VA and NC Carriers: Beware Blued Ridge Parkway

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If you read the full opinion at the link in the original post, you'll quickly learn this defendant's "fatal" mistake. HE OPENED HIS MOUTH when he should have kept quiet. He volunteered information he was not legally obligated to volunteer. He voluntarily told the officers he was armed. I'll say it again and again; if your state of residence does not require you to inform a LEO that you're carrying, keep your mouth shut! I had two VERY negative experiences with LEOs after I volunteered such information even though VA did not require me to do so. I thought I was doing something as a courtesy to the LEOs but on both occasions the LEOs tried their best to discover a law I might be breaking. One even went back to his car and searched his code book. The other LEO disarmed me. I was professional, courteous and in possession of the right attitude as I knew I broke a speeding/traffic law, but my contrite, humble attitude didn't help my situation. I encountered two LEOs who thought only they should be allowed to carry guns. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT, take your ticket, and leave quietly. DO NOT VOLUNTEER INFORMATION!!!
 
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In VA the officer knows you have a permit before he comes to write you your ticket or at least once you give them your lic.

He will run the plates. If it is your car you will come up. In your Lic profile they will see that you have a permit.

99% of the time if you are driving your car they know you carry before they have spoken to you. You are not required by law to tell them but if you don't they will be very stand offish and you can count 100% on them asking you if you are armed.

You assumptions and info are not valid in this example.
 
You are not required by law to tell them but if you don't they will be very stand offish and you can count 100% on them asking you if you are armed.

I'll respectfully disagree. The only times I've had problems were the occasions when I initially volunteered the information. Yes, your drivers license is flagged if you're a CHP holder, however, I'm beginning to believe that should you bring the issue up first, some LEOs may regard your information as a challenge or threat to them instead of a courtesy. I can't really provide a good explanation for this, but it seems to be the only thing that makes sense to me. I've been stopped 4 times in the last 8 years in VA. All 4 times, I had a CHP and was armed. The 2 times I volunteered the info, I had trouble and harassment. The 2 times I kept my mouth, I had no trouble and the LEOs were very professional, respectful and never said a word about my CHP. That's a 50% rate for me personally so I'll just keep my mouth closed.
 
To provide further evidence that opening his mouth was a bad idea, see this line on page 5 of the full opinion....

As such, there was sufficient evidence presented at trial,
including his own admissions as to the weapons, to convict Gettier of both violations.

His admission helped shoot down his appeal.
 
You are not required by law to tell them but if you don't they will be very stand offish and you can count 100% on them asking you if you are armed.

I've found the opposite to be true. Three encounters with local LEO's out here near Winchester, once I handed over my CC permit they all have said, "I don't need this".

They don't seem to care out here. NOVA is quite different I'm sure.
 
"I thought this was common knowledge as the Blue Ridge Parkway is a National Park"

Having spent well over 50 years in and out of the Charlottesville/Waynesboro VA area, it seems a lot of folks think the Skyline Drive in Shenandoah National Park north of Rockfish Gap is the only NP road in the area. They think the Blue Ridge Parkway south of the Gap isn't a NP because it's in the Geo. Washington National Forest.

Parkway map: www.nps.gov/PWR/customcf/apps/maps/showmap.cfm?alphacode=blri&parkname=Blue Ridge Parkway

John
 
At the very least it should be federal law that anyplace where firearms are illegal should be conspicuously marked (like TX's 30.06 law).

I'm sorry, this is like saying that you should know what the speed limit is on every road, but without the road signs.
 
When driving on Highway 2 along the southern edge of Glacier Nat PArk the only sinage other than entering the park, is one that states No Hunting.

I guess I was lucky I never got pulled over, you don't think of being on a major highway as being in the park.

bob
 
Because I fit the description, everytime i've been thru there on my motorcycle I unloaded, gun in one sack, ammo in the other. Thank goodness.
 
