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Used model 64's

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Thaddeus Jones, Dec 9, 2009.

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  1. Thaddeus Jones

    Thaddeus Jones Member

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    Has anyone purchased one of the used model 64's from J&G sales?

    Are they pre lock? Do you get a choice? What kind of condition was yours in?

    How does it shoot? Was J&G simple to deal with? Thanks so much for the info! TJ
     
  2. gunnie

    gunnie Member

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    bought two of'em. one -6, and one -5. the newer one had some rusting under the grips, not major. both mechanicly good, fired little. sights are snub nose quality, put a bomar rib on the -5, slicked up the action, good shooter.

    took about a week to get 'em, would do it again without hesitation.

    gunnie
     
  3. wep45

    wep45 Member

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    i bought a S&W model 64-5 NY-1, in very good condition, from J&G sales in august

    J&G did a great job of cleaning this revolver before shipping. the chambers, bore and forcing cone were bright and clean. it came with the original wood stocks and has a matte (dull) finish. the lockup and timing are excellant.

    the exterior has some scratches and dings (small). these don't concern me. it's not a show piece or collector item. it's a shooter. well balanced and very accurate.

    some of the model 64 are pre-lock, some are not. a choice may cost you $10 extra.

    J&G Sales are good people to do business with. if you are interested in a certain make /model (i.e. s&w model 64 with 2" barrel) give them a call and ask the representative what they have in stock. many times they will go in the back and see what is on hand for you.

    good luck
     
  4. Thaddeus Jones

    Thaddeus Jones Member

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    Thanks gentlemen! I will call them today. TJ
     
  5. gunnie

    gunnie Member

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    HMM-M-mm

    sorry about the thread robbery, but i had a twisted thought i just can't keep contained...

    NYC, who is {was?} in court trying to collect damages against the surrounding states fire arms dealers for "exporting" their horrible fire arms crime problem into the otherwise harm free people's zone...

    sells their used police handguns to ANY surrounding state for THEIR public's consumption. (because you suck and they hate you?)

    no hypocricy there!

    gunnie
     
  6. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    You may have a point, and my opinion of New York City's government is much the same as yours; but I believe that Smith & Wesson sold the 64-5/NY-1 model to a number of police department, and it is possible that an over run might end up on the commercial market.

    All genuine NYC revolvers would be so marked, and if this was the case I think that J&G would have mentioned it in they're advertising.
     
  7. zt77

    zt77 Member

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    I got one of their NY-1's. it is very clean, they didn't give me the option but I asked for a pre lock and they said they would get me one. I wish mine would have had the origional wood stocks but instead it had some terrible rubber ones. I put some a hogue monogrip on it. Mine looks like it hasn't even been carried much, but the 'vapor hone' finish is all gone.
     
  8. McCall911

    McCall911 Member

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    I'm always on the lookout for a nice Model 64, but the timing is always wrong. Either my finances aren't too good when they're on sale (thanks, Santa Claus!), or the price is too high when I find one.
    Grrr...
     
  9. Stainz

    Stainz Member

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    In 5/08, I had just sold the last of my Ruger wheelguns when I visited the local 'pusher'. I bought a new 627 Pro - fantastic purchase - had $325 left - bought a security guard trade-in 64-8 - current production - that was unissued - NIB - and I had enough to buy my CFO and myself a 'Happy Meal' afterwards. Let me tell you, new production 64s are also fine - the MIM parts work fine and that IL blemish on the sideplate is just that - a blemish; totally innocuous.

    For it's first year, it rode the range bag constantly - and was cleaned regularly. It even 'borrowed' some nice Ahrends, only to revert back to it's OEM UM's Combats when that year was up - not bad grips at all. For a while, Federal SP primers have been difficult to find - I switched to Winchester, making thousands of such primed plinkers in .38. Sadly, I get a few clicks in my lightly sprung .357 Magnum revolvers with them, so I put them up. I left the 64 with a full strength Wolff hammer leaf spring as it was intended as a house gun and dependability was foremost. It has thousands of rounds of plinkers now at it's disposal, so it still 'sneaks away' for range trips.

    A 64 is a 64, no matter the build date. They are all +P rated - hit pretty close to POA 10-15yd downrange with Remington R38S12 +P 158gr LHPSWCs. My plinkers - 125gr LRNFP/JHPs - alike hit close enough to drop rebounding steel plates at that distance, too. Sadly, it's a fine SPC revolver, too. Those HKS #10 speedloaders I had work perfectly with it - of course! It is just a SS 10, after all. Great protection - but a fine plinker, too. If you don't have one - you need one!

