Vibe motor for powder measure - powder settling

[Rule3]

Thanks for your input. If this topic is ridiculous, why did you respond?

If I want to listen to a piece of equipment vibrate I do believe that’s my business.

Because that is my opinion on the subject. Apparently you feel that only those that agree with your "idea" should post.? That's what forums are all about. Point Counterpoint.
As I mentioned there are many many threads on this "idea" so you are not the first.
By all means hook up a vibrator.

 

[Pat Riot]

Gee, Thanks. I will.

 

[Rule3]

Maybe LiveLife could do a myth busting, Beta, Unboxing combined review?

 

[Pat Riot]

Maybe LiveLife could do a myth busting, Beta, Unboxing combined review?

I understand that you are actually trying to help me. Believe it or not, I do appreciate it.
Trying a vibe motor is an experiment. If it works, good. If not, then I will try a light weight for compressing the powder.
I only seem to have this issue with flake powders. Ball powders, like; W231 and W244 meter pretty well from my Uniflow powder measure. I may just drop flake powder and use ball powders from now on if I can’t get decent and consistent powder drops.

Thank you.

 

[Skgreen]

Are those of you using vibration to settle powder also using a baffle?

I may just drop flake powder and use ball powders from now on. I've been steering the same way as of late, but I still have a keg-plus of Universal I need to work through.

 

[jmorris]

Trying a vibe motor is an experiment. If it works, good. If not, then I will try a light weight for compressing the powder.

When we were growing silicon crystals (float zone) we used vibration and purged the column from the bottom to top with argon at a low rate as well as vibrating.

We used "massager" motors and machined our own housings for them. Just a little motor with a brass weigh offset on the end. Too much wasn't a good thing, I suggest a PWM speed controler if you go down that road.

 

[mm93]

Get a different powder measure. I used a Lyman 55 for decades and it had the little weight you flipped each time you raised the charge handle to ensure powder dropped completely each time. It was easy to flip it with a finger as you dropped each charge.
Later I changed to a Harrell's Precision micrometer powder measure, and never had any issues with deviations in charges and didn't need a vibrator or help getting consistent charges. They're not inexpensive powder measures, but they're extremely accurate. And the best part is the click adjustments mean I can write down how many clicks for a certain charge and powder, and simply dial in the same number next time and get the exact same charge. They have threaded hopper bottles, so for a small cost I have a half dozen hoppers with load data for a particular powder on the bottles. So I remove a bottle and put the lid on it; then grab a different powder bottle and dial in the clicks for that powder and charge and it's ready for the next cases to charge.

 

[Pat Riot]

Get a different powder measure. I used a Lyman 55 for decades and it had the little weight you flipped each time you raised the charge handle to ensure powder dropped completely each time. It was easy to flip it with a finger as you dropped each charge.
Later I changed to a Harrell's Precision micrometer powder measure, and never had any issues with deviations in charges and didn't need a vibrator or help getting consistent charges. They're not inexpensive powder measures, but they're extremely accurate. And the best part is the click adjustments mean I can write down how many clicks for a certain charge and powder, and simply dial in the same number next time and get the exact same charge. They have threaded hopper bottles, so for a small cost I have a half dozen hoppers with load data for a particular powder on the bottles. So I remove a bottle and put the lid on it; then grab a different powder bottle and dial in the clicks for that powder and charge and it's ready for the next cases to charge.

Thank you very much. I will definitely look into these. I was wondering if another powder measure might be the answer.

 

[Rule3]

I understand that you are actually trying to help me. Believe it or not, I do appreciate it.
Trying a vibe motor is an experiment. If it works, good. If not, then I will try a light weight for compressing the powder.
I only seem to have this issue with flake powders. Ball powders, like; W231 and W244 meter pretty well from my Uniflow powder measure. I may just drop flake powder and use ball powders from now on if I can’t get decent and consistent powder drops.

Thank you.

Do you have a powder baffle in the RCBs ? I have an older one with deal rotors. Keep it over 1/2 full and use a baffle.

 

[Pat Riot]

Do you have a powder baffle in the RCBs ? I have an older one with deal rotors. Keep it over 1/2 full and use a baffle.

I do have the baffle in.

Edit: Now that you mention I rarely put powder in more than a third of the way full when reloading. Do you think maybe this might be my problem? I usually only load 100-200 pistol rounds at a time.

 

[mm93]

I do have the baffle in.

Edit: Now that you mention I rarely put powder in more than a third of the way full when reloading. Do you think maybe this might be my problem? I usually only load 100-200 pistol rounds at a time.

