US Marines using PPSH's in Iraq.

[Ukraine Train]

I was really surprised to see this, pretty cool, though.

 

[wasrjoe]

Are those US guys or are they Iraqi? I know that the Iraqis have old USMC gear, and is seems very strange to me if our guys are using PPSHs.

 

[natedog]

I dunno who they are, but I'd probably take a submachine gun over an M-16A2 indoors.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Worked well in Stalingrad...

Could just be a photo-op for the camera, too.

 

[RKCheung]

That's most definitely Desert MARPAT.

 

[HKrazy]

I have been lucky to be able to shoot quite a few machine guns including the PPsh and it is like no other.

The high cyclic rate of 15 rounds per second, powerful cartridge, ambidextrous ejection port on top that shoots brass up and forward, fed from a reliable 71 round drum, make this sub gun one awesome room broom.

Having heard it, I will always be able to recognize the unique sound of a PPsh firing.

I can't think of any weapon that surpasses it for the kind of work these guys are doing.

 

[El Rojo]

If that guy is Iraqi, he is the most caucasian looking Iraqi I have ever seen. In war zones lots of interesting things turn up in soldiers hands.

 

[Billy Sparks]

Easiest way that I have found to distinguish Army from Marines from ING troops is to look at the uniforms. USMC is using MARPAT almost exclusively in Iraq where as US Army and ING are wearing a more traditional desert camo pattern. I think MARPAT is hard enough for Marines to get hold of I doubt they would start giving them to IMG just yet.

By the way what is the PPsH chambered for?

 

[victory]

Makes perfect sence to me. Submachine guns are great for tight quarters where an m16 and even M4 might be too big. The PPSH is a compact weapon that has a very high rate of fire, a capacity more than twice that of an MP5, and 7.62x25 has more quite a bit more penetration than a 9mm, especially out of a long barrel. It's like an old fashioned FN P90. near rifle performance in a compact, high-cap ambidextrous package. I'd love to own one, even a semi automatic version, if they could actually be found...anywhere.

 

[Mikul]

I WANT ONE!!! I'll settle for a reliable semi-auto version.
The military is stealing most of my good ideas!

 

[jefnvk]

After hearing reports that some soldiers were using AK's, this doesn't suprise me. Personally, if I were clearing rooms, I'd want a 71 rd SMG over a 30 rd rifle or carbine.

Does the Army/Marines even issue SMG's to anyone, or is it all the M4's?

 

[wasrjoe]

If they are actually using them and it's not a photo op, cool. I say let them use whatever they want, and I'm sure a PPSH would be much better for room clearing than their current issue rifles. I just know that a lot of people seem to get their panties in a wad when anyone suggests that our Military is using anything other than issue gear.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Agree that they're Marines, not ING.

When in Al-Anbar, we issued a few PPSh-41s to our local ING unit, as the officers wanted a "status" weapon to distinguish themselves from the enlisted. We were rather short on pistols at the time.

Regarding SMGs, non-issue gear, etc. Generally, when I see a picture of a Marine with an Iraqi weapon, I assume it's a photo op. I planned to do a cool "clearing a stairway" photo op with a 1938 Beretta submachinegun, but never got around to it. Would have been fun just for the novelty. (For the pics I did get, they're up at photos.yahoo.com/signpostmk under the "Iraqi Range" section). Every time we had a pile of Iraqi weapons, every lance corporal wants to grab one and strike a pose for the camera.

That said, I'm sure there are folks using non-standard gear. I knew a few Marines who carried AKs on missions, one who carried an Iranian G3 ripoff, and one who carried a 9mm Sterling subgun. Most of those were guys from smaller, specialized units (not Special Forces, just specialized support personnel) who weren't under particularly close scrutiny from higher, and could get away with more. In most cases, it was definitely a combination of "good weapon for the job" and "gee, isn't this cool", rather than being just one or the other.

So, odds are these guys are posing for fun, but if they're not, I'd say they picked a pretty interesting choice for room clearing.

 

[victory]

not just an interesting choice for room clearing, but a highly effective one. those things are bullet hoses. some have a ROF of over 1000RPM.

 

[El Tejon]

It's the appearance of the . . . [wait for it] . . . "Iwannacoolgun" RETRO virus.