    Stainz
     
  10. Landric

    Landric Member

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    TJ, all the square butt guns are pre-lock, pre-MIM. The round butt ones are hit or miss on both counts, I'm not sure if you can request one or the other. I purchased one of them (a 64-5) around the beginning of the year. Its a square butt with forged parts and no IL. It has some dings and scratches, but appears to have been shot little. It was very clean. I've yet to shoot it. If I can ever get some spare cash together it will likely become a project gun of some kind. I'd like to get one of the NY-1s (they are all pre-lock, pre-MIM since NYPD stopped allowing revolvers for new officers in 1993 or 1994, none of them were built after that). Again, cash is always the issue.
     
  11. Thaddeus Jones

    Thaddeus Jones Member

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    Thanks Landric!

    Stainz - While I appreciate the info, you could not GIVE me a S&W revolver with the internal lock. I disagree that every S&W model 64 is equal. If I could overcome the lock, and I won't, the MIM parts are there. Overlooking those, the new production revolvers are ugly, again IMO. The two piece barrel is crap, and is even being abandoned by S&W according to a memo they sent my dealer.

    I spend too much money and time every year making sure my guns are reliable, to waste any money on a handgun with an obvious (to me) flaw. ALL my handguns must be able to be used for serious. It is foolish in the extreme to use one of those IL guns for any serious purpose, IMO.

    I have personally seen two lock up at the range, and that is more than enough for me. Having read your pro stance on current production S&W revolvers on all the other boards, let me save you the time and effort of a response by saying the following.

    1) I've been buying and shooting S&W revolvers since 1976.

    2) The last NEW S&W revolver I purchased is my lock free PC 586-5 L-comp.

    3) I've never had a revolver fail to go bang for any reason.

    4) I've never had a high primer.

    5) I'm not missing out on anything by refusing to consider S&W's current products. I've reviewed their 2009 catalog.

    6) I purchased eight LNIB S&W pre lock revolvers this year, and could care less what S&W does. As far as I'm concerned (and several dozen other S&W fans I compete with) S&W went out of business in 2001.

    Thanks again for the info! TJ
     
  12. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    it is hard to type because I am standing on my chair cheering for Thadeus and his nicely worded comment.

    BTW
    what is with all of the bobbed hammers on the 64's at J&G? Is that some department's idea of a "DAO"?
     
  13. gunnie

    gunnie Member

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    ..."Is that some department's idea of a "DAO"? "...

    yep, and they MEAN DA...ONLY !! the two 64 RB revolvers i got have a step machined on the hammer rear radius that will hit on the rear of the frame hammer relief cut before the hammer could engage a single action catch.

    so even starting the DA stroke and grabbing the hammer at the top to manually engage single action is not possible without changing parts.

    gunnie
     
  14. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    Thank you Gunnie,

    That adds fifty bucks to the cost of the gun to fix the idiotic modifications. They don't seem like such a deal anymore
     
  15. StephenT

    StephenT Member

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    Here's a photo of my S&W model 64, picked up recently at a gun show. I paid $399 + tax for mine, but it's in great condition and doesn't have the dreaded Clinton lock.

    Can someone please tell me the approximate year of production for serial #D7973XX. It is stamped D.P.D. Thanks a lot!
     

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  16. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    #D7973XX was likely made around 1976-1977. D.P.D. Could be a number of police departments, but Detroit is the most likely. For a $50.00 search fee, S&W will go back and look in their records and then send you an official letter with the complete details.
     
  17. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    The modification was far from idiotic. Crooked lawyers were making a fortune convincing big-city juries that an officer had really caused a wrongful death because they had cocked their revolver, and under the stress of the situation accidentally pulled the “hair trigger.” Usually this was pure bull – but the officer had no way to prove what he had or hadn’t done, so it was up to the jury to believe whomever they wanted to believe, and often it wasn’t the officer.

    After paying out millions of dollars in judgments – most of which the lawyers got – the cities and federal agencies decided to have issued revolvers modified to double-action only (DAO) which was inexpensive, and stopped the attorneys in their tracks. However the gun had to be – unquestionably - double-action only.

    These modified guns are a great buy if you use them as they are, or make further modifications that cost little or nothing. They also make a good platform for a project, if it’s understood that in the end the cost might be higher then an unmodified one of the same kind. True custom guns are seldom inexpensive, but they reflect exactly what the owner wants.