Powder fill in the hopper of a measure can indeed have an effect on how it works. Better to have it more full than less full. It would be an easy experiment to try though. Simply drop 5 charges with the hopper low and measure each, and then fill it to around 75%, and drop 5 more and measure each. If the charges are more consistent with a full hopper, then keep it above 50% full and start charging cases.

 

[Pat Riot]

Powder fill in the hopper of a measure can indeed have an effect on how it works. Better to have it more full than less full. It would be an easy experiment to try though. Simply drop 5 charges with the hopper low and measure each, and then fill it to around 75%, and drop 5 more and measure each. If the charges are more consistent with a full hopper, then keep it above 50% full and start charging cases.

I was thinking that very thing. I just hate emptying powder when I have a lot of powder in the hopper. I haven’t come up with a quick way of doing that.

 

[Blue68f100]

All depends if and where the baffle is set at. Just don't run your level below the baffle. I prefer to have about 1" of powder over the baffle. Now if you have the cuts on the baffle in the wrong position they do not work.

 

[nettlle]

Vibration with powder measures, powder scales, tricklers and anything precision is not good. A lot of us (me) spend a lot of time and effort building the most solid mounts and benches for our reloading equipment. The precision measures, scales, tricklers are designed to be used without vibration. If you are to prove that wrong I wish you all the luck in the world. I have tried baffles. To me they are a placebo. I ended up buying powder measures that worked as they should without a baffle.

 

[Pat Riot]

All depends if and where the baffle is set at. Just don't run your level below the baffle. I prefer to have about 1" of powder over the baffle. Now if you have the cuts on the baffle in the wrong position they do not work.

I basically have this exact set up :

Picture from Dack Outdoors then mod’d on Mematic to reduce the size to 76kb

RCBS 98908 Competition Powder Measure 40 Grains Capacity Green

<p>The competition powder measure starts with the proven uniflow powder measure with its precision ground metering drum and honed main casting. RCBS then adds a powder baffle and UPM micrometer adjustment screw. The powder baffle controls the powder flow and the pressure of the powder column on...

www.dackoutdoors.com

 

[Jim Watson]

What could be more annoying then listening to a "vibrator/fish pump" humming while reloading?

Hearing your gun go "ptooey" when you get one grain of powder instead of 2.5 for .38 wadcutter.

I may just drop flake powder and use ball powders from now on

In my early single stage days, Bullseye would smear and bind in my Redding measure, so I started loading pistol ammo with the same large flake 700X as for 12 gauge. The Redding did well enough. But when I went progressive with a CH Autochamp, I started getting the occasional one grain load (never a zero load with stuck bullet "squib.") So I asked CH what to do. The rep said they tested their pistol measures with Win 231, so I changed over.

In later years, I had about quit loading 12 gauge, so I tried the leftover 700X again in a Dillon. Same deal, the occasional one grain load. I had seen something about vibrators, so I hung a $6 Walmart aquarium air pump on the hopper and used up the rest of 700X without a short charge.

I now load 9mm and .38 with HP38 and .45 Minor with Bullseye, which also meters well in the Dillon bar.

Loading for rifles when I got into F TR class, I tried AA2520 which measured like a dream, no trickler required. But almost any extruded powder was more accurate in mine and a friend's Savage .308s was enough more accurate to tell, so I got a PACT electric dispenser.

 

[mm93]

I was thinking that very thing. I just hate emptying powder when I have a lot of powder in the hopper. I haven’t come up with a quick way of doing that.

That's just another reason I bought the Harrell's Precision measure! With extra hopper bottles that have their own lids I can just take them off and leave the powder in the bottles. I have 6 bottles and 4 of them are labeled for powders I use most often. So I don't have to dump the powder back in the containers when I stop. I just remove them and put a lid on.
Harrell's charges about $10 ea. for extra bottles, but I found lab supply places online that have the same bottles for under $3 each.

 

[Pat Riot]

@Jim Watson Thank you for the powder advice. I load .308 Winchester and use IMR-4895. It’s crunchy at times in my RCBS Uniflow powder measure. I looked up AA 2520. I will be getting some of that powder to try in my .308 hand loads.

 

[berettaprofessor]

This ridiculous topic has been around for years. Scroll down to the bottom for threads

What could be more annoying then listening to a "vibrator/fish pump" humming while reloading?
Thanks for your input. If this topic is ridiculous, why did you respond?

If I want to listen to a piece of equipment vibrate I do believe that’s my business.

Rule3 might have replied a little more diplomatically, and not to put words in his mouth, but he may be coming from the same place I am. Which is that I've never needed a vibratory powder dispenser and don't understand why I would ever strap an adult toy to my powder measures.

Now, admittedly, I do most of my loading either by a Lee Autodisk on a turret (pistol calibers) or through a Chargemaster Lite (rifle). In the first instance, the mere rotation of the turret through stages probably keeps the powder flowing. In the second, obviously each is being weighed so it gets there eventually.

