USPS at their finest!

[JTHunter]

5) Do not trust the PO with anything of value.

Things haven't changed in 40 years!

Wasn't "valuable" - except for the memories involved.
In 1976, I was on a college field trip to the San Diego area (and others) when I mailed 3 10x14 manila envelopes back to my parents in Illinois so I didn't have to lug around the maps, brochures, etc., collected on the first 2/3rds of this trip.
When I got home, only one had shown up, despite being mailed registered mail. If they traced them (like I asked them too), they never found anything (big surprise, right?).

 

[toivo]

I had a similar problem. The USPS re-cycles their tracking numbers. What you saw as delivered to B.F. Utah was the destination of the previously sent package with the same tracking number.

They aren't the only ones. I bought a guitar off eBay, and when it hadn't arrived a week and a half later, I contacted UPS. Their system showed it as delivered to an address two states away on the day that it had supposedly shipped. Then they and the seller started pointing fingers at each other about who had given me the wrong tracking number and where the guitar actually was.

Finally it showed up on my doorstep, with no explanation of why it had taken so long.

 

[hemiram]

I had this happen with a 3 gun sale on GB a couple years ago. It all started with the buyer of a Beretta 92FS sent a copy of an FFL 500 miles away from him in Lincoln, NE instead of someplace in Indiana. My FFL sent the 92FS there. He held it "hostage" and hit me $50 to send it back to my FFL. I was not happy. My FFL goofed up and let one gun, a Dan Wesson 15-2 sit in his safe for a couple of weeks while swearing he sent it out. Finally he calls me and says it's in his safe. And the last gun, a S&W 4586, went to the wrong FFL, totally due to my FFL screwing up. At least he didn't hold it hostage and sent it back for nothing. Instead of a 4-5 day waiting period, it took almost a month to get it all straightened out. I use another FFL now. I like the old one, but sheesh, he's messing up too much these days. I guess age is catching up with him.

 

[dogtown tom]

This is why dealers won't give their FFL to anyone.....

bikemutt

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom View Post
Why does the receiving FFL need a copy of his own license?
I'm sure he already has more than a few.

The receiving FFL may not need a copy of his own license,...

"May not"? How about absolutely, positively there is no need for a copy of the receiving dealers OWN FFL?

however if the rifle becomes lost in transit or otherwise becomes the subject of some investigation, it demonstrates the shipper believed the rifle was shipped to an FFL dealer.

Huh?
That doesn't demonstrate anything.......the address on the shipping label does. Are you aware that it's perfectly legal to ship a rifle or shotgun directly to another resident of your own state? Oh my goodness! I don't have an FFL to put in the box in case it "becomes the subject of some investigation".

Bud's, Palmetto, Kentucky Gun, Sportsmans Guide, Sportsmans Outdoor, Grabagun, Glock, S&W, Ruger, SIG don't send me a copy of my own FFL, nor does any other licensed dealer or manufacturer.......NEVER. It's not needed for any reason.

Do any of ya'll get why fewer and fewer dealers refuse to receive firearm shipments from nonlicensees? It's nonsense like this.

I receive 2000+ guns a year for transfer. The only ones that send me a copy of my own FFL are the same nonlicensees that pack guns like a kindergartner (wrapped in newspaper like a fish, duct tape and wadded up paper in a used box).

 

[bikemutt]

Do any of ya'll get why fewer and fewer dealers refuse to receive firearm shipments from nonlicensees? It's nonsense like this

So you get a copy of your own FFL in a shipment and that has you all tied up in knots, lol.

I've had my own FFL shake his head many times with what showed up from other FFLs so it's not like us non-licensees have the nonsense business cornered.

Real businesses include a packing slip with each shipment which clearly outlines who the shipment is being sent from, what's in the box, and, especially important in the case of an Interstate firearm shipment, who it's being shipped to. They don't do this just to waste paper, it documents the key elements of a shipment once it's left their business.

Why not just shred the unnecessary piece of paper and be thankful we are selling guns to your customers from whom you make a living? There's no reason to insult those of us who see fit to conduct shipments in a fashion that's more cautious than you feel we should be.

 

[Poper]

the receiving ffl may not need a copy of his own license, however if the rifle becomes lost in transit or otherwise becomes the subject of some investigation, it demonstrates the shipper believed the rifle was shipped to an ffl dealer.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

 

[Poper]

dogtown tom,

It might surprise you, but many of the clerks at the local USPS do not know all of the regulations regarding shipping of a firearm.

There is no requirement to notify USPS that you are shippping a rifle or shotgun. There are no forms to give them, you do not need to show them the FFL of the receiving dealer.

