Vermont Non-resident firearm purchase?

[Battenkill]

I am a resident of Illinois and have a second home in Vermont. I would like to purchase a firearm in Vermont that would remain in the Vermont home. The following is copied from the Vermont AG website--I am confused. May I purchase a firearm in Vermont as a non-resident? Or, do I have to purchase the firearm in my state of residence (IL) and have it shipped to a dealer in VT?

Section 4015. Purchase of firearms by nonresidents

Residents of a state other than the state of Vermont may purchase rifles and shotguns in the state of Vermont, provided that such residents conform to the applicable provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968, and regulations thereunder, as administered by the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, and provided further that such residents conform to the provisions of law applicable to such purchase in the state of Vermont and in the state in which such persons reside.

 

[LNK]

I am pretty sure, if you have proof of a residence in a state, then you are a resident while you are there. Get a state ID in vermont next time you are there....

LNK

 

[Frank Ettin]

First, here is a summary, from one of my posts in another thread, of federal law on interstate transfer of firearms:

...The whole federal law story on interstate transfers of firearms (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses and the subject of dual residency):

• Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).
  
  
• In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.
  
  
• In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.C] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.
  
  
• There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.
  
  
• The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).
  
  
• Here's what the statutes say:

  18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts
  
  (a) It shall be unlawful—
  ...
  
  (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph
  
  

  (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,
  
  (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;​

  
  ...
  
  (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
  
  

  (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
  
  (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

  
  ....
  
  (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
  ...
  
  (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph
  
  

  (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and
  
  (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

  
  ...

...

But

Federal law also defines "State of residence" for the purposes of that law as follows (27 CFR 478.11):

...State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1.

A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2.

A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Example 3.

A, an alien, travels on vacation or on a business trip to State X. Regardless of the length of time A spends in State X, A does not have a State of residence in State X. This is because A does not have a home in State X at which he has resided for at least 90 days....

So under federal law for the purposes of buying a gun, the OP probably is a resident of Vermont when he is staying at his home in Vermont. To buy a gun at a dealer in Vermont he would have to establish that he is a resident of Vermont with acceptable government issued identification.

 

[NavyLCDR]

To buy a gun at a dealer in Vermont he would have to establish that he is a resident of Vermont with acceptable government issued identification.

Actually it would be with an acceptable government issued DOCUMENT. The OP can use their driver's license from another state to establish identity, and use a government issued document, such as hunting license, vehicle registration, utility bill for a utility provided by a municipal government, etc. to prove residency in Vermont. This option is most clearly written in the instructions for the Form 4473, I can't remember the exact question, but I think it is 21B.

Military members are similar - we can use our Military ID Card, which lists no state of residence, to prove our identity and use our military orders to a state as the government issued document to prove state of residency.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...This option is most clearly written in the instructions for the Form 4473, I can't remember the exact question, but I think it is 21B...

Actually, it's question 20b, which provides:

...The required valid government-issued photo identification document bearing the name, photograph, and date of birth of the transferee may be supplemented by another valid government-issued document showing the transferee's residence address....For example, if a U. S. citizen has two States of residence and is trying to buy a handgun in State X, he may provide a driver's license (showing his name, date of birth and photograph) issued by State Y and another government-issued document (such as a tax document) from State X showing his residence address.

 

[Battenkill]

Frank and NavyLCDR,
I am very appreciative of the thoroughness of your replies--thanks. Based on your comments and supporting references, it seems as if I can purchase a firearm in Vermont by presenting an Illinois drivers license (photo id) confirming Illinois residence and a property tax bill for my home in Vermont (my full name and identification of property owned). Is this a correct conclusion?

I fit into Example 2 ( I probably spend 2 months per year in VT):


A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Welcome to THR.

As a resident of VT, let me attempt to address your question:

1: The AG's website, in the first paragraph you quote, says that the federal guidelines for interstate purchases of firearms apply- a non-resident can purchase long guns through an FFL, provided proper identification and successful completion of the 4473 and NICS check. Handguns must be transferred to an FFL in your state of residence (i.e. Illinois).

