Zombie
member
Ok, but you can't carry one on base. So when you go to the store on base you are disarmed correct?
US Soldiers Becoming Targets at Home
- Thread starter mcschrader
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Nicodemus38
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for a while it was normal for thugs to hang out around bases at night and mug soldiers coming out. something about the army not letting servicemen go out the main gate with a ccw.
Tinpig
Member
mcschrader-
Having come home in 1969, I can tell you that the attitude towards returning soldiers is a whole lot better now than it was then.
I think you'll find people at home aware of the sacrifices you have made and overwhelmingly grateful to you for your service to your country.
If you come in through the Bangor International Airport you'll see what I mean.
Best wishes,
Tinpig
Having come home in 1969, I can tell you that the attitude towards returning soldiers is a whole lot better now than it was then.
I think you'll find people at home aware of the sacrifices you have made and overwhelmingly grateful to you for your service to your country.
If you come in through the Bangor International Airport you'll see what I mean.
Best wishes,
Tinpig
mljdeckard
Member
ChaoSS-
So we're just ......stupid. Good to know that you think some of us aren't warmongers and psychos.
So we're just ......stupid. Good to know that you think some of us aren't warmongers and psychos.
Shadow Man
Member
Indeed.
Since we are so misguided, you sir, must know the truth. And you accused us of being elitist...
essayons21
Member
Fort Hood was not a "freak" incident. Al Qaeda, and other associated Islamofascist groups are actively targeting service members at home. They have said this repeatedly in their various propaganda statements, and in the past few years there have been at least 4 incidents of attacks either successful or foiled. Al Qaeda is actively targeting American service members at home. The sooner the Army and this country takes that threat seriously, the better.
Keep in mind that for all intents and purposes, Maj. Hasan was an al-Qaeda operative. The nature of the organization is it decentralized nature. Effectively, anyone who takes action with the same motivations as al-Qaeda, and attacks the approved targets, is a member of the terrorist group. That is their standard, it should also be ours.
Also realize that the al-Qaeda planning stage for major terrorist attacks is 10-15 years. Anyone who thinks that attacks on our homeland against members of the military will not intensify is sadly misguided.
Does this give military service members any more rights than an average citizen? No, hell no, I think we all agree on that.
But the US Military refusing to either provide adequate force protection measures or allow soldiers to defend themselves with privately owned weapons needs to end.
EDIT: And take the pissing match between pro and anti military/war/whatever to another thread. It is definitely not High Road, and will only lead to an otherwise productive thread being locked.
Then, by all means, feel free to enlighten me, exactly where am I wrong?JoeSlomo said:
Again. You put words into my mouth. I didn't call anyone stupid, but it seems you are bound and determined to make people think you are.mljdeckard said:
I do think am I right. I am not, however, attempting to suggest that only people with my views should have special privileges.Shadow Man said:
I have been civil. Perhaps some of you should try the same.
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Shadow Man
Member
Nor am I suggesting that any person who holds views similar to mine should be granted special privileges. I think that the OP's ideas are well-meaning, but misguided. It's a crying shame that some states still have severe restrictions upon concealed carry permits, and I personally find it rather absurd that a young man in the armed forces can be trusted to carry military-grade weapons in the name of his country, but is deemed unable to carry a civilian-legal handgun in the states, but I do not advocate giving them a free pass where restricted by law.
And if you think that attacking my intelligence and mental state is civil, may I civily suggest that you purchase the book called "Merriam Webster's Dictionary" and familiarize yourself with the term "civil"?
And if you think that attacking my intelligence and mental state is civil, may I civily suggest that you purchase the book called "Merriam Webster's Dictionary" and familiarize yourself with the term "civil"?
longdayjake
Member
When you label an entire group of people its called predjudice, stereo-typing, judgemental, and here in Idaho we call it "jus' plain ignorant." Nothing could be farther from civility. In fact, I believe the nazis did the same thing to a particular group of people.
mljdeckard
Member
No, I used the correct terminology for what you were trying to say without looking like an ass.
Don't P*** down my back and tell me it's raining.
Don't P*** down my back and tell me it's raining.
Shadow Man
Member
Well said, mljdeckard.
WinchesterAA
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- 870
Welp.. The recent additions to this thread are less than spectacular, and consist primarily of information my mind has processed thousands upon thousands of times before..
SO, there's not much to contribute that hasn't already been contributed --
I'd like to thank the OP for an interesting thread.
I'd like to thank The Real Mags for an insightful explanation in each of his posts.
I'd like to thank the violent one for his amusing story of how he gets paid to beat military personnel into submission. That was truly unexpected.
