Use of lethal force to defend my home during a riot?

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.. Which will end you up in prison with boring regularity. As I have said before, and will say again, for the vast majority of you Sec. 9.42.(2)(B) does not apply since you most likely have homeowners or renters insurance which will cover the loss of you TV... hence Sec. 9.42. (3)(B) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means

That seems to be an interpretation not shared by many. Unless car radios and roofing shingles are considering irreplaceable by insurance i'm gona have to disagree.

If you can show me a single conviction against a person who shot a fleeing thief at night to protect an insured item I'd be more than happy to hear it.

...and yes, I am an expert of the subject matter.

Can you elaborate?
 
Remember the people who sought refuge on the roof of the gun shop during the LA riots?
As far as I know they never shot anyone but they fired a number of times into the corner of the curb whenever the mobs got too close. That was always enough to turn them back.

There was also a case where a policeman leveled a shotgun at looter carrying a TV out of a store and ordered him to stop. The looter said "Or what, you gonna shoot me over a TV?" Then he turned and strolled off with the TV.
 
Posted by JustinJ: That [(refers to "financial restitution does count as property recovery unless the property was of a unique or unreplaceable manner)] seems to be an interpretation not shared by many.
That means nothing.

This is a question specific to Texas, but interpretations "not shared by many" have been the undoing of people who thought themselves justified under castle laws and are frequently the reasons why numerous suggestions on this forum are very unwise.

What counts is who has made the determination.

BTW, This is the legal definition of restitution: A making good for loss, damages, or injury, by indemnifying the damaged party; return or restoring something to its lawful owner. That would seem to this layman to fall under the terms of "protected or recovered." Perhaps someone can discuss this in an informed manner.

Unless car radios and roofing shingles are considering irreplaceable by insurance i'm gona have to disagree.
Would your disagreement have any credibility in court?

If you can show me a single conviction against a person who shot a fleeing thief at night to protect an insured item I'd be more than happy to hear it.
That would be interesting, but the question would be whether there has ever been a jury instruction on the subject, and the real question would be whether any cases have ever gone to appeal.

Internet rumors notwithstanding, there does not seem to be a large number of cases in which Texans have shot thieves and justified their actions under the terms of Texas Penal Code Section 9.42.
 
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I would just keep in mind that sooner or later order will be restored and we will all be made to answer for what we did in desperate moments.
For me I would defend my home under what castle doctrine and stand your ground laws that are in effect in my state. I'm sure the argument will be made against this but in general if there is someone breaking into your home or parts of your property that you intend to defend and and you stand between what they want and your life is threatened then you have a defensible case. Arson, shooting into your home or at an individual of course would require immediate action to stop and I can't think of a place I have lived that didn't consider those actions worthy of deadly force.
 
What if someone returned fire into a large mob? Let's say this person is justified (forced to fire to protect life / family). One out of the ~50 mob participants is the sole shooter. If this person that is protecting their life returns fire, there will likely be many people wounded or killed. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks.
 
I am pretty amazed at some of the horribly ignorant advice that has been put out here. Warning shots to fend off looters when your life isn't in peril? Really? Try that in a state like Florida where something like that will get you 20 yrs PERIOD no questions asked.
As was stated earlier, YOU are responsible for your actions once the riot is over and law is restored. You should still abide by the law even though those around you are not. You will be held accountable to a jury of peers and will be judged according to the law. Thats what makes law abiding citizens different from criminals. Thats also why if I were in this situation I would only use deadly force when my life or my families lives were in immediate peril and the use of a deadly weapon was the only option for protection. Anything else according to my state's is a criminal act.
 
Returning fire into a large mob would be ill advised IMO. While you may be justified to fire on the initial assailant, you are not justified in firing upon the others who did not fire upon you. If you injure or kill the other people in the mob you can and most likely will be prosecuted for murder or manslaughter even though you were trying to protect from the one assailant. The best option would be to move family and self to the safest location and use whatever you can as shielding. If the attacker pursues and seperates himself or even others continue to specifically target you or your family then its time to take action and defend from the threat.
For me its all about getting to the safest location possible and doing everything I can to show that using my weapon was my last line of defense. I understand this is easier said than done because in a riot situation chaos is in control and the ideal situation probably won't exist. Thats why its good to think these things through first.
 