I was specifically asked (when investigating the missing shipped rifle) if the clerk receiving the box had checked and verified the rifle was unloaded. I responded that there was no requirement to for USPS to know what was inside the box other than it was not hazardous, explosive or perishable via verbal confirmation and the rifle was none of those. A verbal exchange ensued and I assured the clerks (multiple by this time) that there was no regulation requiring disclosure for the same reason USPS required the box be free of any markings indicating the content of the box was a firearm and that I would stand corrected if anyone would show me a written rule or policy stating otherwise. No one did, of course, but there were three dubious faces staring back at me.

Poper

 

[Poper]

Quote:
however if the rifle becomes lost in transit or otherwise becomes the subject of some investigation, it demonstrates the shipper believed the rifle was shipped to an FFL dealer.

Huh?
That doesn't demonstrate anything.......the address on the shipping label does.

Not really. The address does not necessarily identify the recipient as a FFL, unless maybe, the name of the address says dome thing like:
"Dogtown Tom's Licensed Firearms Retail Store #1
12345 North Longshot Avenue
Sometown, Otherstate 99999"

The name of the establishment that my rifle was addressed to had nothing in the title or address that would lead one to believe it was indeed a gun store.

 

[Ibmikey]

I have had several C&R purchases sent to the most obscure points by the USPS, Honolulu and Anchorage are two of the destinations my packages have met until redirected by the local postmaster. Currently my buddy has a GB purchase that was to be shipped to Spokane Wa and then to a local PO for delivery. The firearm went from Mo to Las Vegas (2nd day air) sat there two days, left into the clouds for two more days only to emerge in Anchorage Ak. It left Anchorage (twice...7 am then at 11:30 am) into the clouds for almost two days ending up in Spokane. Yesterday it left Spokane and has not been heard from since...the final destination is fifteen miles from Spokane but being a holiday weekend the small PO probably has no one to receive packages. So whereabouts unknown but hopefully at the original destination.
Maybe if stamps were raiised in price we could get better service....no wait a min that has been tried....over and over and over...........
In all fairness to the Postal System only about two percent of my mail is involved in the "tour the world" category and the remainder makes it within a reasonable time as we ( NW Washington State) are off the normal flow of traffic.

 

[dogtown tom]

Poper dogtown tom,

It might surprise you, but many of the clerks at the local USPS do not know all of the regulations regarding shipping of a firearm.

Doesn't surprise me in the least. I've been a licensed dealer for seven and a half years and realize that not all dealers have read the CFR 478, not all postal clerks or UPS/FedEx employees have read their regulations.......and even fewer nonlicensees bother as well.

In fact, I stood my ground when a local post office demanded a copy of my FFL when I was shipping a handgun. It took a few minutes of "education" and a call to a Postal Inspector....but now that local office isn't a problem.

Quote:
There is no requirement to notify USPS that you are shippping a rifle or shotgun. There are no forms to give them, you do not need to show them the FFL of the receiving dealer.

I was specifically asked (when investigating the missing shipped rifle) if the clerk receiving the box had checked and verified the rifle was unloaded. I responded that there was no requirement to for USPS to know what was inside the box other than it was not hazardous, explosive or perishable via verbal confirmation and the rifle was none of those. A verbal exchange ensued and I assured the clerks (multiple by this time) that there was no regulation requiring disclosure for the same reason USPS required the box be free of any markings indicating the content of the box was a firearm and that I would stand corrected if anyone would show me a written rule or policy stating otherwise. No one did, of course, but there were three dubious faces staring back at me.

Isn't that what I said above? (in far fewer words?)

 

[dogtown tom]

Poper Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
however if the rifle becomes lost in transit or otherwise becomes the subject of some investigation, it demonstrates the shipper believed the rifle was shipped to an FFL dealer.

Huh?
That doesn't demonstrate anything.......the address on the shipping label does.

Not really. The address does not necessarily identify the recipient as a FFL, unless maybe, the name of the address says dome thing like:
"Dogtown Tom's Licensed Firearms Retail Store #1
12345 North Longshot Avenue
Sometown, Otherstate 99999"

Yes, really........the shipping address must be to the licensed dealer. And that all that's required!

There is no requirement that it indicate that the addressee is a licensed gun dealer, and most certainly there is no need to include documentation inside the box to prove that.

The name of the establishment that my rifle was addressed to had nothing in the title or address that would lead one to believe it was indeed a gun store.

No kidding?
Bud's Guns (largest internet retailer of guns in the country) uses "BGS" and the name of their sales manager.

If Bud's doesn't see a need to include a copy of the receiving dealers FFL nor a copy of theirs nor use their actual name in the address field........why the heck does a nonlicensee?

