Very strange .44 magnum load result

[Iron Sight]

If you are going to fire them in a revolver load the cylinder and fire the gun then at that point remove the last bullet from the cylinder in succession to be fired and check the overall length. Continue firing and checking until the last to be fired is measured.

As to how much "Crimp Jump" is too much? You are on your own. Mainly do not want the gun to lock up with an over extended/jumped projectile.

 

[bluetopper]

It's the CBC brass.........I have the same problem so therefore I load and keep my 44 Mag CBC brass seperate and I have to crimp them more than other brands of brass. If I do this I have no problems.

 

[beatledog7]

Strange .44 magnum load, Range Report

Range report:

Shot 12 rounds (The shooter next to me was curious so I invited him to fire it. He only shot two, and I got his .40 brass).

All 12 into the 9 ring at 7 yards through my 5.5" Redhawk. My new buddy put his first ever .44 magnum round high into the 7 ring and the second low just touching the 9 ring.

So, they all shot fine. I haven't examined my barrel yet for leading.

Next time I load this CBC brass I'll pay closer attention to case dimensions as I size, and I'll load jacketed bullets.

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[k4swb]

Expander

I have been loading for a long time and just in the last few years I started hearing about "expander dies" for handguns.
I don't understand what these are. I have always used something that puts a "slight" bell on the case mouth and then I force the bullet into the case with the seater die. The bullet does ALL the expanding that is done.

I have never ever had a problem with this procedure.
Maybe it is just a terminology mix-up but I have never seen any reason to actually expand the case in handgun ammo. Just a small funnel/bell/flair just on the mouth of the case and no further down.

 

[GP100man]

Well , ya shot em & still have all ya fingers !!

Yeah I know ,it`s easy to leave the real issues at hand behind especially when there`s multi questions asked ,I kinda get stuck in a rut !

If ya really wanted to see the problem shine, shoot em thru a chronograph ,I bet the ES would be in tripple digits !!

 

[Walkalong]

I have been loading for a long time and just in the last few years I started hearing about "expander dies" for handguns.
I don't understand what these are. I have always used something that puts a "slight" bell on the case mouth

That is the expander. It expands the brass, and then flares a little at the top. It is covered in every single reloading book, as well as die set instructions. I have been hearing about expanders as far back as I can remember.

 

[rcmodel]

I started hearing about "expander dies" for handguns.

If you have a die that bells the case, you also have an expander.

The part below the bell portion is the expander.
All straight wall caliber dies have them.

https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/Ma...oductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=6200

http://www.amazon.com/RCBS-Expander-Plug-Cal-0-308/dp/B000N8N3Y4

All Rifle dies all have then too, they are part of the depriming punch.

Lyman also makes the "M" die for lead bullets, and have since dirt was invented.
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/dies/rifle-die-details.php?brand=3&cartridge=26&die=52

rc

 

[beatledog7]

I never had to use the expander/flaring/belling die to insert and seat these bullets. The inner diameter of the CBC brass simply was not small enough to, and the brass itself not elastic enough to, properly accommodate and then grip the soft lead of these bullets. The bullets did all the "giving" as they were inserted--there was zero case bulge as one would normally expect--and the lube on the bullets was slippery enough to allow them to be loose.

I don't have a chronograph, so I have no idea what velocity was achieved short of what was predicted by the Lyman 49th--about 1230 FPS. Every load felt the same, if one can feel that sort of thing. As for the ES, who knows? Who cares? The rounds performed as I needed them to perform (at a moderate tempo put 12/12 within 3.75" at 7 yds), and I have no doubt the rest of the batch will also. I've shot tighter groups, but I don't practice as often as I should with this gun.

I'll use this brass again, and these bullets--just not together.

BTW, my Redhawk 5.5" suffered no leading from shooting 14 of these.

 

[k4swb]

OK

Walkalong wrote:

That is the expander. It expands the brass, and then flares a little at the top. It is covered in every single reloading book, as well as die set instructions. I have been hearing about expanders as far back as I can remember.

I can see no expansion of the case walls except for just the flair at the case mouth. Inside measurements show the exact same dimension before and after except for maybe the first .030" or so right at the case mouth. Nothing on my dies touch anything except right at the very lip of the case.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I see no need to expand anything other than the bell just at the case mouth so the bullet will start a little easier.

My books are old and all I can see about expanding the case back out is for rifle cases. The handgun sections talk about a flair or bell just at the case mouth.

Kinda makes me glad I learned how to reload like I do before I got on the internet.
Some of the thgings I read where people have so much trouble figuring out I never heard of.

 

[Sport45]

If you want to get the flare without expanding the bullet seating area the Lee Universal Case Expanding die should work fine.

 

[Walkalong]

Kinda makes me glad I learned how to reload like I do before I got on the internet.

I'll be happy not to give you any more feedback, but your claim to have only heard of expanders lately is almost unbelievable considering you have read reloading books. Most sizers, but not all, size enough that the expander does a little work.

