Using Turret as Progressive

[RPCVYemen]

I realized while I was reading another thread, that I am really using my Lyman T-Mag as more of a convenient single stage than as a turret.

I tend to load in 50 round batches (45 LC). Here's what I do:

1. Take 100 rounds out of the tumbler
2. Set up 2 50 rounds reloading trays
3. Move turret to station #1
4. De-cap prime 100 rounds
5. Clean the primer holes - brass goes in tray, head side up
6. Prime all 100 with a manual primer
7. Brass goes back in the reloading tray, primer side up
8. Move turret to station #2
9. Expand neck/powder fill fifty rounds
10. Brass goes back in the trays, mouth up
11. Inspect all 50 rounds with work light to make sure I didn't skip any
12. Move turret to station #3
13. Set bullets in cartridges - there's a strong light over my shoulder, and I check for powder in case as I move case to shellholder
14. Cartridges go back in tray bullet side down
15. Move turret to station #4
16. Taper crimp each round
17. Each round goes in ammo storage box

The first time I reloaded, I left the round in the shell holder, and moved the turret 4 times per round. That seemed slower to me. I did not feel absolutely sure that I could not miss the powder fill stage.

The way I do it, there are three checks that I have not skipped putting powder in case, or double charged:

1. Cartridge is in tray, mouth side down before I put powder it in. I only turn it mouth side up after I put powder in it.
   
2. Check with worklight that all 50 rounds look alike in tray. One time I did skip one somehow, and it stuck out like a sore thumb with the other 49 cartridges in the tray.
   
3. Check for squib with quick glance before I seat bullet.

Is this likely to be slower than using turret more like progressive (i.e., finishing one bullet at a time)? Does anyone else use the turret this way?

Mike

 

[GRIZ22]

It seems to me you could do what you're doing with a single stage press. The only added step would be to change and adjust the die.

This is not a bad thing however. You seem attentive to double checks and ensuring things are done correctly. I've been reloading for almost 35 years and I use a turret press in a similar fashion you do or even, how ancient, a single stage press. Production output may not be as fast as a progressive but I have no problems with my ammo.

Progressive presses are fine but I think there are too many people who pull the handle 50 times for a box of ammo and give little if any thought to checks in the process. These are the same people who talk about problmes with their ammo squibs, inconsistent powder charges, crushed primers, no primer, double charges, split cases, etc. Benchrest shooters are probably the people most concerned about ammo quality and I've never met one that used a progressive (there may be some out there I've never met them).

I am more concerned about the quality of my ammo than production rate. You seem to be the same way. If it works for you don't worry about how fast you crank them out.

 

[snuffy]

This is not a bad thing however. You seem attentive to double checks and ensuring things are done correctly. I've been reloading for almost 35 years and I use a turret press in a similar fashion you do or even, how ancient, a single stage press. Production output may not be as fast as a progressive but I have no problems with my ammo.

Here's where a powder check die comes into use, or a lock-out die. It eliminates the need to "look into" each case after it's charged.

Progressive presses are fine but I think there are too many people who pull the handle 50 times for a box of ammo and give little if any thought to checks in the process. These are the same people who talk about problems with their ammo squibs, inconsistent powder charges, crushed primers, no primer, double charges, split cases, etc. Benchrest shooters are probably the people most concerned about ammo quality and I've never met one that used a progressive (there may be some out there I've never met them).

Better tell that to David Tubb, winner of a slew of NRA high-power matches at camp Perry. He uses a 550 Dillon to load his match winning ammo.

I use a 650 Dillon to load match ammo for my bushy AR. I did a comparison between trickled varget charges, and charges thrown by a Hornady measure on a case activated die. Velocity ES and SD and targets were the SAME!

As long as you're not out to break speed records, a progressive can and will load accurate ammo. For match ammo, I do all case prep separate from the progressive loading process. Cases are sorted as for headstamp, minimally sized and deprimed in a single stage press,(lee collet sizer), trimmed, chamfered and lubed prior to being tossed into the case feeder.

As far as the OP for his Lyman turret, I HAD a spar-T a long time ago. The T-mag is an outgrowth of the spar-T. Bear in mind that the turret HAS to be really tightly assembled to the center post. That requires the big nut to be tightened each time the turret is moved to another die. Otherwise the turret itself will deflect under pressure when performing sizing ,belling, or seating operations. IF it deflects, it will produce crooked ammo. Add to that "C" type presses like the T-mag spring some anyway, they are NOT as solid as an "O" type press.

 

[RPCVYemen]

I may have been somewhat vague in my original question - I didn't intend to ask about Dillon presses.

I am just curious about using the turret as I do (more or less as a single stage press with pre-set dies) and people who use the turret more or less as a turret - i.e, they leave one round in the shell holder and work it through all the stations until they have a completed round, and then start another round, etc. I am guessing that's what the auto-indexing turrets do.