Personal notes on the (evolved) subject, for what it's worth -
I picked up on the "WE APPRECIATE YA'LL BECAUSE YA'LL KEEP US DOING THIS" message, but IMO.. Our freedoms aren't protected on Saturday the 5th, 2009. As we chat away on this board, people in all ranks of .gov, .edu, and everything else as a result -- are actively contributing to the destruction of a quality lifestyle that defined the USA.
I would like to ask.. Is it wrong for me to believe that a role in the military these days would be more adequately utilized with a mentality that supports this reasoning: I get paid, I learn things I need to know, I meet people I need to meet, I do things I need to do, and I can make the most of it for myself.
This is to say, "Previously it was a respectable and honorable thing, we believed we were doing the right thing, the thing that needed to be done, but today it's just a job. A mediocre, barely useful job, with benefits that I can't get elsewhere. Possibility of death is present, if not probable."
Surely this can be reinforced by Obama's recent address about sending 30,000 more troops to the desert, and his speech to go along with it that was, for the most part, exactly what Bush said the first time around...
I was surprised when I didn't hear the words, "We're gunna stay the course."
SO, there's not much to contribute that hasn't already been contributed --
I'd like to thank the OP for an interesting thread.
I'd like to thank The Real Mags for an insightful explanation in each of his posts.
I'd like to thank the violent one for his amusing story of how he gets paid to beat military personnel into submission. That was truly unexpected.
Personal notes on the (evolved) subject, for what it's worth -
I picked up on the "WE APPRECIATE YA'LL BECAUSE YA'LL KEEP US DOING THIS" message, but IMO.. Our freedoms aren't protected on Saturday the 5th, 2009. As we chat away on this board, people in all ranks of .gov, .edu, and everything else as a result -- are actively contributing to the destruction of a quality lifestyle that defined the USA.
I would like to ask.. Is it wrong for me to believe that a role in the military these days would be more adequately utilized with a mentality that supports this reasoning: I get paid, I learn things I need to know, I meet people I need to meet, I do things I need to do, and I can make the most of it for myself.
This is to say, "Previously it was a respectable and honorable thing, we believed we were doing the right thing, the thing that needed to be done, but today it's just a job. A mediocre, barely useful job, with benefits that I can't get elsewhere. Possibility of death is present, if not probable."
Surely this can be reinforced by Obama's recent address about sending 30,000 more troops to the desert, and his speech to go along with it that was, for the most part, exactly what Bush said the first time around...
I was surprised when I didn't hear the words, "We're gunna stay the course."
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Do you feel that stating that I believe you are misguided is an attack on your intelligence and mental state? I believe you are wrong, and that is not the same as calling you stupid. It is unfortunate that people can get so emotionally involved in a subject that a differing opinion is seen as a personal attack.Shadow Man said:
The Nazis also reversed bad gun control laws, giving people access to guns. What's your point?longdayjake said:
The only people to whom I have assigned a label is a group of people defined solely by their choices, specifically their choice to kill, or to assist others in killing, when they believe that those who are being killed do not deserve to be killed. If you don't like it, I really don't care.
Generally, I know I've won a debate when someone has nothing better to say than throw out "NAZI!!!!".
Far from it. If you don't know the difference between misguided and stupid, then I suggest you find yourself a dictionary. Intelligent people are misguided on many issues on a regular basis. If you don't understand that fact, look around these forums. People are wrong about a great number of things, doesn't mean they are stupid.mljdeckard said:
mcschrader
Member
I am not taking an Elitist veiw as you like to call it. I am concerned for my life and my familys lives. I do not think that I am more special than any other military memebers, and you saying that shows that you are just trying to ruffle feathers. Also, as a military member, (or police officer), you go through training with a weapon. (I am not saying that (as a lot of people have been saying on here) "regular people" don't). But, as a service member I do have experiance in combat and I do have experiance actually having to fire in the direction towards someone else. Therefore if something were to happen and you have a "regular person" who goes to the range every once in awhile fires 200-400 rounds out of his/her gun, who thinks they are ready to take a life, gets backed into a corner, pulls their gun and then finds themselves not able to shoot. Same thing happens to a service member who (even if they have not been deployed) get into the same situation, IMHO they would be much more willing to shoot because we have been trained that way. Thats just my opinion.
WinchesterAA
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- 870
Trained that way.. IIRC, it's a pretty natural thing to kill.. Do you mean "re-trained"?
advanced training?
(I'm serious, what I said above may not fit in well in the perception of today's lifestyle, but in the grand scheme of things, somethings got to die for something else to stay alive, and that's the way it's been forever.)
advanced training?
