.

I prefer to CCW, but if OC remains legal then that's fine by me, I'll just OC obnoxiously with a big honking black military pistol on a tactical thigh holster and a dozen mag pouches.

 

[phonesysphonesys]

It seems to be a growing trend. Colorado is headed that way. The governor stated he would sign a bill kiling non residents ccw permits. I think he just may be guaranting that he won't be reelected.

Semper Fi

 

[only1asterisk]

Signed into law this afternoon.

David

 

[F4GIB]

I have emailed back and forth with one of the House reps that worked on writing this bill. He was trying to get more reciprocity with other states.

Some people are TOO stupid even for public office. Here's your first candidate for voter's revenge.

 

[Crimp]

I can't begin to count the number of contacts I've made to the governor and my legislators (and others) about WV reciprocity and the Castle Doctrine. It's amazing that this particular piece of garbage made it through when there were several others that were reasonable reciprocal bills. Some of these people are a waste of oxygen.

I had a nice chat on the phone with my local legislator about some of the gun bills. Seemed like a true 2-A kinda' guy. He ended up a cosponsor of HR-3074. It sure is disgusting and disheartening.

 

[Norton]

Damn....that screws us out of state property owners.

Here's a thought: What are the chances that, as a landed property owner in WV, that I could get an in-state WV permit?

 

[only1asterisk]

Here's a thought: What are the chances that, as a landed property owner in WV, that I could get an in-state WV permit?

I think so, but I've never had the call to investigate it.

Have you checked out the new West Virginia Citizens Defense League? The president is a law student and sharp guy. Talked to him on the phone for about half an hour last night. He'd be a good guy to ask.

You can find his contact number at the group's site, http://www.wvcdl.org/

 

[Norton]

Thanks only1asterisk!

 

[only1asterisk]

Happy to help. Let me know when you make another visit to that cabin. I'll take a day off and break out some of my new AWB II toys.

David

 

[Robert Hairless]

Pity. We used to stop over in Beckley, West Virginia, quite often. We enjoyed it.

Since our presence offends the Governor and the Legislature we won't stop there or elsewhere in West Virginia ever again.

We respect other people and would never go where we are not wanted.

 

[Pushrod]

Norton, I'm in the same boat you are in. If you find out any information about a WV landowner, non-resident being able to get a WV resident CCW please post it on here and I will do the same. Thanks.

 

[Crimp]

Norton/Pushrod, here's the specific residency requirement for CCW in WV:

WVC 61-7-4

(2) That, on the date the application is made, the applicant is a bona fide resident of this state and of the county in which the application is made and has a valid driver's license or other state-issued photo identification showing such residence;

 

[rhinov]

I get the WVCDL email alerts. When they contacted me and said that this bill was on the second reading in the senate I emailed both of my senators. I told them that this might hurt the reciprocity we have with Kentucky and Virginia and that it was a bad bill overall. Senate President Tomblin and Sen Stollings are my senators. They both emailed me back, I can't remember right now what Pres.Tomblin wrote but Sen Stollings said that the National NRA rep was there and he said it was a good bill. Stollings said that is why voted for it. After thinking about it for awhile I realized Stollings probably had not even read the bill. As for the NRA rep, I thought that they were for it because on the outside it looked pro-gun and they could claim it as some kind of victory. I wish WV would get some good reciprocity going. I feel like a charity case when I am in a state that recognizes my WV permit even though WV dosn't recognize there permits.