Use cases for short-barreled .308?

[MCgunner]

I think one needs to look at the velocity at various lengths to determine what is acceptable. A 150-170 gr .30 cal bullet out of a 30-30, is generally considered adequate at 2200 FPS. I don't see why the same bullet out of a 308 wouldn't be.

If i'd wanted a .30-30, I would have bought one.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Short barrels work much better than I though:


Mike

 

[Kosh75287]

"...Why'd Ruger offer the..." Marketing. The whole 'scout' concept was one of Cooper's more stupid ideas.

I take it you're not a fan of the late Colonel Cooper.

 

[mac66]

"If i'd wanted a .30-30, I would have bought one"

Me thinks you are missing the point. Velocity of a given cartridge is determined by a number of factors; weight of bullet, ballistic coefficient of the bullet, amount of powder in the load, and length of barrel.

So the point is that if you shorten the barrel on a 308 it is still as good as or even better than other .30 cals which are considered good cartridges. And you can make up the difference in velocity by using a lighter .30 cal bullet and/or adding more powder (within limits), and/or using a different kind/shape of bullet.

Change any of those factors and you change the velocity. Since we are talking about the 308 we are talking about a .30 cal bullet which runs from 100 grs up to 220 grs. and can be used in a wide range of cartridges.

Ultimately, you could load a 308 to approximate anything from a .30 carbine load up to close to 30-06 velocities and everything in between.

 

[Surly]

I have a SBR'd PTR-91P and a FAL that I built. Both have barrels between eight and nine inches. Why do I have them? Because I can. What use are they? My personal amusement.

Saying that short barreled rifles are only for killing people is outright ignorant. It is this rationale that drove me to renouncing my life membership from the NRA and ceasing with any further donations and support. Painting me in a negative light because of my choice in firearms is not how we remain allies in the on-going fight for our G*D-given rights.

While I do occasionally murder defenseless animals to put food on the table, I spend the rest of my range time annihilating rocks, car bodies and even sometimes punching holes in paper.

 

[urbaneruralite]

That does not pass for a study and does not show what you seem to claim it showed.

Real world uses of short-barreled .308s are mostly for fun within the tacticool crowd. If you were going to get serious about doing such a thing efficiently you'd use a different cartridge.

I use a 20" .260 quite a bit, btw. It really isn't any handier than a 22" but it is noticeably louder. I make sure that I get the muzzle outside any enclosure I fire it from.

 

[R.W.Dale]

After using a 17" encore for hunting this year I am a believer in short barrels for deer blind hunting

A 16" 308 will still hold a SIGNIFICANT power and range advantage over the much lauded 20" 30-30 and will readily kill deer at any range I have business shooting at them



Handyness weight and portability are off the chart compared to even a 20" bolt gun which feels like toting a wet mop around by comparison.

 

[tomrkba]

One purpose of the short barreled 308 Winchester rifle is so that one may consolidate on one caliber.

Real world uses of short-barreled .308s are mostly for fun within the tacticool crowd. If you were going to get serious about doing such a thing efficiently you'd use a different cartridge.

I disagree. I'd have no problem with an AR-10 style rifle with 18" barrel for use to 600-800 yards. I'd use a bolt action with longer barrel for longer distances.

I have considered consolidating all my rifles to 308. The only reason I have not is that 5.56x45mm is so much cheaper and I have a few heirlooms in different calibers.

 

[urbaneruralite]

Are you most people? Does limiting yourself to one cartridge have anything to do with cartridge efficiency in short barrels?

 

[jaysouth]

I was lucky enough to get my hands on a Remington7600P. It is a .308 with 16 1/2 inch barrel and ships with ghost ring rear sight and a luminous front. It was Remington's attempt to get into the police market.

Anyhow, the gun is but an inch or so shorter than a lever carbine in .30-30.

After shooting thousands and thousand of skeet and trap rounds in various 870 shotguns, I am very familiar with how this gun works. It is easy to get in and out of vehicles, boats, and blinds. Where I hunt in the bayous, it is more than enough gun for anything I am likely to encounter.

 

[boricua9mm]

Some food for thought: there are reports of the SAS having made confirmed kills in Afghanistan at over 1,200m using the L129A1 DMR...a .308 with a 16 inch barrel.

I don't think any 30/30 or 7.62x39 is going to deliver that kind of performance.

Once you get into SBRs, especially with guns as short as the OSW, HK51, etc. then the barrel length really becomes a detriment to the round's capability and the 7.62x39 arguments start to make more sense.

 

[tomrkba]

Are you most people? Does limiting yourself to one cartridge have anything to do with cartridge efficiency in short barrels?

The thread is about use cases, not an argument about efficiency. The problem we Americans have is we tend to spend too much time arguing over the last 10% of performance despite the 80% level being sufficient for most uses. This is why I mentioned 600 yards; most people have access only to shorter ranges. Hunters around here crack me up with their scope arguments--when the average shot is 50-75 yards.

I determine my requirements and choose a rifle to meets the need. I try to overlap a bit. For example, I can go to 600-800 yards with an 18" barrel and a good scope. Getting to 1,000 may mean I have to bury the target at the bottom of the scope. A 20 MOA offset and a different BDC will make that 1,000 yard shot easier. But, this would overlap with the bolt action which groups better anyway. A short barrel on a semiauto rifle makes for a better fighting gun that delivers harder hits at 600, 400, 200 and 50 yards. It will never be a good target gun at 1,000, but it is for fighting with the ability to reach out a bit if I need it. I do not care that the muzzle velocity is X FPS slower since it won't matter at shorter distances and bullet selection can make up some of the difference. My tactical rifles do not need the 99th percentile in performance and a semiauto rifle sacrifices too much MOA to take advantage of it.

 

[urbaneruralite]

tom are you actually doing any of that short barrel .308 shooting at distance?



That's interesting about the L129A1 use. I'd like to hear the backstory on how they came to be in that situation.

 

[tomrkba]

tom are you actually doing any of that short barrel .308 shooting at distance?

A buddy of mine has a DPMS AR-10 with 18" barrel. He has a Nightforce optic on it. It has no trouble getting to 800, but the target has to be buried in the optic to get to 1,000. The gun is accurate enough and makes hits, but he had to learn how to use it with that scope.

We went to a class together and I learned the limits of that gun along with a bunch of other guns. Needless to say, another friend's Accuracy International rifle dominated the range. A Winchester Model 70 in 30-06 had absolutely no trouble at 1,000 yards, nor did my cheap Savage 10. Both rifles had good 3-9x scopes on them, which made all the difference. Everyone was using Federal Gold Medal Match that they bought on sale (that'll never happen again...)

I now have access to a 1,200 yard range, but haven't owned a 308 for awhile. It was just too expensive during the ammo crunch. I went to 5.56x45mm, which can makes hits at 400 and 600, but the power of those hits is lacking. I am contemplating getting one of those Colt 901's or crying hard and buying a SCAR Heavy.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

20 inch 308 is probably the ideal rifle for deer hunting up here. Even 18 inch gives enough velocity to make shots out to 300 yards. As to a shorter barrel well they do get loud and do loose velocity but id rather be shot by a 223 going 2800 fps then a 308 going 2400 and id feel much better equipted in the deer hunting field with a 30 cal bullet at 2400 then a 223 bullet at any speed. Even a .30 cal bullet at 2200 (ie the 3030) has accounted for more then a couple deer and even some elk and moose and id bet even a brown bear or two.