(I'm serious, what I said above may not fit in well in the perception of today's lifestyle, but in the grand scheme of things, somethings got to die for something else to stay alive, and that's the way it's been forever.)
Shadow Man
Member
Saying I'm misguided leads me to believe that you think I'm poorly informed about a subject, and have come to the wrong conclusion, thus I need to be eudcated as to what the reality is. That, sir, is an attack upon my intelligence.
Saying that I am psychotic is suggesting that I mentally unstable, and mentally unstable people need some form of counseling, therapy, or medication to get them back into the right mental state. So that would be an attack upon my mental state.
And the only people the Nazi's gave weapons to were those who toed the party line. AKA, giving people with their views special priveliges.
By saying that some soldiers kill without thinking that the people they are killing need to be killed is suggesting that they are mindless drones. And while I am sure there are mindless drones in the service, I have yet to encounter any.
And WinchesterAA, I believe the "re-training" has come from todays socioty, where we are encouraged to ignore our basic principles, and are taught that nothing is worth taking a life. The military seeks to correct this, so in effect, they are "re-re-training" us...in effect, teaching us to listen to our instincts. We have them for a reason.
Saying that I am psychotic is suggesting that I mentally unstable, and mentally unstable people need some form of counseling, therapy, or medication to get them back into the right mental state. So that would be an attack upon my mental state.
And the only people the Nazi's gave weapons to were those who toed the party line. AKA, giving people with their views special priveliges.
By saying that some soldiers kill without thinking that the people they are killing need to be killed is suggesting that they are mindless drones. And while I am sure there are mindless drones in the service, I have yet to encounter any.
And WinchesterAA, I believe the "re-training" has come from todays socioty, where we are encouraged to ignore our basic principles, and are taught that nothing is worth taking a life. The military seeks to correct this, so in effect, they are "re-re-training" us...in effect, teaching us to listen to our instincts. We have them for a reason.
mcschrader
Member
Yeah, I was just trying to find a link about the Little Rock shooting and thats what I found. I had no clue about the background of the link. Sorry.
mcschrader said:
This makes our point, you are being elitist in suggesting that the military is better able to handle weapons. Your first post suggests that you are not really in a combat role, yet you think that you are better able to kill than Joe American.
Yes, I think you are poorly informed. That is not the same thing as stupid. If you can't see the difference between wrong and stupid, then you have a problem. If that's the case, then you are calling me stupid. If there is no difference between wrong and stupid, then we should look at the debates between, say, AKs and ARs, and label everyone on one side as stupid. The same goes for the debate between semi automatic handguns and revolvers. One side is stupid, by your reasoning.Shadow Man said:
I don't know you. I don't know if you believe that those who are dying in this war deserve to die (those on the other side, obviously). If you believe that they do, then yes, you are misguided, but not psychopathic. (that's the word I used, I believe, not psychotic)
And that is what is known as ignorance.
If you kill someone who you think does not deserve to die, then yes, you have a problem. Call it being a drone, call it psychopathic, I don't care, it's a problem.
:edit: I posted this before seeing the post from HSO, my apologies if I shouldn't have posted it.
mcschrader
Member
I am in a support role. My support role is riding around Afghanistan in supply convoys. I am not saying we are better trained with weapons, I am saying that we are more experianced with looking at a human being as a target WHEN THREATEND. (Do not quote my post without the when threatend.)
mcschrader
Member
I did not mean to start an argument on here. I agree that soldiers should not recieve more rights, and that is not what I was trying to insinuate. I apoligize to the Moderators for the arguments that have insued on this thread that is not what this was intended for.
mcschrader, if you really are just concerned about being attacked for being a member of the military, listen to Mags. Don't advertise what you are in areas that might be unfriendly to you. Keep your head about you, pay attention to your surroundings. You can't always have a gun, but you can always be aware of your surroundings, you can always know where cover is if someone opens fire, you can know where the exits are, you be aware of where the police/MPs will be.
longdayjake
Member
So if I were to logically follow this statement, you do not consider Jews to be people since I'm pretty sure they weren't given any access to guns. Or is it possible that your statement was simply "misguided?" Well, since there is no way that I can tell for sure what you believe or feel, I should probably just keep my opinions to myself when it comes to the beliefs, thoughts, and intentions of other people. I mean, anything else would make me look like a mean uneducated schmuck.
I was afraid my post would be viewed this way. Let me just say that I never once caused injury to another person who was not first causing or attempting to cause injury or bodily harm to an innocent party. Imagine how stupid it sounds to allow someone to beat up an innocent person simply because the person doing the beating is military affiliated. My post was simply to illustrate how military people can often put themselves in situations where violence may be done to them. And also how they might avoid violence when they return home from the war front.
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