VA Open Carry in Wash. comPost article

[dev_null]

> Standard gun show rules, no loaded firearms but carry as you normally would

Contradiction in terms. <G>

So, carry concealed but unloaded? What's the point of that? Or do you mean carry concealed and "don't ask, don't tell?"

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[BeLikeTrey]

Help me edit my letter and/or add to it please.

"East Coast gun-toters of the Wild West.
In them thar hillbilly hills and suburban highways, law-abiding Virginians can carry a six-shooter openly in a hip holster or conceal a weapon in a designer purse, but they better not be caught toting a concealed machete."

Do you support the first amendment? If so would you enjoy being called a pornography patron or raving sexual deviant who enjoys pornography? It has been deemed as a first amendment right. Or how about first amendment lunatic? We have a right to these things as enumerated in the Bill of rights. Because you choose not to exercise a given right should you therefore infringe on another’s right to do so? This nation was built on protecting diversity and human rights. What you are saying is a type of bigotry. There is plenty that shocks me, but since these things have been deemed as “protected†under certain rights I keep my mouth shut. I would like you to do what your mother always told you to do. If you can’t say anything nice…


" 'Why else would they have made it illegal, as of July 1, to carry a concealed machete, but barred local jurisdictions from enacting any legislation or ordinances limiting laws concerning concealed weapons or 'open carry' options.
'That's a Virginia law for you," said Suzie Robinson of Richmond, state counsel chairwoman of the "Million Moms March.' "

That’s actually the right to keep AND BEAR arms which Virginia has decided to uphold. What a novel Idea to support the Bill of rights set forth by our predecessors to protect us from governments subjugating us like Nazi Germany, or more recently, the tyranny that was Iraq.

"Mrs. Robinson, who has a 12-year-old boy, was reacting to a scary story in the Other Paper about a terrible summertime trend in the Old Dominion of folks 'exercising their right' to carry guns openly."

Was this a poorly veiled attempt at making us think this woman represents every normal American? What does the fact that she has a twelve year old son have to do with anything? Or are you trying to throw that Tired argument back into the fray “It’s for the children�
Further what about if I mocked YOUR "right" to freedom of speech which enables you to post this non-sensical rhetoric?

"Can you imagine the additional problems and danger this craziness is presenting, especially for county officers but also for residents? Don't law enforcement officers already have enough trouble discerning the good guys from the bad guys in a quick-draw second?"

I answer this the same as the police answered you. Pretty clearly answered By Officer Perez, I might add.

"However, Sgt. Richard Perez, a spokesman for the Fairfax County police, said, 'You're not going to get me to tell you that [the open-carry law] presents a problem for our officers.' "

"Fine. I wonder how long that's going to last if folks have a mind to take the law in their own hands because they are carrying a gun on their hip? Doesn't the county have a growing gang problem?"

Wow, in two sentences you contradicted yourself. “Taking the law into my own hands†I take it you are one of those that prefers to be a victim. As you well know police rarely arrive in time to stop a crime in progress. There is a growing gang problem? Well then I’ll be darned sure to protect myself from a rising “epidemicâ€. Because you would rather be a victim or suffer from something doesn’t mean you can inflict the same views on me. Do you not inoculate yourself from diseases like Measles Mumps or Rubella? What about Tetanus? I suppose that is ridiculous, after all, who nowadays gets Measles or the like? Why would you get a Tetanus shot when, obviously, you live in a fresh well taken care of area payed for by your tax dollars with no risk of cuts? Or do you live in this world at all?

"What really concerns Mrs. Robinson and an army of gun-control activists is the impending sunset of the federal assault-weapons ban. If the ban expires Sept. 13 as expected, there's a very real possibility in Virginia that someone 'can put a Tech 9 in a holster and carry it around.' The Tech 9, she noted, was the weapon of choice for one of the shooters in the Columbine High School massacre in Colorado.

Wake up toots! The Tec 9 never went away. The AB10 is the same firearm and has been currently sold by the droves. Sure the features are different, but only cosmetically. The latest incarnation of the Tec9 (the AB10) has a SHORTER barrel and holds the same amount of ammunition. By the way there isn’t a holster that I know of that would comfortably hold one. The sheer size alone still discourages anyone carrying that in their day to day lives. Try another argument please.

"Mrs. Robinson pointed out that 'there are plenty of studies that show that people who carry weapons for self-defense are far less likely to use it for self-defense than to be injured.' Like the 85 percent of Americans polled, she is for 'reasonable gun control,' but "unfettered access to a weapon is never a good thing.' "

And to prove to us your “Journalistic Integrity†Those studies are…

"But they are not planning to lobby against the open-carry or concealed-weapons laws that allow Virginians to act like cowboys in the Wild West."