 

[243winxb]

Expanding/belling Pistol Brass.

k4swb, here is what they look like. RCBS 38 expander/decap/bell & Dillion 45 powder funnel/expander.

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG] When loading a soft lead bullet, the expander becomes very important, as the brass can size the bullet smaller in diameter. Click photos for larger view so you can SEE them better.

 

[Eb1]

I would be worried about the recoil making the bullet come out of the case. I have often thought about the LFCD for my .44 Magnum, but I find that the old time roll crimp works just fine in this caliber.

I have used the LFCD in 30-30, but I have had issues with it by not setting it up correctly. I have finally realized that I was crimping to much with the LFCD in the 30-30. I think the LFCD is fine in some applications, but I would not use it for a straight walled magnum loading. I personally would stick to the roll crimp from the seating die.

I my experience I go by this method. Lead bullets in magnum pistol rounds, use the seating die to roll crimp.
Using jacketed bullets in bottle neck cases, use the LFCD.
For 9mm I use the taper crimp die that came with my RCBS set, and I do not crimp my .223, .303, or .25-06 rounds, but that is neither here nor there in this conversation.

I suggest if you want to shoot lead go with Missouri Cast Bullet Co. for your .44 Magnum. Their 240 LSWC is just plain awesome, and I have very little leading to none using Trail Boss for plinkers, or if I use IMR 4227 for 1300+ fps loads out of a Ruger Super Blackhawk.

The only bullets I have ever had spin in the case is a .22 LR.

 

[k4swb]

Learning Stuff

Walkalong Wrote:

I'll be happy not to give you any more feedback, but your claim to have only heard of expanders lately is almost unbelievable considering you have read reloading books. Most sizers, but not all, size enough that the expander does a little work.

I'm glad to get the feedback. I like to read how it is supposed to be done.
What I'm using now is the insert in my powder measure from powderfunnels.com and it does nothing but bell the case mouth slightly.

And you guys are correct. I went back to look and see that my Lee die says it is a powder thru expander die but all it does when I use it is put a small flair on the case mouth.

Guess I need to read the instructions.

 

[k4swb]

243winxb Wrote:

k4swb, here is what they look like. RCBS 38 expander/decap/bell & Dillion 45 powder funnel/expander.

[/URL][/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG] When loading a soft lead bullet, the expander becomes very important, as the brass can size the bullet smaller in diameter. Click photos for larger view so you can SEE them better.

I guess I'm missing something. As I said in the above post, some of my dies do say expander but they don't. They just bell the case mouth on handgun cases. I rather like the way mine work and it keeps me from worrying about another useless dimension.

 

[Walkalong]

The sizer must size any thickness of brass down enough to securely hold the seated bullet. For thick brass this can be too much. The expander brings the brass's ID back up to a good ID that will give adequate neck tension and still be relatively easy to seat the bullets. It also gives us a more consistent neck tension. The consistency is the good part. If I were shooting Bullseye, or "Benchrest pistol" (Yep, just made that up), I would sort brass to get the most consistent case wall thickness i could, but I don't, so I won't. Besides, I can't shoot that well with a pistol. Well, but not that well.

I have a couple of sizers that just barely get thin brass where I need it, so then the expander is barely doing anything on that thin brass, but is still doing noticeable expanding on thick brass.

I have one set where if I use my largest sizer, the expander drops in the thin brass with no resistance, so I do not use that sizer since I am not interested in sorting out all my RB brass. It is marked and put away with the other extra dies.

I am running an LNL, but use my regular expanders in station # 2, while dropping powder in station # 3.

 

[Walkalong]

Here is an excellent post from noylj in another thread, which covers why we want to expand the cases as well. While he does not mention "consistency" per say, it is inferred. His point of not squeezing the lead bullet undersized in tight brass is an excellent one. Since he shoots handguns for accuracy, tries a lot of things, while making careful notes, I always "listen up" when he posts.

 

[beatledog7]

My experience here reveals the effect Walkalong describes, and the noylj post he refers to spells it out as well.

In my batch, many factors contributed to the problem: sized .44 Magnum cases accommodated .430" bullets without expansion, but squeezed the bullets down to .426" during the seating process. I wasn't sure why until I measured a bullet more carefully. The shanks are truly .430", but the bases are about .423" and can therefore easily sit in the case mouth without expansion.

The apparent hardness of CBC brass (which ultimately forced the softer lead bullet to to squeezed upon insertion) is something I didn't count on. If I had expanded the cases to my die's .428" diameter, the bullets would have been squeezed a lot less, and the resulting neck tension may have been better even with the cases' ID being .428 vice the .426 that resulted from the resizing step. Accuracy would presumably be better as well.

Really soft brass might have itself expanded as the bullet was inserted as it does with jacketed bullets, thus preserving the bullets' .430" size.

 

[atonguis]

Yes. Check the expander diameter, it should be .002" or more smaller than bullet diameter. Do not use the FCD to crimp.

umm *cough* bump

 

[workingman]

Even if you can push them back you can still shoot them. As long as you load them one at a time. I am assuming you are using a revolver. I would be afraid to try to cycle them through a lever action.