Verdigris On New 7.62x54R PPU Ammo

[Slamfire]

Be not ashamed of the sweat from your brow.
Not everyone has a shop to be so eternally grateful for as mine.

My case was boring. Yours has color!

Yours looks to have internal pitting. Is that correct?

 

[troy fairweather]

Sorry I can't get a clear photo, but the powder is definitely going bad in these ppu. The inside of the case is black with green/blue colors starting. I peeled the brass open because I don't have a grinder here. The brass seems very brittle tho these ppu are annealed. The black goes a few thou in the brass and looks like small pitting is starting. Powder smells off to, kinda like vinegar.

The powder looks very similar to imr 3031. No discolor but does smell.

 

[Catpop]

Yeah, my powder too had not changed color, but was clumped. Clumped so bad I had to break it up to get it out of case.
I didn’t note any real pitting but it must have been there to get to outside of case like that.
Sorry I forgot to smell!

 

[Demi-human]

Yours looks to have internal pitting. Is that correct?

No, just sooty, low pressure carbon.

It was a newer case just a range pick up from one of the other boys at the cabin. American Eagle if I’m not mistaken. Whatever was cheapest at Walmart last year, I’d imagine.

I’ve just never cut one in half before and thought I’d try it. Pressing it in a groove cut into a piece of wood let me grind right through it on the sander, even burnt the wood.
The same trick had the bullet hand filed in half in two minutes.

I filed over the trash so any lead would fall in there, but sanded the brass right down to the lead contaminated primer and case walls.

Sorry I forgot to smell!

Just a hand waft to sense the odor, don’t inhale deeply. Nitric acid will do what it did to the case to your lungs, too.

 

[Catpop]

So it looks like my simple gripe about one box of cartridges has grown into a genuine concern over any stored ammo!
-I was especially distressed to see that box of Remington 30-06 from 1989 exhibiting the same signs!!!!!! Wolf ok , but Remington! That is truly scary!
-Of course I’ll pull the rest of the bullets just to see what condition the rest of the cases are in!
I don’t reload 7.62x54R yet, but do have a surplus 91.
-A few in this box were fired soon after purchase to check rifling for grouping in my old rifle! No problems then! (But no group either, Drats!)
-4 in box are still pristine, with balance in picture as you see. I’ll conclude those 4 pristine are unsafe also!
-Thanks to all who gave their valuable input to this very unsafe situation!

 

[Catpop]

The powder looks very similar to imr 3031. No discolor but does smell.

Great minds think alike! I too thought the same thing! I used to use a lot of IMR 3031 in my earlier years!

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I posted in an earlier page of "what did you do in the reloading room today" that I had some boxes of new/ old ammo to pull down because of verdigris on the brass.
I already ordered the 30 cal insert for my Forster bullet puller and after seeing and reading this thread and others, I will be tearing apart some boxes of 30-30 (PMC Starfire), and maybe my 30-06 PMC Starfire now to, even though the 30-06 don't show any signs of a problem.
the 30-30 is turning green and by my standards, isn't that old. Maybe 15 years or more.
Somethings wrong with them.
Thanks for reminder, I don't care if I have time or not. It's going to get done.

 

[Obturation]

---- deleted----
I asked the same question twice, sorry.

 

[Catpop]

I’m used to seeing Verdigris forming on leather pistol belts between the leather and fasteners and also bullets in belt loops. I always assumed it was from the tannic acid in the leather.

 

[Catpop]

---- deleted----
I asked the same question twice, sorry.

The worst thing is if you don’t catch it early, the most valuable part, the case, will be lost also!
I may get lucky and save half of my cases that don’t show the acid damage

 

[earlthegoat2]

This can be caused by many varying temperature extremes over time.

However, this seems to be a pretty widespread problem. Ever since I got a ruptured case from a 44 mag PPU and then read about how the brass was inferior, I avoid them.

Funny thing is there was a recent thread about brass and PPU component brass was pretty well praised. Dunno.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Interesting that the OP mentions PPU cartridges, but the pic shows Wolf.

Very different companies.

PPU is Serbian, Wolf is Russian.
It may seem a distinction without a difference on this side of the world, but I believe the Serbs would disagree most vociferously.

And have done so.

 

[Catpop]

Let me look at headstamp and post pic this am!!!!!!
Thanks for bringing this to my attention Hooda Thunkit!!!!!
I hope you’re correct as I’ve got a lot of PPU in the locker!!!!!

