Use cases for short-barreled .308?

[avqpuggr]

Guys, what use-cases are short-barreled .308s for?

Generally, 20" barrel for .308 with standard load will give full powder burn and full velocity. Many studies confirm this. If you drop barrel length for maneuverability to 16" or so and add a suppressor then you still come out about 20" (e.g., surefire suppressor adds about 4" or so). You sacrifice some velocity and poweder burn but you gain the advantages of a suppressor and keep maneuverability.

But what about barrels at 14.5" or 12"? POF offers such barrel lengths on .308. Now if you are engaging targets up close, say within a 100 yards, is there question on the lethality of 5.56 with 10.5" barrel and suppressor? This is more maneuvarable than .308 and still lethal. So why would someone opt for a 12" or 14.5" barreled .308? Perhaps if you needed to hit through barricades up close? Does anyone know of real world uses for the real short .308 barrels? Most books I read on military uses (e.g., special forces) always mention short-barreled 5.56. Is short-barreled .308 out there in real world use?

 

[Phaedrus/69]

This is actually a great question, IMO. I've seen a few .308 AR pistols with very short barrels but at first blush I'm not sure what the application is. I do wonder what kind of velocity you can get out of an 8" barrel.

 

[G.barnes]

Pof rifles are used by a couple government agencies like border patrol. At the ranges they would be engaging target the barrel length vs velocity is not an issue. Even out of the short barrel the 308 packs more energy and better barrier penatration. Our military started out much bigger than a 5.56 rd but found it didn't benefit them as much do to weight and ammo limitations. If you ride around in a truck instead of hiking then those differences don't matter.

 

[X-Rap]

Just look to the Contender line of pistols, they have been working very nicely for many years killing big game from 10-14" barrels and with the Encore line have moved up to the high pressure calibers.
I've taken muledeer and antelope out past 200 yds with a 14" 30-30 so 308 will no doubt work well in a SB AR.

 

[splithoof]

Just make sure you have good hearing and eye protection before a range session. Beware, if you light one off from inside a confined space, such as a vehicle, it will be quite an experience!

 

[Double_J]

The only thing I can see they would be good for is hearing loss. The .308 round is LOUD when fired from a barrel shorter than 18-20 inches, I would know as I had a gentleman touch off a contender right next to me one day. I was doubled up with plugs and muffs and still had a ringing ear.

 

[urbaneruralite]

Please provide a link to the studies for our edification. Thank you.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Generally, 20" barrel for .308 with standard load will give full powder burn and full velocity.

Incorrect. 20-22" is optimal for striking a balance between performance and package dimensions, but by no means is the .308 done accelerating a bullet at 20". Or 25". Or 30". It's just that nobody wants to carry around a rifle with that much tube.

 

[barnbwt]

This seemed relevant...

 

[barnbwt]

FWIW, you can't see the front sight when firing, though they are reputedly controllable on full auto and reasonably accurate.

 

[Nom de Forum]

FWIW, you can't see the front sight when firing, though they are reputedly controllable on full auto and reasonably accurate.

Sure they are!

 

[tuj]

short barreled .308 is just about perfect for sitting in a tight deer blind. Appropriate caliber and not too big of a rifle to manage inside the blind. In even smaller blinds, we use a Mini-30 with a folding stock.

 

[MCgunner]

i'd have NO use for it. 20" is short, to me. But, then, I've never taken up killing humans. I'm more into deer. Never killed a human in my life, don't plan to start.

As for tight box blinds, my Remington M7 is short and compact enough. Beyond using it, I'd just go to my TC Contender pistol with 12" .30-30 barrel if I thought I needed MORE compact.

 

[dprice3844444]

if your doing door to door or heavy woods areas, short barrels would get make it easier to navigate the areas. for 90% of folks, they don't need anything longer. you can still hit out to 1k yards with it.

this is 18 inch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15qj032UJ1I
12 inch
https://video.search.yahoo.com/vide...:s,v:v,m:sa&hsimp=yhs-att_001&hspart=att&tt=b

 

[200Apples]

.
Why'd Ruger offer the .308 Scout in 16.5" or 18"?

I aske ye.

 

[Tirod]

The FNFAL was offered in 17.2", and the standard HKG3 came in at 17.7 and a shorter 12.4".

What was typically added was a suppressor, as they are military standard in some units. Korea supplies them to every soldier.

It's the US that has an aversion to common sense hearing protection. We require suppressors on our motor vehicles but charge a tax to use one on a firearm. And pay a lot of disability for our collective failure due to hearing loss. Even when we know better we still have major issues with our military personnel not having ear protection or issuing suppressors.