Listen, if this is a problem for you, there are nice temperate climates like Australia for you to live in. You can always move east if you don’t like the wild, wild, west. I’m sure they’d love to hear more of your drivel.

 

[Frohickey]

Virginia Sen. Kenneth W. Stolle (R-Virginia Beach) said 21 other states have similar open-carry laws.

"In a suburban or urban area, it sometimes causes a level of discomfort but, in my opinion, that level of discomfort doesn't outweigh the constitutional right to bear firearms," Stolle said.

Kenneth Stolle for President in 2008. Heck, Kenneth Stolle for President in 2004!!!!!

Some, such as Cindy Jones, worry that openly toting guns could make them too accessible to the wrong fingers. "The image that comes to mind is a child could grab it," said Jones, 50, a psychologist. "It's frightening to think that that's the mind-set. It makes me think of a gunslinger with a holster."

A child could grab it. I guess a child could grab your purse too, right? Sheesh. Ms. Cindy Jones is reaching for a rationale to validate her irrational fear. You would think a psychologist would know that, of all people.

Smith said she might feel different in some contexts -- such as visiting a high-crime locale -- or if the person next to her had serious firepower.

Still, she added, making a scene by lugging some steel is a little too much for her taste. "It's absurd that people think they need to make a political point by carrying it into a coffee shop. They could leave it in the car," Smith said.

What good is a firearm in the car? Does a car have an alert living breathing security guard looking after it every time, or does it sit out in the parking lot?

Too bad that we don't have the same governmental regulations and restrictions on 1st amendment rights as we currently do (unjustly) on 2nd amendment rights. If that were the case, stupid emotional illogical people would not be allowed to talk and give interviews.

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

If you just happen to be registered at WashPost.com, there is a discussion thread on this article

I'd weigh in but those 1st Amendment protectors over at the comPost's message boards have banned me. Apparently I used the phrases "left wing bias" and "hard-left political agenda" in describing the Post's news reportage a few times too many.

Fairfax's finances are on very thin ice if they intend to continue this unlawfull harassment of gun owners.

 

[JPL]

"What good is a firearm in the car?"

Ask Dr. Susan Gratia-Hupp that question.

When I read about her, that's when my thinking on CCW started to change from "are you out of your mind" to "maybe this isn't such a bad thing after all."

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

Amazingly enough, the comPost seems to have done a far better (more objective) jobof reporting on this issue than the purportedly conservative Washington Times.

Strange when you consider that Moon senior owns the Washington Times while Moon junior owns Kahr firearms. Maybe the paper is trying to slam open carry in favor of their overpriced ($800+) concealed carry tupperware.

 

[Cortland]

Kenneth Stolle for President in 2008. Heck, Kenneth Stolle for President in 2004!!!!!

Not so fast, friends. Stolle is my state Senator here in Virginia Beach -- he was also the force behind the airport firearms ban that took effect in VA on July 1. Depending on who you talk to he was either a) consummating a terrific bargain in which VA gun owners got full preemption, no more OGAM, etc. in exchange for the airport ban or, 2) firmly in the pocket of the MWAA (and the resteraunt association, and the...). There was also some shady NRA involvement in SB660 (the airport ban).

He's just trying to get back into our good graces.

 

[dev_null]

Kenneth Stolle for President in 2008. Heck, Kenneth Stolle for President in 2004!!!!!

Hell, if we're writing people in, how about John Ross, Matthew Bracken, or Aaron Zellman!

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[FishOrMan]

Glad to see more then one person standing up for their rights. A right not used is soon to be a right refused.

Maybe it takes six to make a difference. That is ok. I will just keep doing what I have to do out here in the "wild west" of Washington State.

Glad to see it may someday bear fruit. Keep it up!

 

[RWK]

I have written about open carry in Virginia – especially Northern Virginia – on S’ville, THR and TFL before.

While generally legal in Virginia for decades, many NorVa LEOs have believed open carry constitutes a disturbance of the peace, a public nuance, or even brandishing. This does not suggest that cases were prosecuted; however, there was a significant potential “hassle factorâ€. It was VERY LEO dependant, since some individual’s experiences indicated no problems whatsoever.

The recent “Washington Post†news coverage is likely (IMHO) to do three things:
a) Raise LEO awareness that Virginia open-carry is fully legal – a good thing.
b) Induce the Legislature to enact a “Texas like “ amendment to the current CCW laws, allowing conceal carry in some establishments that serve alcoholic beverages (Virginia does NOT now have a 50 percent statute like Texas – if ANY alcohol is served, CCW is illegal) – that is also a good thing.
c) Possibly energize the “soccer mommy†crowd to attempt to restrict Second Amendment rights – “We can’t have firearms in public, they are ALL awful, they will lead to ‘wild west’ gunfights in our affluent, suburban communities “ – a potentially bad thing, if (unlikely) the rest of Virginia were to accede.