Update: Its a wolf box but filled with PPU brass case ammo?????!! They must be buying brass cases from PPU or loaded ammo from PPU. Hooda——you had me thinking I had gone off the deep end!!!!!!

 

[Catpop]

Another update:
Pulled the remaining bullets today
-Found all bullet bases green
-Found all powder clumped together inside cases, smelled like vinegar as mentioned earlier
-Found varying primer reports ranging from loud crack to poof, with 2 not even going off.

and there you have it for my 7.62x54R PPU/Wolf hybrid Ammo!

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Update: Its a wolf box but filled with PPU brass case ammo?????!! They must be buying brass cases from PPU or loaded ammo from PPU. Hooda——you had me thinking I had gone off the deep end!!!!!!

Are you sure those aren't reloads ? Seems strange to have PPU ammo in a Wolf box...

 

[troy fairweather]

Looks like the primers ppu uses.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I've seen PPU with silver (nickled), or non-plated (gold-ish), both from the factory.

I'm looking at the original pics, and don't see any die marks on the brass, but something just seems off here.

 

[Slamfire]

Are you sure those aren't reloads ? Seems strange to have PPU ammo in a Wolf box...

Wolf Match 22lr is made by SK. Wolf Target Match is SK Std Plus, and Wolf Extra Match is SK Rifle Match. I would not doubt the ammunition was boxed at SK instead of some "Wolf" repacking facility.

If the cost to Wolf of buying PPU headstamped cases is less than the cost of "Wolf" headstamped cases, but the sell price is same, they are going to go for the increased profit.

There are actually very few manufacturer's of anything. It is extremely difficult to find supplier information, but when I do, it is surprising how many brands come out of one factory. Follow up on food recalls, find how many brands of recalled cat food, lettuce, meat, come out of one food factory.

 

[troy fairweather]

Op I can't see from your photos, what color is the primer compound. Mine are a pinkis red color.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Wolf Match 22lr is made by SK. Wolf Target Match is SK Std Plus, and Wolf Extra Match is SK Rifle Match. I would not doubt the ammunition was boxed at SK instead of some "Wolf" repacking facility.

If the cost to Wolf of buying PPU headstamped cases is less than the cost of "Wolf" headstamped cases, but the sell price is same, they are going to go for the increased profit.

There are actually very few manufacturer's of anything. It is extremely difficult to find supplier information, but when I do, it is surprising how many brands come out of one factory. Follow up on food recalls, find how many brands of recalled cat food, lettuce, meat, come out of one food factory.

Sure, I deny none of what you say.

My point, however, is that if it is loaded by Wolf in brass purchased from PPU, is it in fact PPU ammo?

Or Wolf ammo?

 

[Slamfire]

It is PPU ammunition sold by Wolf. Assuming, that PPU is the manufacturer, they may have subcontracted the majority of the work to someone else.

This may be more of a legal issue of who owns the hot potato, which I am not qualified to answer. But to me, if Wolf sells it, it's their ammunition since I would be suing them if the stuff blew up my firearm. Wolf is responsible for the design, specifications, over sight, sub contractor management, and guaranteeing the quality of the products sold under their name. Even if all they did was create a specification and a purchase order.

 

[Catpop]

Op I can't see from your photos, what color is the primer compound. Mine are a pinkis red color.

I was trying to show the green insides of the primers in my picture, but evidently my phone won’t focus close enough. Sorry. I don’t have a clue what color they were when new?

 

[Swampman]

Wolf doesn't manufacture ANY ammo, they are solely a marketing concern. There are no "Wolf" ammunition factories in Russia or anywhere else.

All "Wolf Gold" brass cased ammo used to be manufactured by Prvi Partizan, but I think they're now having it made in Taiwan.

If that were my ammo, I'd contact PPU.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Wolf doesn't manufacture ANY ammo, they are solely a marketing concern. There are no "Wolf" ammunition factories in Russia or anywhere else.

All "Wolf Gold" brass cased ammo used to be manufactured by Prvi Partizan, but I think they're now having it made in Taiwan.

If that were my ammo, I'd contact PPU.

I learn something every day. If I pay attention.

 

[Catpop]

Update:
I citric acid cleaned the deprimed cases last night. Here’s a pic of worst cases.
As previously stated- Do Not Shoot Acid Leached Cases (deteriorated powder damaged cases)!
See actual hole in one case and others almost holed!