"Wow, this here's of them thar old timey guns. Nah, I don't need any extra gear or even load it. We're just funnin'."

 

[RevDisk]

Buddy of mine found one in Afghanistan. The barrel was incredibly worn, almost entirely smooth. The rate of fire was a little too high. Just touching the trigger depleted all of the ammo.

 

[Preacherman]

I used one in a couple of firefights in Southern Africa. As a close- or confined-quarters broom to "sweep up" one's opponents (or the pieces thereof), I think the PPsH has few equals.

 

[Domino]

Inter Ordnance made a few semi-auto Ppsh rifles for a while (it was called the SR-40, I think) but they stopped due to inconsistancy and complaints of reliablity. They cost around $450 and would be unlikely if not impossible to find now. The Ppsh would make a fine submachine gun for short and medium range targets compared to mp5's (9mm) and M4's (with 62g FMJ) IMHO. I probably would not be afraid to use one if I properly tested it before hand. They are kind of like a full-auto M1 carbine with a 71 round drum. I'm waiting (but not holding my breath) on a U.S. company to make a newly designed carbine chambered in the 7.62X25 cartridge and perhaps use Ppsh magazines if accessible, because they are affordable at this time.

 

[KarbineKrazy]

This is a good thread!

 

[SMLE]

The straight dope from a Marine Gunner...

The following is from a CWO3 Marine Gunner I know who serving in Iraq with the 7th Marines. I have ommitted his name to make sure I don't inadvertantly get him in hot water.

Although Marines are not authorized to pick up and use any Iraqi weapons
laying around, it is not uncommon for non-traditional personnel (I.E.:
communicators) who find themselves with the requirement to clear a facility
of potential hostiles to arm themselves beyond the M9 Berreta. This would
be for a short time period limited to the objective at hand, not only for
logistical reasons (can't re-supply the weird ammo) but for target
recognition purposes. A Marine armed with non-standard weaponry when viewed
through passive or thermal optics at night can easily be perceived as a
target, getting himself shot for his poor decisions. During daylight, when
non optic aided shooters are focused on their front sight tips of their
rifles, the same problem exists for those not armed with traditional easily
recognizable weapons.

The uniform in question is definetly Marine as well. We have loaned out
very few of these uniforms, providing them only to interpreters that patrol
with us and noone else.

Any Marines that I see carrying foreign weapons are stopped and disarmed.
This is a Division policy but does not extend to the other combatant
commands who are trying to arm themselves beyond the M9. I have no control
over them so I wish them luck.

 

[Rockstar]

Looks like a really interesing weapon. Just wondering, for those who have done room clearing, as to why a 71-rd. magazine is desirable for room clearing?? If it had a 50-rd magazine, would it be less effective at room clearing? Just didn't occur to me that clearing a room(s) would require massive ammo supplies, relative to other battlefield conditions.

The G18 has a cycle rate of 20 rds. per second. Would the G18 with a 50-rd drum hung off it do well at room clearing??

 

[SMLE]

Rockstar;

The PPSh fires the 7.62x25 pistol cartridge. It is a pretty high velocity round combined with a very high cyclic rate. The PPSh is very controllable as well. The 71 round drum means you have to stop to reload a little less often. Compact, light, controllable, effective, the PPSh is just one of the great SMGs of all time. .

A fellow I used to know said they captured a few PPShs in Korea along with a bunch of ammo and just for the heck of it, tried to burn one up. They fired over a dozen full magazines through it in 71 round bursts and it was still going strong. They got bored before the gun gave out.

 

[natedog]

It isn't exactly light, about 10lbs loaded. It is very, very cool.

 

[RevDisk]

It isn't exactly light, about 10lbs loaded. It is very, very cool.

The extra weight comes in handy if you ever have to hit someone with the weapon.

 

[armoredman]

Uncle Joe was so enamoured of it that he outfitted many infantry units with nothign but PPsH subguns, giving them devastating short range firepower, but a distinct disadvantage when at open range, from Mauser armed Huns. I saw the semi-auto PPsH, and it was horrible, wish someone would build a new one. Nice pics - I saw the title of this thread, and said "Yeah, right!"
BTW, I have been told PPsH barrels were actually Mosin Nagant 91/30 barrels sawed in two - saved on machinery.