VA bar/restaurant carry poll

[romma]

Sorry , can't answer that poll... I think both restaraunt and bars should be okay to carry in.

 

[Biker]

I agree with Romma. I doubt ol' Ben and Tom and the rest of the Founders put away their guns when they were drinking Ben's home made brew.

Biker

 

[ZeSpectre]

Here's this scenario: Virginia passes a law that allows CC in a restaurant that serves alcohol. You sit down with your family to eat, have 2 glasses of wine with your dinner.

As you leave a BG decides he wants your car with your kids inside. You could care less about the car, but you're not letting him take your kids. You shoot and kill the BG.

The question: How would the LEO's and/or lawyers take your B.A.C into this issue? Even if you blew a .06 which is below the legal limit, they may still consider you "impared" to use deadly force.

98C5,

This doesn't ring quite right. Are you saying that you don't have any right to defend yourself if you might be impaired?

I don't think your right to self defense goes away because you are or might be "impaired". The only real question might be the soundness of your judgment when trying to decide if this was truly a lethal force scenario.

I'm going to ponder this question a bit more.

 

[98C5]

I guess my point in my post is how would the LEO's react knowing you shot someone in self-defense after having 2 glasses of wine with dinner. Even if your BAC was well under the limit, I feel the lawyers would use that as an excuse for being "impared".

I like a glass or two of wine with my dinner, especially Italian food, but I would still be apprehensive to carry. So, it is almost a double-edged sword. It seems like you can carry, but cannot drink or you can have a drink, but cannot carry.

 

[apocryph]

Here's this scenario: Virginia passes a law that allows CC in a restaurant that serves alcohol. You sit down with your family to eat, have 2 glasses of wine with your dinner.

As you leave a BG decides he wants your car with your kids inside. You could care less about the car, but you're not letting him take your kids. You shoot and kill the BG.

The question: How would the LEO's and/or lawyers take your B.A.C into this issue? Even if you blew a .06 which is below the legal limit, they may still consider you "impared" to use deadly force.

IANAL, but I don't think the self-defense statutes and case law say anything about one's intoxication level. The issue isn't can you defend yourself if you've been drinking. The issue is can you drink while armed.

Virginia law is pretty clear on this point. 18.2-308 J1:

J1. Any person permitted to carry a concealed handgun, who is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs while carrying such handgun in a public place, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. Conviction of any of the following offenses shall be prima facie evidence, subject to rebuttal, that the person is "under the influence" for purposes of this section: manslaughter in violation of § 18.2-36.1, maiming in violation of § 18.2-51.4, driving while intoxicated in violation of § 18.2-266, public intoxication in violation of § 18.2-388, or driving while intoxicated in violation of § 46.2-341.24. Upon such conviction that court shall revoke the person's permit for a concealed handgun and promptly notify the issuing circuit court. A person convicted of a violation of this subsection shall be ineligible to apply for a concealed handgun permit for a period of five years.

My guess is one glass of wine won't elevate my BAC enough to make me legally "under the influence", and that probably goes for you too. However, personally I apply a stricter standard. I never, under any circumstances, consume alcohol while armed. I don't generally drink when I'm out since I have to drive, but even when I'm at home, I remove my carry gun before I pour a whiskey. I'm not saying everyone should be required by force of law to do the same, but for me it's basic safety.

When OC'ing in a restaurant as required by current law, this goes double. There are enough stereotypes about drunken gun toters already, without me sipping a beer whilst OC'ing to add to them. Will I go crazy and shoot up the place after one beer? Of course not, and I'm sure you won't either, but that's not the point.

 

[98C5]

Then what would be considered "under the influence"? Would it be considered over the legal limit of .08 or anything registering on the breath meter?

 

[apocryph]

The DUI statute defines DUI at BAC of 0.08 _or_ "under the influence" of alcohol. I couldn't find a statutory definition of 'under the influence' though I'm sure there is one in case law if not statutes.

 

[JohnBT]

"Confusing replies"

I think that's due to a mixed bag of hypothetical situtations and factual statements about the current law and the proposed law.

I'm trying to stick to what is and what is proposed and leave my opinion about what I'd really like to see out of it.

John

 

[Titan6]

Whoops, I missed the "No OC" on the end of that line. Count me out.

 

[chris in va]

couldn't vote on this because I think your proposed compromise is needlessly complicated

I agree. Reason I put it that way, some states already have this on the books and I suspect VA may follow suit as 'compromise' legislation. Hopefully I'm way off base though.

Virginia law is pretty clear on this point. 18.2-308 J1

Apocryph, thanks for pointing that out. I actually wasn't aware of that.