Tell me what you guys think about lost or stolen shipments?

[El Rojo]

As some of you might know I opened up a firearms business a year ago and now I am doing mail order for CA legal AR15 compliance parts all up and down the state. I have been building my operation after excellent customer service and I want to try and continue to do so.

Here is my problem. I ship most of my packages USPS Priority Mail. In the vast majority of the cases everything gets to where it is going within two days with now problems. USPS insurance costs too much money and I really don't want to pass it on to the cusomter, so I just ship things. I sort of figure if the PO loses something before it gets delivered, since I don't insure the items, I will take the hit and replace them.

My question is what happens when the track and confirm says the item was delivered? I am not too keen on replacing "lost" items that the USPS is claiming were delivered. Second, even if I did insure the package, would I be able to file a claim even though it says delivered? I was just checking their website and it said "Indemnity is not paid for insured mail, Registered Mail, COD, or Express Mail in these situations: b. Loss, rifling, or damage occurred after delivery by the USPS."

So what do you guys expect out of a company? Should they replace your items if they are listed as delivered, but you still never received them? Should a business have to replace items that are listed as delivered? Let me know what you think.

 

[rickfifty]

With Delivery Confirmation, the carrier can just scan it "delivered" and drop it off. No proof. I would use Signature Confirmation. That way someone has to be home & has to sign for it. Not much more $ than regular confirmation.

 

[Froggy]

Ditto; request signature confirmation.

Hasn't happened lately, but a few years ago, right around this time of year (holiday mailings and all), a couple of kids* would hop on their bikes and follow the UPS, FedEx, and USPS trucks through the neighborhood as they made their deliveries. If something was left on the porch because no one was home to take delivery, the kids would just peddle up and grab it.

I lost a couple of items this way, and didn't even know it until I got a call from the local PD who had found my name and credit card info in the kids' stash when they busted the ring. Didn't get my stuff back (apparently already fenced), but did get a heads up that it looked like the kids were using the invoices and receipts packed with the shipments to build files so they could move onto credit card scamming (ID theft).

Called the sellers of the stuff I lost and basically got the "sorry, our records show it was delivered. Do you want to reorder?"

* ages 12 - 14.

 

[rbernie]

NOBODY likes signature confirmation unless they're unemployed or have a stay-at-home spouse. I universally include a delivery signature release with every online order that I place. There is nothing worse than coming home from work and finding a little yellow tag telling me that I have a package waiting somewhere that's already closed so I can't go get it.

Delivery confirmation only adds about fifty cents to each package; I use it often. Truth be told, I also use insurance a great deal; it automatically begets delivery tracking and I just don't find the extra charges to be that onerous.

My question is what happens when the track and confirm says the item was delivered? I am not too keen on replacing "lost" items that the USPS is claiming were delivered.

Your job is to reasonably ensure that the customer gets what they paid for. Using PRIORITY shipping and having demonstrable delivery confirmation does just that. You can't be responsible for the customer's local carrier or their neighbors.

If the package gets lost prior to delivery confirmation, I feel that the shipper has the onus to make things right. Once the carrier indicates that the package has been dropped off, your job is done.

 

[Third_Rail]

Your job is to reasonably ensure that the customer gets what they paid for. Using PRIORITY shipping and having demonstrable delivery confirmation does just that. You can't be responsible for the customer's local carrier or their neighbors.

If the package gets lost prior to delivery confirmation, I feel that the shipper has the onus to make things right. Once the carrier indicates that the package has been dropped off, your job is done.

I disagree. We've lost 1 out of every 9 shipments in the past months, and I guarantee you that at least a few were marked "delivered" by the USPS delivery confirmation. EVERYTHING that didn't get to where it was supposed to go (based on the customer's word) has been or, if more recent, is being replaced.

 

[hotpig]

Since you use Delivery Confirmation and it shows that the Postal Employee physically scanned the package as delivered you have done your part.

If you self insure or use the rather pricey USPS Insurance you have to make it good. I self insure so I would pay if it happened. So far it never has but I have received packages back weeks after they were lost. I do use the USPS Insurance on guns that I ship.

It sounds like you use the cheapest shipping as a courtesy to your customers. This does help you to get an edge on your competition but you have to decide how far you are willing to go.

 

[Soybomb]

If a seller doesn't give me the option of insured shipment and I don't get the package, he better not try to tell me the USPS says delivered and he's done with me or I'll be very unhappy.

I think you need to switch to UPS/fedex and make exceptions for smaller items.

 

[MisterPX]

As much as signature required sucks, it's the only way to be sure the package makes it itto the buyers place. Jusr because teh PO says it was delivered doesn't mean the customer received it. If you were teh customer, and you paid a bunch of money for something, and the PO left it at someone elses house, or on your step and it disappeared, would you suck it up? No, you'd be saying where's my stuff and filing a chargeback.

You could always list sig requirements on your shipping, and if the buyer declines, you are not responsible if the package doesn't make it into the buyers house.