This is a question specific to Texas, but interpretations "not shared by many" have been the undoing of people who thought themselves justified under castle laws and are frequently the reasons why numerous suggestions on this forum are very unwise.

What i am referring to is two cases i can recall off the top of my head. One was in Austin in which a man caught another breaking into his vehicle at night. The thief fled and was shot in the back. As i recall the shooter was charged but it was dropped or he was found not guilty.

In another a man actually opened fire on a truck that was fleeing with roofing shingles stolen from a house he was building in Houston. As i recall the police stated he would not be charged.

Links of the first story are hard to find but it is not for the second.

I'm not advocating such actions but my knowledge of previous events contradicts the notion that a Texan can only use lethal force to defend property for which restitution is not possible.

BTW, This is the legal definition of restitution: A making good for loss, damages, or injury, by indemnifying the damaged party; return or restoring something to its lawful owner. That would seem to this layman to fall under the terms of "protected or recovered." Perhaps someone can discuss this in an informed manner.

Sec. 9.42. (3)(B) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means

This layman does not equate being compensated for to recovered.

The following statement seems to imply that there is some past events to support it so i think the burden of proof is the one who made the statement:
... Which will end you up in prison with boring regularity. As I have said before, and will say again, for the vast majority of you Sec. 9.42.(2)(B) does not apply since you most likely have homeowners or renters insurance which will cover the loss of you TV... hence Sec. 9.42. (3)(B) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means
 
There seems to be an underlying assumption by some posters that rioting or civil disorder in some way decreases accountability for use of deadly force. However, as others have pointed out, the law doesn't change. It is possible that it may not be fairly and evenly applied in various scenarios, but that can just as easily mean an individual gets to be the example rather than the guy who gets a pass on reckless behavior.
 
Posted by JustinJ: As i recall the police stated he would not be charged.
That does not establish legal precedent that would affect any other cases.

And he can still be charged, until and unless he is tried and acquitted, pardoned, or dead, or until the statute of limitations runs out.

This layman does not equate being compensated for to recovered.
The question is, what is the underlying legal principle?

...i think the burden of proof is the one who made the statement
And his or her deciding to not provide same will not change the law.

Now, if there is an extant legal principle equating "protected or recovered" with financial restitution, and even if no one has tested the black law in Texas in that context, someone will someday become the first test case. Those things sometimes take decades--even longer than the prison sentence of he or she who is convicted, and can even damage the balance sheets of major corporations.

And then there is the civil side, with its much lower threshold for proof....

The real point here, one more time, is that no one should ever base his conclusions regarding the law on his or her reading of a single statute taken in isolation, without a good understanding ot the rest of the code, established legal principles, and pertinent appellate rulngs.
 
There seems to be an underlying assumption by some posters that rioting or civil disorder in some way decreases accountability for use of deadly force.

That needs to be said again. Those four police officers in New Orleans found out the hard way.
 
Riots are generally not quiet, stealthy affairs. Since I'm not an inner-city dweller, the chances of one spontaneously generating in my neighborhood are less worrisome than falling space junk and slightly greater than flying pigs...

Shoot a rioter on my property? Not likely. If the situation deteriorates to such a degree, I'd already be bugged out.
 
I am always amused/amazed at the Texas mentality of shooting fleeing burglar who might have their car radio in hand.
I don't personally disqualify the notion of taking a shot at a retreating threat if I or someone close has been hit by the threats gunfire nor the idea of pulling a gun on a thief if I were to surprise and be surprised by one. I can't however get my mind around the idea of possibly killing some kid or kids screwing around in the dark and maybe TPing my trees or some other prank or shooting above mentioned thief if he decides to bolt.
 
Ask yourself if you you would be willing to spend the rest of your life in jail in order to protect whatever they are taking/destroying. If yes then you're probably justified.

That's actually not a bad rule-of-thumb.
 
If you can show me a single conviction against a person who shot a fleeing thief at night to protect an insured item I'd be more than happy to hear it.

Once they start publishing plea agreements.


Can you elaborate?

Not particularly. I have many times already. I don't find it productive to establish my credentials every single thread.

If you don't want to take my free internet advice, that's fine. You can always come to my classes and pay for the same advice and hear the same words spoken by a prosecutor who gives a presentation during them.

Or, just ask the gentlemen at Texas Law Shield.
 
I think that does it.

Should anyone not understand Post #40. PM me po the poster.
 
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