    Also a DAO pistol or revolver may give a civilian user some protection against being sued in a civil action following what was a justified shooting. Those bottom-feeding lawyers are still around. :barf:
     
  18. StephenT

    StephenT Member

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    Thanks Old Fuff, I do appreciate it.
     
  19. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    Old Fuff,

    Thank you. Finally, after years of following you, somewhat in awe, you have finally said something wrong. YOU ARE HUMAN!!! :what:

    I could start by asking how many DAO revolvers you own but I am pretty sure the answer is zero.

    It is just plain wrong to handicap officers with such a gun for the sake of some bean counter somewhere. It is a terrible idea to ensure that all trigger pulls are the longest and heaviest that they can be.

    A single action shot is more accurate and easier and it should be against the law to take that more effective shot away from the man standing between the criminal and the citizen.
     
  20. RDak

    RDak Member

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    You won't be sorry. I told a couple of guys about those at J&G and they like them alot.

    Bobbed hammers but they are nightstand guns for both of them. (I saw both of the guns and they were in good shape and solid mechanically IMHO. I put new springs in them that were at 15 lbs instead of the 16 lbs standard strength and did a little stoning for them. The actions are very nice IMHO.)

    ETA: Don't know for sure if you could buy a new hammer and just drop it in though. (I would imagine you could but I'd call S&W first.) I told them to buy new hammers but they didn't mind the bobbed hammers FWIW.
     
  21. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I AM NOT HUMAN!!! And I’m never wrong – just sometimes confused… :confused:

    Oh gosh, I’ve lost count of the number. There were several home-built Fitz Special Colt’s, and my first S&W model 60 (from the 1st production run) didn’t have a hammer spur very long, and then there were various S&W Safety Hammerless revolvers (O.K., so I’m an addict). There is only one revolver I ever pocket carried that still had a hammer spur (if there was one in the first place) and of all things, it’s a Taurus!

    You are correct in that ALL of the revolvers that I might carry or use for serious purposes have had the hammer spurs removed or been rendered DAO, but I expect that if push comes to shove I will use that mode.

    Most “social use” of a handgun is conducted at very close range, and happens quickly! On the other hand a well trained double-action shooter can do what ever needs to be done out as far as 50 yards. Bill Jordan removed any doubt I might have had concerning this. The problem with combat-accurate, longer distance shooting is that most people these days don’t know how to do it, and therefore don’t. It is also helpful to have a revolver with a decent action which is totally reliable under any conditions.

    For once, bean counters weren’t behind this, lawyers (on both sides in one way or another) were.

    Not necessarily so, and thumb-cocking and precise sight alignment may not be a practical choice under gunfighting conditions. On the other hand it is not difficult to make accurate shots, while using the sights and a double-action trigger – if you understand how to do it. ;)
     
  22. gunnie

    gunnie Member

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    ..." It is a terrible idea to ensure that all trigger pulls are the longest and heaviest that they can be."...

    bypassing the political aspects, the as-issued DA was not bad at all. have handled many OEM S&W standard production models with DA pulls considerably heavier. perhaps a little tighter QC required by the PDs on that production run for double action pull weights? same a function of it being both plan "A" and "B". plus, it would have to be light enough for the weakest officer in the department to shoot.

    i only modified the one i put the rib on because i wanted a faster toy.

    gunnie
     
  23. Guillermo

    Guillermo member

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    well Fuffmiester, I am truly stunned that you would advocate this modification on a duty gun.

    It is my opinion that there is no good reason to modify a double action revolver to be single action only and a LOT of reasons not to. I opine that it is silly to make a gun less versatile and not gain a single practical advantage.


    I do admit that I do own one bobbed hammer revolver, a Smith 36 that I traded for. At least it makes SOME sense for a pocket gun to be despurred but certainly not modifying the action to be incapable of shooting SA.

    Then comes another shocker
    What other secrets do you have? Have a collection of Rohms? :eek:
     
  24. MrBorland

    MrBorland Moderator

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    I don't have a dog in this fight, but I gotta say I'm with Old Fuff on this one. And to be honest, while I understand everyone's entitled to an opinion, I don't understand your vehemence (or your disrespect), especially on this particular issue. While many choose to leave the gun as-is, the logic behind rendering defensive revolvers DAO is well-established. Here's some additional reading on the matter.

    http://grantcunningham.com/blog_files/the_case_for_dao.html
     
  25. John Wayne

    John Wayne Member

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    If these were 2" or 3" guns I wouldn't have a problem with the bobbed hammer. In a heavy-barreled 4" gun I'd like to have the SA option.

    Model 64 is K frame, correct?
     
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