 

[Monkeybear]

Ive had packages "delivered" by being placed on my doorstep. I live in an apt complex. Ive also been unable to find packages the usps claimed were delivered. We dont all live in "dont even lock our doors" neighborhoods.

Believe me the cost of having to go to the post office to sign for your package is worth actually getting it. Your customers dislike of having to go to the post office and sign for packages is worth it in the money you save by not having to replace items and in the time saved by not having to reship items.

Signed confirmation, its not the most comfortable solution but its the best one.

 

[308win]

It is extra effort but give your customers the option of insurance and/or signature required and let them chose the level of risk they are willing to assume. Use USPS on line shipping document print service and your customer and you get tracking number free that proves you delivered into USPS hands. At that point you have done your job.

 

[hotpig]

No easy answers here today.

Really it just depends on my work schedule.I would rather not buy from a company that requires a signature on delivery. Even if they had a better price it would not be worth the hassel if I was working extra days when it was delivered.

 

[iiibdsiil]

The deal is definitely not done until the customer receives the goods. Not when UPS or whoever drops it off, but when the physically get the goods in their HANDS.

The customer is paying for it anyways, it's not coming out of your pocket, so require insurance on the items. Use Fedex or UPS (*cough* Fedex *cough*), and let the customer bite the shipping. You can put a cheaper shipping option, but make sure it at least includes delievery confirmation or a tracking number, then you can have a disclaimer stating when the package is dropped to Fedex, USPS, you are no longer responsible. I betcha once they see that, they'll opt for the insurance.

You can also put up a notice on your website, or let the customer know on the phone that "Due to problems with the shipping carriers, all products now require insurance." Then, you can insure them for your cost on them(the replacement cost) instead of retail, and save a couple cents/dollars.

 

[zoom6zoom]

BTW, if you use the USPS "click & ship", you get delivery confirmation free.

 

[Aries-]

there was something like this up here in canada.

this guy mail ordered a revolver. and the seller didnt have signeture confirmation. and the postman scanned it and left it on the guys front porch. the buyer was freaking pissed to say the least. no one stole it. but to come home to your brand new $700 gun sitting on your porch heh. thats not good.

as much as an inconveniance as it may be for some people. i would say signature confermation is the best bet for you. makes sure the package got to someone there, and makes your job of replacing things easyer.

just my 2 cents.

 

[akodo]

what about offering your customers two different shipping choices? 'bare bones' and 'signature required, plus insurance'

 

[Coltdriver]

The answer to your question is fairly simple.

Calculate the cost of the lost shipments and compare that to insurance via the post office. The answer is do the least expensive of the two.

The post office requires a signature on insured parcels.

With a scanned parcel (delivery confirmation) one of two things happens. Either the carrier scans the item delivered and puts it in the mail box or, if the patron has a signed on file authorization, the carrier can put the item on the porch.

If I had a lost item I would be calling the responsible post master and be asking for an inquiry. If the patron has no on file authorization to leave the item in a location other than the mail box then you can force them to pay for it if it is not delivered. If you threaten to call the district office, they will do back flips to make the delivery right.

Alternatively you might be delivering to bad neighborhoods where packages are routinely stolen.

If insurance is less than parts replacement just set a policy that says either the customer pays for insurance or you are not responsible for delivery of the product.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

USPS sucks big time. When I used them it was a disaster. Shipments 6 weeks late, never got there and customers emailing me "where is my purchase" over 1\3rd of the time. Took over 6 months for them to pay off on one insurance claim. Was selling vintage stereo equipment on Ebay and items averaged $300-600.00. Using USPS I was loosing time and money. Finally got smart and started using FedEx. No more lost, late shipments and only 2 damage claims out of over 500 items and they were promptly taken care of within in 2 weeks. I cannot say what a relief it is not to have to worry about shipping anymore. And not to mention not have to wait in line anymore. And FedEx runs the USPS Priority Mail which has a better record than parcel post but is a lot more expensive. Also I have a good friend who is good friends with a letter carrier and he has been told that the USPS tracking and delivery confirmation is a joke.

 

[rbernie]

I've shipped at least a hundred packages this year via USPS, and not one was lost, stolen, or waylaid. If the value was less than $50, I shipped First Class. If the value was greater than $50, I usually used PRIORITY (with o without insurance, depending on the value and the customer).

My packages are pretty much around one cubic foot in volume; I suspect that helps.

The $8 flat-rate PRIORITY box from USPS is a godsend.

 

[dawg23]

Rojo:

I think it's pretty simple.

Tell all your customers, as orders are placed, that your policy is to ship USPS w/ signature required. Give them the option to waive the sig requirement, but if they do, inform them that they are also waiving any right to ask for a replacement.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

rbernie.

You are wrong. I learned this one the hard way. I used to think the way you do until it came down on me. Intent is not enough, nor is evidence the item was sent, the end customer has to actually receive the item paid for. It is not enough that you have evidence you sent it to them or that someone said they delivered it. This ended up being a very long & expensive lesson for me.

