Principal and theory are important, but...
let's make this personal (as in reality all situations are). I have a teenage daughter. Although my cosmology is secular, the best words I know to describe my joy in her existence and in my unbelievable priviledge in being her father, is to tell people that she is my gift from G-d. You THRers with children will probably understand what I mean
Now let us imagine that she was kidnapped, G-d forbid. (yes I know it sounds confused --- and who knows, maybe I am confused, but that is another, even longer story) and her captors were threatening to hurt her or worse. And I managed to get my hands on one of the kidnappers and he knows where they're keeping her but refuses to say where.
To save my child, would I torture him? You BET I WOULD!
If he ignored my warnings, I would, ...hmm, ...how about chopping off a finger to get his attention. Good chance he'd tell me then, wouldn't he? But if not, I'd have NO compunction in doing to him WHATEVER IT TOOK, barring -- actualy, ... I can't thnk of anything I wouldn't do! He chose to commit the crime and he has the power to save my daughter. The KIDNAPPER chooses what I'll do to him. And you guys who believe in G-d... well I trust that HE made me this way -- capable of such hatred, so that I can do what is necessary to rescue my child.
Does that make me a barbarian? No. What it makes me is someone who contains, among many others, a barbarian and even worse, if necessary! What do you thinkwe are, anyway??? And why do the Torah and the other scriptures contain so many proscriptions? Isn't it because we NEED them? We need the commandments so that we can learn to master ourselves, so that we can at least approach some semblance of a civiled condition. And as a secular man who misspent his youth as a "compassionate" liberal, I must say that once I began looking, I have never found greater wisdom than in Torah. Western civilization rests upon it and upon it's offspring daughter, Christianity. And as it says in Ecclesiastes (sp?), "...there... is a time to every purpose under heaven." So I believe that there is even a time for doing whatever it takes to save one's child. Isn't that why we say Molon Labe?
One reason that liberals make me sick, is that they always grab the high ground and preach to the rest of us, all the while grossly unaware of who and what we all are. Or maybe they have an inkling, and it terrifes them, so they want a tyrannical government to force us to be good. Have you spotted the error in their logic? And completely overlooking, of course, that morality and compassion cannot be enforced, but can only be the product of our will, of our FREE choice.
I consider myself decent and civilized, more or less. But I didn't get there by myself, or by subscribing to the philosophy ",,, if it feels good, do it." or, "...just go with the flow....eh, can I have another hit, man?"
I've done all that. And it is good, indeed you must trust yourself. But only after you've actually met and made peace with who your self is.
Remember, guys 'n gals, principals (principles?) ARE important. But every civilian on 9/11 and every one of our soldiers, is somebody's daughter, son, father, mother, sister or brother.
We must be very careful what powers we entrust to our (swollen and run-away) government. And especially so with a power as dangerous as torture. Nevertheless, I say, "... do whatever it takes!" Those who haven't come to terms with the barbarian in themselves are themselves the most dangerous. And as it says in Talmud, "Those who are kind to the cruel will end by being cruel to the kind."
Boy Preacherman! You chose a hot one this time. And you sure got me going, didn't you?
Do you suppose an atheist could get hired as a preacher if I brought my own soapbox??!
Matis