2: Paragraph 2 quoted states that you additionally have to be legally qualified to purchase a firearm in VT (there are no special qualifications to purchase a firearm in VT beyond federal law) AND you need to be legally able to purchase a firearm in your home state. In other words, as a resident of Illinois, you will need a valid FOID card to purchase firearms in Vermont, as a non-resident.

Therefore, it would behoove you, as the above posters have recommended, to become a resident of Vermont, to such degree as meets federal law (Though I hope and am assuming that you are fully capable of possessing firearms in IL, and have a FOID card). That would give you the same rights and responsibilities as the natives.

Also, keep in mind that all persons who can legitimately possess firearms by federal law can carry them openly or concealed in the state of Vermont, regardless of residency, and with no permit offered nor required. In other words, why not purchase your firearm in IL and move it to Vermont?

 

[LemmyCaution]

Based on your comments and supporting references, it seems as if I can purchase a firearm in Vermont by presenting an Illinois drivers license (photo id) confirming Illinois residence and a property tax bill for my home in Vermont (my full name and identification of property owned). Is this a correct conclusion?

Close.

1: Your IL drivers license confirms your identity.
2: Your VT property tax bill confirms residency*.

*Important note: Your tax bill must list your property as a domicile or residence. Undeveloped land will not count for this purpose (for those of you with motor homes who park on your own land). I had a bit of trouble with this for a few years, as I was living on undeveloped land, and was thus not able to prove residency anywhere.

 

[deadin]

2: Your VT property tax bill confirms residency*.

I'm not too sure this is completely true. It proves you own property with a house in Vermont but it doesn't prove that you are a resident there. (Maybe it's rental property.) Vehicle registration, Utility bill, etc, with the Vermont address shows that you are actually resident there.

 

[LemmyCaution]

I'm not too sure this is completely true. It proves you own property with a house in Vermont but it doesn't prove that you are a resident there. (Maybe it's rental property.) Vehicle registration, Utility bill, etc, with the Vermont address shows that you are actually resident there.

For the purposes of federal law (which is the only relevant arbiter, in this case), it confirms residency. The vehicle registration would, as well. The utility bill does not. Please go back over the excellent posts above by Frank Ettin and NavyLCDR for a refresher.

 

[herrwalther]

Having something to prove you meet the state's residency requirements is all that is necessary. I believe that if you spend at least 30 days out the year living in VT, you count as a resident. This is how college students can purchase firearms while attending college and university, as they are residents while they are there. VT is very popular for celebrities, snow birds, and foliage chasers.

 

[deadin]

A number of years ago I owned a rental house in Florida. I paid the taxes on it but had never even set foot in the state. You are saying I could consider myself a resident of Florida?

 

[Sam1911]

A number of years ago I owned a rental house in Florida. I paid the taxes on it but had never even set foot in the state. You are saying I could consider myself a resident of Florida?

Only in those portions of the year when you were PRESENT IN THE STATE for the purposes of making your home there.

So, in your case, obviously not.

 

[deadin]

That's what I thought.
So, how do you prove you intend to make your home there? Are they supposed to just take your word?

(Nothing is ever as simple as some think.)

 

[Sam1911]

To some degree you have to produce enough credible paperwork to convince someone to sell to you.

If you've got enough credentials to convince a gun shop owner to sell to you, you can lie through your teeth, if you want to, about whether you actually are making your home in the state at that moment. Seems like a heck of a lot of work to little gain, but you could.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Having something to prove you meet the state's residency requirements is all that is necessary. I believe that if you spend at least 30 days out the year living in VT, you count as a resident.

Incorrect. There are no additional laws in Vermont for proving residency for the purposes of firearms transactions. So the statement of "proving you meet the state's residency requirements" is false as well as the "at least 30 days" part - for firearms transactions. The only residency requirement to meet in Vermont is the Federal requirement - for firearms transactions.

I could move into a rental house in Vermont tomorrow, pay a water, sewer, or garbage deposit to the city or county government to start service at the residence, take that document issued by the municipal government to an FFL and purchase a firearm as a Vermont resident, all legal, all within the same day.