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4.12 is the regulation concerning moving violation so it seems the below regulation 2.4(b) is the pertinent one but it does not list the penalty other than revocation of a permit (not CCW). Earlier in the string it was stated that the penalty was a felony but I have been unable to find any evidence of that.
Anyone know better? Just because you violate a rule on Federal property it does not necessarily follow that violating that rule results in a felony conviction.


[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 36, Volume 1]
[Revised as of July 1, 2004]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 36CFR2.4]

[Page 19-20]

TITLE 36--PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY

CHAPTER I--NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

PART 2_RESOURCE PROTECTION, PUBLIC USE AND RECREATION--Table of Contents

Sec. 2.4 Weapons, traps and nets.

(a)(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section and parts 7
(special regulations) and 13 (Alaska regulations), the following are
prohibited:
(i) Possessing a weapon, trap or net
(ii) Carrying a weapon, trap or net
(iii) Using a weapon, trap or net
(2) Weapons, traps or nets may be carried, possessed or used:
(i) At designated times and locations in park areas where:
(A) The taking of wildlife is authorized by law in accordance with
Sec. 2.2 of this chapter;
(B) The taking of fish is authorized by law in accordance with Sec.
2.3 of this part.
(ii) When used for target practice at designated times and at
facilities or locations designed and constructed specifically for this
purpose and designated pursuant to special regulations.
(iii) Within a residential dwelling. For purposes of this
subparagraph only, the term ``residential dwelling'' means a fixed
housing structure which is either the principal residence of its
occupants, or is occupied on a regular and recurring basis by its
occupants as an alternate residence or vacation home.
(3) Traps, nets and unloaded weapons may be possessed within a
temporary

[[Page 20]]

lodging or mechanical mode of conveyance when such implements are
rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased or stored in a
manner that will prevent their ready use.
(b) Carrying or possessing a loaded weapon in a motor vehicle,
vessel or other mode of transportation is prohibited, except that
carrying or possessing a loaded weapon in a vessel is allowed when such
vessel is not being propelled by machinery and is used as a shooting
platform in accordance with Federal and State law.
(c) The use of a weapon, trap or net in a manner that endangers
persons or property is prohibited.
(d) The superintendent may issue a permit to carry or possess a
weapon, trap or net under the following circumstances:
(1) When necessary to support research activities conducted in
accordance with Sec. 2.5.
(2) To carry firearms for persons in charge of pack trains or saddle
horses for emergency use.
(3) For employees, agents or cooperating officials in the
performance of their official duties.
(4) To provide access to otherwise inaccessible lands or waters
contiguous to a park area when other means of access are otherwise
impracticable or impossible.

Violation of the terms and conditions of a permit issued pursuant to
this paragraph is prohibited and may result in the suspension or
revocation of the permit.
(e) Authorized Federal, State and local law enforcement officers may
carry firearms in the performance of their official duties.
(f) The carrying or possessing of a weapon, trap or net in violation
of applicable Federal and State laws is prohibited.
(g) The regulations contained in this section apply, regardless of
land ownership, on all lands and waters within a park area that are
under the legislative jurisdiction of the United States.

[48 FR 30282, June 30, 1983, as amended at 49 FR 18450, Apr. 30, 1984;
52 FR 35240, Sept. 18, 1987]

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 36, Volume 1]
[Revised as of July 1, 2004]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 36CFR4.12]

[Page 36]

TITLE 36--PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY

CHAPTER I--NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

PART 4_VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC SAFETY--Table of Contents

Sec. 4.12 Traffic control devices.

Failure to comply with the directions of a traffic control device is
prohibited unless otherwise directed by the superintendent.
 
CFR

The CFR is not law its Regulations USC=United States Code is law, CFR=Code of Federal Regulations. USC is law that comes from Congress (Elected Officials) CFR comes from someone in Washington saying we should not allow people to do that sort of thing. Its kinda of a lets make the law up as we go along.
 