 

[rbernie]

I sez:

I've shipped at least a hundred packages this year via USPS, and not one was lost, stolen, or waylaid.

And yet:

rbernie.

You are wrong.

Hokey. Thanks for the insight.

It is not enough that you have evidence you sent it to them or that someone said they delivered it.

I disagree. I'll take responsibility right up to the point where the carrier either fulfills their job or flatly lies about it. Either way, the outcome is too far out of my hands for me to internalize it. I clearly suggest insurance in large print, but I don't push it. If the buyer chooses NOT to insure their package, they have made that choice.

I don't suggest stiffing a customer, and I don't think that throwing it in the mail and ignoring the outcome is reasonable. But I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and I'm not going to cry over a problem that hasn't been a problem for me.

YMMV, and it clearly does.

 

[MErl]

as a one who receives packages, I would rather have to sign for it. I'll go to the UPS office during lunch or USPS after work. Fedex though is far away to pick it up sooo...


really, provide "shipped at your loss" "sign for at my cost" as the options and all is good.

 

[Sir Aardvark]

Tell the customer that you ship INSURED and SIGNATURE REQUIRED as a matter of routine and that they pay the actual shipping costs.

But... offer them the choice of lowering their shipping costs by being able to choose the method that they want, AT THEIR OWN RISK!.

This places the burden on them and absolves you from any blame. It is fair to you and it is fair to them and you can sleep soundly at night knowing that you did everything square and level.

Or... conversely -

Just let it be known up front, IN BIG BOLD LETTERS (so that there is no misunderstanding), that if you ship a product, you consider it delivered - no matter what - and if the customer has any complaint then there is no recourse whatsoever because this is a condition of them doing business with you - sorta like a contract.
Of course this is not a good way to engender goodwill amongst your clientele (if you have any left by running your business this way), but again, it absolves you from all blame.

 

[katrianya]

Use signature required and strongly suggest shipment to a business address if they have somewhere they can receive packages. I know atleast FedEx to a business address is cheaper, and normally will pose less problems (other employees to sign for package, not left on doorstep, ect.). FedEx Ground to a business may even be cheaper than USPS Parcel Post. USPS to residences or pass on the FedEx surcharge to the customer who requests residential. Non signature-required available upon special request to those who cannot figure out a way to sign for it, and just explain in each case that it will still be sent delivery confirmation, the downfalls of receiving unattended packages and that you will be unable to replace orders that have been confirmed delivered but recipient did not get if there is no signature.

 

[Socrates]

I've shipped nearly 300 items in the last couple months, and, most of it has gone USPS, since it's been books, and you can't beat the media rate from the USPS.

That said, I have found FEDEX ground to be cheaper then all but media. But, I've had some different experiences with FEDEX. First, they provide free packing materials, but not for Fedex ground.

Here are my ups and downs with Fedex Ground. When you prepay, and print at home, a label, you can't get a receipt that the item was delivered at FEDEX. You can get proof by email that they scanned it at the place you dropped it, and it was picked up by the carrier. If you have a claim, it can be hard to prove that your package was dropped at FEDEX, and, they won't pay on the claim.

Fedex insurance requires a reciept for the item you are claiming, to establish proof of purchase, and price value. I keep all mine, but, finding them is a needle in a haystack.

I shipped a bunch of old shirts, and a very nice book, Fedex ground to my cousins. Since only the book was worth anything, I shipped it in a Nikon D50 box. BIG MISTAKE. Box was torn open, book taken, and some shirts, and, the box was delivered back to me.. I filed an insurance claim, even though I don't think I put insurance on the shipping, and they paid the claim for the book inside a week. Had to fax a bunch of forms to them, along with a scan of the top of the box.

So, my first lesson of shipping is to remove any evidence of value in the boxes you use to ship, or, in the address you use on the package. If you ship from a business, just list the address, with a name, so it looks like it's coming from a person. Do not indicate any company name on the box, etc.

USPS works for most of my stuff. I try to make it look as worthless as possible. They are supposed to be so bad at paying off insurance claims that, unless you insure for 3-4 times the value, it's almost not worth doing.

UPS online stuff seems to be a bit more difficult, but, I may give them another try. I signed up to ship out of the country, but, their computer paper work enraged my customers, since I ended up declaring a fairly high value for the items shipped, what they paid for them, and, this would end up with high tariffs on international shipments. So, even though it appeared that UPS was cheaper to begin with, it turns out the USPS is more lax, and easier to ship international. Also, my customers complained about delivery
service by UPS. Often around here, they won't even try to deliver to your door, but stick a note on it, and, either drop it at the manager's office, ok by me, or, take it back and you have to go to their office to pick it up. They also have done the drop on the porch stuff, and only by grace of God some of the stuff hasn't been stolen.

UPS's computer stuff seems slower then Fedex's, but, I haven't worked with it enough to tell you for sure.

Currently I need to ship a gun, but, I may just run it up there, since I don't need to loose a gun in shipping, and, then try and recover through insurance...

S