You stood your ground when questioned about whether the rifle you shipped was unloaded, so why not just continue that practice with other nonexistent regulations?

 

[Poper]

You stood your ground when questioned about whether the rifle you shipped was unloaded, so why not just continue that practice with other nonexistent regulations?

My actions had little to do with non-existing regulations, especially IRT photographing the package before it is sealed and after it is addressed and when it is placed in the care of USPS. It has everything to do with making a claim in the event of a catastrophic failure of USPS. A copy of the receiving FFL's license packed inside the box might be beneficial if the shipping label was to become detached during shipment. If a USPS inspector was to open the box, he would then have two pieces of identification to reference: 1) my driver's license and 2) the FFL's license. That should be enough information for any inspector to be able to determine an address for delivery.

I admit I am not as smart or as intuitive as you are and I believe there are few USPS inspectors as smart or as intuitive, too.

JMHO, of course.

 

[kimberkid]

I've shipped long guns by USPS for well over a decade and never once had a problem.

I'm thinking it was just your turn in the barrel

Sorry you had a bad experience but considering all the packages they handle you have to expect an error rate of some kind and some poor soul is going to suffer for it ...

... I'm glad you didn't suffer too much.

 

[Poper]

I've shipped long guns by USPS for well over a decade and never once had a problem.

I'm thinking it was just your turn in the barrel

Sorry you had a bad experience but considering all the packages they handle you have to expect an error rate of some kind and some poor soul is going to suffer for it ...

... I'm glad you didn't suffer too much.

Yup. My turn. Not awe inspiring, I must say.

 

[kimberkid]

Yup. My turn. Not awe inspiring, I must say.

I can sympathize tho; in October of 2001 I'd ordered 2 eight pound kegs of BLC2 powder for reloading. It was supposedly delivered to my house, and was to be signed by an adult however where ever it was delivered, it wasn't my house and no signature was obtained. This was revealed after a couple weeks and it still hadn't shown up. An inspector showed up with the delivery man that had taken over for the regular guy that was on vacation ... he said that he didn't think he'd ever been to my house.
I don't know what ever happened but the company sent out a replacement order which I finally got about 2 months later ...

This headache was the result of FedEx incompetence ... less than a month after 9-11

 

[Cleveland48]

Stuff like this make me nervous! I'll soon be shipping my treasured Python to gunsmith Frank Glenn, for some timing work and I've never shipped a gun before and really don't know what to do. I'll be a nervous wreck even more now lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Twiki357]

I’ve never had a problem with the USPS. USPS has actually just out done itself…. Sort of.

I made an online Gunbroker purchase Friday afternoon. Email from seller said it shipped Saturday from West Virginia to Arizona with a USPS tracking number. Sunday, then Monday holiday and I picked it up from my FFL this afternoon (Tuesday)… WOW!

But the USPS tracking number doesn’t show it as picked up in WV yet so I’m not sure if I really picked it up or just imagined it, but it is in my hot little hand.

 

[H&R Glock]

I had my FFl many years ago. At that time the regulations said the address was to contain the second and third and the last 5 digits of the ffl number on the package. When was that changed?????

 

[dogtown tom]

total recoil I had my FFl many years ago. At that time the regulations said the address was to contain the second and third and the last 5 digits of the ffl number on the package. When was that changed?????

There has never been such a requirement by either ATF or the USPS.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

There has never been such a requirement by either ATF or the USPS.

Maybe not but I had to do it when I mailed a Dan Wesson back to the factory. This was at the post office in Oneonta,Al. in the mid-late 1970s.

 

[herkyguy]

I shipped a slide years ago to have tritium sights installed. The guy specifically wanted me to use USPS, so i did. I already did not trust the USPS and would have preferred UPS or FEDEX. Anyhow, he ships it back, the tracking thing says delivered, but it wasn't in my mailbox.

Unsure of the legal implications, I about freaked.

Two days later, it shows up in my mailbox with a post-it note from the driver saying sorry, he had put it in the wrong mailbox. So one of my neighbors got a random gun slide in the mail....

I get it, the USPS serves a purpose, especially in rural parts of America, but for goodness sake if management of the USPS could just intern for a few weeks at either FEDEX or UPS, they sure could learn a lot about customer service.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I've had way more problems with USPS than any other shipping company. I avoid them when possible, and much prefer FedEx for anything gun related (and in general) with UPS a distant second.

 

[Coop45]

+1 Poper..... I doubt that many clerks have even heard of the Domestic Mail Manual.

 

[Poper]

+1 Poper..... I doubt that many clerks have even heard of the Domestic Mail Manual.

Oh, I'm reasonably certain that they've heard of it, I sincerely doubt, however, that they have either seen or read it.