 

[NavyLCDR]

2: Your VT property tax bill confirms residency*.

I'm not too sure this is completely true. It proves you own property with a house in Vermont but it doesn't prove that you are a resident there.

A number of years ago I owned a rental house in Florida. I paid the taxes on it but had never even set foot in the state. You are saying I could consider myself a resident of Florida?

Documents are required to indicate that a claim of identity and residency made by the purchaser are true. There can, in reality, be no government issued document that truly proves state of residence because there are not checkpoints at state lines where all of my documents from one state are seized before crossing into another state. The utilimate declaration of state of residency falls upon what state the purchaser declares on the form 4473, and signs that it is a true statement under penalty of law.

The ATF says in ATF rule 2001-5 that a tax bill is sufficient documentation on page 136 of the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide:

The licensee must record on the
Form 4473 the type of identification
document(s) presented by the transferee,
including any document number.
Examples of documents that
may be accepted to supplement information
on a driver's license or
other identification document include
a vehicle registration, a recreation
identification card, a fishing or hunting
license, a voter identification card, or
a tax bill. However, the document in
question must be valid and must have
been issued by a government agency.

 

[LemmyCaution]

@NavyLCDR-

I understand what you are saying above, but form 4473 also requires documentation of a physical street address.

The 4473 is a sworn affidavit, as you state above, however, one must provide verifiable documentation of the address to which one swears one resides as part of the process, so in that sense, the tax bill does represent proof of residency.

 

[deadin]

I think the "catch" on my example was that although the Florida tax document showed the Florida property, it was addressed to me at my Washington residence. (That ought to have rung a few warning bells...)

 

[NavyLCDR]

I think the "catch" on my example was that although the Florida tax document showed the Florida property, it was addressed to me at my Washington residence. (That ought to have rung a few warning bells...)

My Wyoming driver's license has my Washington state address on it. ATF recently came out with a newsletter or open letter to FFLs that said a driver's license from state A was valid as the proof of residency requirement for state B, if state B was the address displayed on the license and the driver's license from state A was still valid.

 

[herrwalther]

Incorrect. There are no additional laws in Vermont for proving residency for the purposes of firearms transactions. So the statement of "proving you meet the state's residency requirements" is false as well as the "at least 30 days" part - for firearms transactions. The only residency requirement to meet in Vermont is the Federal requirement - for firearms transactions.

I could move into a rental house in Vermont tomorrow, pay a water, sewer, or garbage deposit to the city or county government to start service at the residence, take that document issued by the municipal government to an FFL and purchase a firearm as a Vermont resident, all legal, all within the same day.

I did not mean to imply that there was a state residency requirement for firearms. But yes you are correct that the residency is a federal mandate and not state. VT has very few firearm laws, including no permit required to open or conceal carry. I attended university in VT and was told I needed a letter from the school saying I went there OR some form of utility bill with my school address to prove I was a VT resident in order to purchase a firearm. I chose the utility bill (wireless bill) purely out of convenience.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I attended university in VT and was told I needed a letter from the school saying I went there OR some form of utility bill with my school address to prove I was a VT resident in order to purchase a firearm. I chose the utility bill (wireless bill) purely out of convenience.

Which is interesting because the Federal requirement is that the document providing proof of residency must be issued by the government. I doubt if your wireless bill was issued by the government. A mistake on the FFL's part not understanding the requirements of law.

 

[deadin]

My Wyoming driver's license has my Washington state address on it.

Does that have anything to do with you being on active duty?

 

[LNK]

A number of years ago I owned a rental house in Florida. I paid the taxes on it but had never even set foot in the state. You are saying I could consider myself a resident of Florida?

How would you fill out 4473 if you are not in Florida?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Does that have anything to do with you being on active duty?

Yes. In Washington, here on orders, I can keep my Wyoming driver's license. When it expired, I renewed it by mail and they not only sent it to my Washington address, but also had my Washington address right on it.