Mike

 

[RustyFN]

Mike, my turret is auto indexing so I load each round complete before starting another one. I can load 200 per hour at a comfortable pace looking in each case to make sure of the powder charge before I set the bullet on. I would think the way you are doing it would be fine and faster than a SS because your dies are setup and you don't have to change them.
Rusty

 

[GRIZ22]

As long as you're not out to break speed records, a progressive can and will load accurate ammo.

Snuffy, that's the problem with many people who use a progressive. If it works for you and it's safe don't change it.

 

[PsychoKnight]

Progressive does not mean progressive
Mike, the confusion comes from the term in your title, "Progressive," which in reloading, doesn't mean "progressive." In reloading, instead of having the meaning of sequential and incremental, progressive actually means simultaneous. All stages are performed at the same time by using multiple dies and cases to achieve a loaded round with each pull of the press handle.

Not your fault - there should have been a completely different term to describe a progressive press. What you are discussing is the distinction between batch processing and turrent processing ("turrent" is the term for the type of press, "turret" is the word for the rotating head and used in model names, i.e. Classic Turret, T-Mag Turret).

Aside from not replacing dies on a single stage between each reloading step, the second advantage of the turrent presses is to provide economy of motion by eliminating the need to place and remove the case in the shellholder more than once for each round. Instead of moving shells as much, you move a turrent head - which to me, is just as much work or more. I have a T-Mag also, and load faster by batch processing than constantly rotating the head. Auto-indexing turrents like the Classic Turret by Lee eliminates the extra hand motion of manually rotating the turret head, and you retain the advantages of not having to remove/replace dies, or shell cases between steps.

This is probably the reason the Lee Classic Turret and the 3 and 4 hole Lee Turrets outsell all other brands of turrent presses by a huge margin. That, plus they have a much more convenient primer system which doesn't use primer tubes or plastic strips.

 

[PsychoKnight]

Progressive does not mean progressive

(double post delete)

 

[creekwalker]

Mike,

In my opinion you are utilizing your Lyman Turret press in a manner that best suits your needs. Whether you realize it or not you are still saving time and effort, while producing reliable ammunition which you have run quality assurance checks on while producing it. The benefits offered by a manual indexing turret press are its versatility of pre set dies and ability to either batch load or produce one completed round at a time. I use an auto index Lee Classic Cast turret press which I can also use as a conventional turret press should I choose to do so.

Creekwalker

 

[RPCVYemen]

In reloading, instead of having the meaning of sequential and incremental, progressive actually means simultaneous.

OK. I think I get this. On a true progressive - like the Dillon - all stages are performed simultaneously, but on different rounds. So when you pull the handle once, that one pull de-primes and resizes one round while at the same time expanding another round at the same time seating a bullet in another round at the same time crimping another round. That implies that every time you pull the handle, you get a completed round. Assuming 5 stages (for example). to process 100 rounds, you'd need to pull the handle 104 times (the first 4 being the setup phase).

The turrets that are labeled "progressive" are just moving the turret with with the press handle, so you still need to pull the handle down once for each stage of each round. But you don't need to manually move the turret. So for 5 stages for 100 rounds, you need to pull the handle 500 times.

The turret that is not labeled "progressive", you have to turn the turret by hand, so you have 500 handle pulls plus 500 turret moves. Or with batch processing - as I am doing - there are only 5 turret moves, but I have to put each rounds in the shell holder for each state - there are 500 "case" manipulations.

So for the "non-progressive" turret, the two choices are between moving the turret more times or inserting and removing the round from the shell holder more times?

If this is correct, I think that I have a clearer picture. Avoiding the word "progressive" as a marketing term, you have parallel processing (Dillon), automated serial processing (auto-index turret), and manual serial processing.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[SSN Vet]

parallel processing (Dillon), automated serial processing (auto-index turret), and manual serial processing

that's good, descriptive terminology.

 

[creekwalker]

Having used both an auto indexing progressive press as well as an auto indexing turret press I tend to observe the similarities more so than the difference. That said the primary difference between a progressive press and a turret press is that a loaded round is produced after either the third, fourth or fifth pull of the handle with an additional round on each subsequent pull. The turret head of the progressive is either manually indexed or automatically indexed. To further ease the assembly process some progressive presses have automatic shell feeders and some an automatic bullet feeder. Neither of these options are necessary and some people do not like or want them on their press. So in the scheme of things your Lyman Turret is not a progressive press, but rather a convenient, user friendly press which like a progressive allows you to keep your preadjusted dies and powder measure in place.

Creekwalker

 

[Matt-man]

"turrent" is the term for the type of press, "turret" is the word for the rotating head and used in model names

Huh? Where did you learn that? I always assumed "turrent" was just a misspelling of "turret."

 

[birddog]

Huh? Where did you learn that? I always assumed "turrent" was just a misspelling of "turret."

My Lee Turret doesn't say anywhere that it's a "turrent". I'm 99% sure that's just a carryover of a common misspelling.