The NFA made it an issue where it never was. In Europe they are commonly sold in hardware stores, and you are required to have one when shooting. Keeps the neighbors who live right next to the range happy.

Only in America is it macho to go deaf. Don't agree? Ask a biker about loud pipes.

 

[taliv]

i also have no use for them at all.


the thing about practical precision shooting is that the targets don't change size with distance. sure, on the range you may put a bigger bullseye at 1000 yards than you do at 100 yards, but deer don't magically grow 10x and if you're a police sniper, people's CNS don't magically get bigger either.

obviously, it dramatically limits your effective practical range.

so when your range gets that short with an SBR 308, the funny thing is, your targets don't get magically smaller either. The bad guy's head doesn't magically shrink at 50 yards. At 100, it's still a 3" A-zone, which is after all, a gimme target for anyone with even mediocre marksmanship. deer get smaller as you get closer to florida, but not just because you got within 75 yards. soooo....

why use a bolt gun? an AR is more than capable of that accuracy and is just as lethal.

 

[strambo]

I don't see a use for under 16." A 16" AR10 type carbine is very usefull out to 800yds or so. Under that and velocity drops enough that a 300BLK makes more sense.

 

[stoky]

The only thing I can see they would be good for is hearing loss. The .308 round is LOUD when fired from a barrel shorter than 18-20 inches, I would know as I had a gentleman touch off a contender right next to me one day. I was doubled up with plugs and muffs and still had a ringing ear.

+1
There also great for bleeding off that excess muzzle velocity, and their soooo tacticOOl.
Then there's the muzzle flash. It really impresses the folks on the benches next to you at the range, or lets your enemies know your really serious.

 

[avqpuggr]

Please provide a link to the studies for our edification. Thank you.

Incorrect. 20-22" is optimal for striking a balance between performance and package dimensions, but by no means is the .308 done accelerating a bullet at 20". Or 25". Or 30". It's just that nobody wants to carry around a rifle with that much tube.

A quick online search found me this source source that reaches same conclusion as other studies I've read in written form. I've seen other studies posted online over the years that reached the same conclusion.

I don't want this thread to be about that though. So please don't derail. Thanks.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I would say that anything under 400 yards and you would be fine. Should you be a long distance shooter wanting to stretch the legs of the distance you can shoot then more barrel would be better.

For what it's worth, my 30-30 has a 16.75" barrel And I can hit steel out to 400 yards all day long. Wouldn't hunt that far out with it or any caliber for that matter.

The other thing where shorter barrel length matters is mostly a matter of handiness. Be it in the field or getting in and out of a vehicle or defending yourself inside a home. If you are just going to the range or hunting from a blind or tree stand a long barrel is fine.

 

[Sunray]

A Mini-30 with a folding stock is not a .308. Isn't even close to the same thing.
"...Why'd Ruger offer the..." Marketing. The whole 'scout' concept was one of Cooper's more stupid ideas. You really had to read the article to see just how stupid it is. A bolt action with a long eye relief scope is not and never has been any kind of military firearm that Cooper proposed. He never suggested it as a hunting rifle.
Extremely short barrels are for use in military vehicles not hunting. Far too much velocity loss.
If your blind is tight you made it too small.

 

[Inebriated]

I like shorter guns. I've shot deer with a 17" .30-06. Also shot them with a 22" .30-06. And a 16" 7.62x39. All dropped just as dead.

I would have no problem shooting them with a 14.5" .308.

I don't know what you guys do, but the only real use I have for a .308 is deer. A 14.5" .308 can still push a 125gr SST faster than a 16" 7.62x39. Hell, even if it's just the same, it'd still be effective. Sure, it's more flashy... put a flash hider on it if that bothers you. And if you are going to complain about hearing loss, at all, you should be wearing ears when shooting virtually anything. Electronic ear pro will do more for your hearing than another 6" of barrel. But hey, I've hunted without it and I've yet to even hear the rifle when there's a buck in front of me, to include that 17" '06.

Whether or not that reduction in length offers any benefits worth the tradeoff in velocity is up to you.

 

[MCgunner]

Whether or not that reduction in length offers any benefits worth the tradeoff in velocity is up to you.

And, for me, it's not.

 

[mac66]

I think one needs to look at the velocity at various lengths to determine what is acceptable. A 150-170 gr .30 cal bullet out of a 30-30, is generally considered adequate at 2200 FPS. I don't see why the same bullet out of a 308 wouldn't be.

My main hunting rifle for the last 25 years has been a 20" bbl 308 bolt action. This year I used a 16" bbl semi auto zeroed with the same ammo (168gr BTSP). Velocity difference was about 160 FPS but I don't think the deer I killed this year could tell the difference.