 

[Smurfslayer]

RWK,

Have you ever contacted a NoVA LE agency to ask about that 'Breach of the Peace' assertion ? If you had, you would know the answer is not just no, but hell no. I've spoken to 2 agencys and the VSP on the issue and it is very tough to find an officer who does not know this. The Reston District commander was abundantly clear on this to me.

You also go on to say:

b) Induce the Legislature to enact a “Texas like “ amendment to the current CCW laws, allowing conceal carry in some establishments that serve alcoholic beverages (Virginia does NOT now have a 50 percent statute like Texas – if ANY alcohol is served, CCW is illegal) – that is also a good thing.

[SS] Janet Howell already did this last session, and it is blatantly unconstitutional. See : http://legis.state.va.us/Laws/Constitution.htm
go to the index; Article 1, Section 13.
Permits regulate the manner in which arms may be borne, and that has held to be a legitimate exercise of the state power, but said regulation may not be held or used to so curtail the right as to render it moot.


c) Possibly energize the “soccer mommy†crowd to attempt to restrict Second Amendment rights – “We can’t have firearms in public, they are ALL awful, they will lead to ‘wild west’ gunfights in our affluent, suburban communities “ – a potentially bad thing, if (unlikely) the rest of Virginia were to accede.

[SS] minor nit pick; the 4th US circuit does not consider the 2nd Amendment to protect an individual right. Article 1, Section 13 of the Virginia Constitution does.

Also, please do not insult our neighbors to the west with that incorrect term to describe shootouts. The Friday Night Group, in consultation with VCDL has determined that this is demeaning to our western neighbors, inaccurate, and insensitive and must be replaced with a more correct and understandable description.

That is why, from now on, we will refer to them correctly as "Wild DC Shootouts". Are people in the west mowed down by gang thugs and drug dealers with impunity? Are westerners living under the toughest gun prohibitions and suffering the highest per capita violent crime? Are our western neighbors engaging in shootouts to steal a nicer Tommy Hilfiger jacket or the latest Air Jordans? Of course not, so let's stop insulting them and place the blame squarely where it lay - in DC. From now on, don't let this 'wild west' misnomer go unchallenged - it's "Wild DC Shootouts" where only the police have guns...

 

[Shovelhead]

it's "Wild DC Shootouts" where only the police have guns...

:banghead: ....riiiiight

 

[RWK]

Dave . . . You miss the point, they were arrested

Dave,

The two fellows who had their firearms seized by the Fairfax County police were, in fact, arrested for some chicken charge (disturbing the peace, creating a public nuance, or some other type of equally ludicrous offense). They were both given a misdemeanor summons – AND THAT IS AN ARREST. The fact that the charge was dropped and their sidearms were returned the following day is irrelevant; the simple fact is they were illegally arrested.

Therefore, please do not tell me that people have not been arrested – they just were!

And, yes, I called LtCol Peters (of the FCPD) re this subject yesterday, although he has not seen fit to return my call.

 

[Smurfslayer]

Actually, yes, they were arrested, but not non any kind of breach of the peace, disturbing the peace or what have you. They were mistakenly arrested on a violationof 18.2-287.4 which prohibits loaded firearms and defines firearms specifically within the statute. The officers misunderstood this (probably because their code book, I am given to understand, misquotes the law). You can find 18.2-287.4 on
http://leg1.state.va.us ...

I know it looks bad, but this statute is very poorly worded, and is difficult to understand for lawyers in a law office or court room, as well as a cop on the street. I'm in no way excusing the arrest of the two gentlemen at Starbucks, but, the FPD has taken measures to ensure that it does not happen again. Since the Anti called the cops on me for OC at Champps, and I did not get arrested, along with my 12 associates, I would suggest that FPD has addressed the issue.

HTH

 

[Cortland]

The law says:

§ 18.2-287.4 Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited

It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded firearm on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public

(i) in any city with a population of 160,000 or more or

(ii) in any county having an urban county executive form of government or any county or city surrounded thereby or adjacent thereto or in any county having a county manager form of government. The provisions of this section shall not apply to ... any person having a valid permit to carry such firearm

Since the people in question did not have such a permit (or at least refused to show it to the officers), they were arrested. The officers had a booklet of Virginia firearms laws which included some form of the above law, but their booklet did not contain the following portion of the same law:

For purposes of this section, "firearm" means any; (i) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol which expels a projectile by action of an explosion and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than twenty rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or; (ii) shotgun with a magazine which will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered.

What's even worse is that the officers in question in one of these incidents (though not this Fairfax one) called the magistrate to confirm that the activity was illegal -- and the magistrate incorrectly told them the activity was indeed illegal, and the officers proceded based on this advice.

You can read about the Fairfax incident here.