I would agree with the poster who said to keep your mouth shut and don't offer any voluntary info the cops.
 
I would agree with the poster who said to keep your mouth shut and don't offer any voluntary info the cops.
That's not an option with a NC CCL. NC licensees are obligated by law to inform an officer that they are carrying, along with the fact that the CCL is linked to the drivers license.
 
One has to wonder...

What about the people who make their homes along the Blue Ridge Parkway? The parkway is the main road that they use to come and go.
Are residents bound by the same laws? Are they not allowed the means of self-defense in their own homes? And, if they suffer a home invasion...and they use said firearms for the purpose of defending their lives and those of their families...are they facing a felony conviction for the possession of a loaded/ready weapon?
 
That's not an option with a NC CCL. NC licensees are obligated by law to inform an officer that they are carrying, along with the fact that the CCL is linked to the drivers license.

I disagree, if carrying there would be illegal in spite of the license. It would be self-incrimination which cannot be compelled under the 5th Amendment.
 
One has to wonder...

What about the people who make their homes along the Blue Ridge Parkway? The parkway is the main road that they use to come and go.
Are residents bound by the same laws? Are they not allowed the means of self-defense in their own homes? And, if they suffer a home invasion...and they use said firearms for the purpose of defending their lives and those of their families...are they facing a felony conviction for the possession of a loaded/ready weapon?

Those who live within the national parks own their property. It is their private property and they may carry as they wish while on their private property and they may defend their homes as anyone else may, BUT as soon as they leave their private property and take to the roads and other public areas within the parks, they are bound by the same laws as those individuals just passing through. Many individuals own private property within our nationals parks and national forests and their rights are not diminished while on their property.
 
Remember, ALL of us have until June 30th to make our opinions known to the NPS/Dept of Interior regarding concealed carry in our national parks. Please take advantage of this open comment period and tell them they should adopt the concealed carry laws of the state in which the national park is located (i.e., the Shenandoah National Park should be governed by the same laws as the rest of Virginia). Speak up gun owners!

http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=SubmitComment&o=090000648053d497
 
Remember folks, here's what this sign really means right now...

NPSmeansnoguns_small.gif

And just another FYI. There are a few randomly scattered concessions at some National FOREST locations are actually run by the National Parks Service. In that case you can have firearms at the FOREST, but the minute you walk inside the concession building you are in a Federal building and it's illegal.

Be safe. Keep an eye out for the logo above!

(does anyone else see the irony of having an arrowhead in the logo...and banning weapons?)
 
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You are not required by law to tell them but if you don't they will be very stand offish and you can count 100% on them asking you if you are armed.
I'll respectfully disagree. The only times I've had problems were the occasions when I initially volunteered the information.

First off never volunteer any info or consent to a search. Keep your mouth shut.

Second, I've talked to several officers I know and they all say they would like you to tell them right away if your carrying. They get grumpy when they go run your license after talking to you for several minutes and then find you are carrying
 
I thought this was common knowledge as the Blue Ridge Parkway is a National Park, but I guess not
As someone who has been on the Parkway (to get from one mountain road to another) before, I did not know that the road itself was considered a National Park. I figured it was legally the same as any other U.S. highway in the state of North Carolina, and would have assumed it was OK to have a firearm in the car if I was just driving through and not stopping at any of the turnoffs or walking the trails or whatever. Scary to find out I was wrong. That is probably the same mistake that the victim in the OP made.

There is no signage whatsoever that would warn you that guns are banned from the road itself. It looks like an ordinary 2-lane road, albeit one with a really nice view.
 
Granted I only go on it a couple times a year, but aren't most, if not all, entrances to the parkway marked with NPS signs like these? I seem to recall them at or around the entrances I've been past, but once again, I only see the BRP periodically and don't live in the area.

2448235805_789018d8e7.png
79811754_2308817bfa.jpg
 
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