Regardless, you can vibrate it if you want, or you can switch to a different dispenser for problem powders.

 

[Tilos]

Thank you I did. Your weight idea and the graphite for static. That’s a new one I hadn’t heard before.

Thanks for responding to my post.
Several days have passed and I'm just curious as to why you haven't made or tried a wooden weight yet?
Making that weight and testing it will either prove or disprove its viability.
Pic of the diy wooden weight:
View attachment 1198590
I use that weight when loading for handgun on my progressives. (piggybacks, Pro1000, Loadmaster).
I throw 10 drops into a long tube and weigh it for consistency.
Pics of those long tubes:
View attachment 1198589
Those tubes are of a length to fit into the press opening, under the PTX die.
I just hold those tubes up-under the PTX die and follow it upward as I manually operate the power measure.
jmo,
.

 

[Pat Riot]

Thanks for responding to my post.
Several days have passed and I'm just curious as to why you haven't made or tried a wooden weight yet?
Making that weight and testing it will either prove or disprove its viability.
Pic of the diy wooden weight:
View attachment 1198590
I use that weight when loading for handgun on my progressives. (piggybacks, Pro1000, Loadmaster).
I throw 10 drops into a long tube and weigh it for consistency.
Pics of those long tubes:
View attachment 1198589
Those tubes are of a length to fit into the press opening, under the PTX die.
I just hold those tubes up-under the PTX die and follow it upward as I manually operate the power measure.
jmo,
.

Thanks. I haven’t tried anything new with my powder measure yet. I received the aquarium motor yesterday. I may get around to it tomorrow or the next day.

 

[Pat Riot]

OKAY! Did a test with Universal today.
I set up my Aquarium pump and used rubber bands to secure it against the hopper. As I was setting up my digital scale it dawned on me the vibration might affect the digital scale. I also thought about how vibration might affect the integrity of the individual balls and flakes of the powders I use and off came the vibe unit. Scrubbed vibe motor idea.

I then did 4 tests: See index card below
1. I filled the hopper the way I would normally fill my powder measure if I were loading 100 or so 9mm rounds. Powder just over top of the baffle. A single whack of the handle up and down, just like I always do normally. Deviation .16 grains

2. Hopper filled the same as above only whacking the handle twice at the bottom of the throw and twice at the top of the throw. THIS definitely compacted the powder, but I still got a deviation of .26 grains in 6 throws.

3 Filled hopper to the top with the baffle in. Made a heckuva mess when whacking the lever down then up. Put cap back on. . In 6 throws I got a deviation of .18 grains.

4. This one was interesting @Tilos I had to find a way to put consistent pressure on the head of the powder column. I chose a medicine bottle with five 147 grain bullets in it. Total Weight 1,062grains. I removed the baffle and filled hopper half way. I got a deviation of .18 grains.



SMAS (small micro adj. screw) setting 158 for all testing.


How I would normally fill hopper to load 100 rounds. Used this for test 1 & 2


Full hopper for test 3 with baffle in.


Weighted powder column test 4.

Same set up as photo above


My decision:
Eventually I think I am going to take the advice of @mm93 and but a Harrell's Precision measure. It’ll be a few months, but I will get one. Fixed income and several hobbies take strategic budgeting.
Until then I am going to convert my use of flake powders to ball powders for many of my loads.
Most of my loads using flake powder are more like plinking loads and I don’t load near maximum pressures.

NOTE: I did a quick test with HP-38 filling the hopper as shown in Test 1 and setting the SMAS at 155 which should give me ~5.0 grains. The deviation in 6 throws (highest to lowest measurement) was .09 grains. 4.90-4.99 grains
I can live with that. It was just a quick test at the end of what I was willing to do today. Back hurts.

So, there you have it. The bottom line is Flake Powders just do not meter as well as Ball Powders in any of my configurations with an RCBS Uniflow powder measure.

 

[Jim Watson]

1. I filled the hopper the way I would normally fill my powder measure if I were loading 100 or so 9mm rounds. Powder just over top of the baffle. A single whack of the handle up and down, just like I always do normally. Deviation .16 grains

That is +/- 0.08 grain or 1.6%. I would not spend on a new measure to try to beat that.

 

[Pat Riot]

That is +/- 0.08 grain or 1.6%. I would not spend on a new measure to try to beat that.

I understand your point, but I may buy it just because I want a very accurate powder measure for specific loads.
Plinking ammo is one thing. Practicing for accuracy is another.
For me this all started one day recently when I was shooting my S&W model 25 and my model 19. I was resting the model 19 shooting light magnum loads and I put 5 rounds in a small group. They were nearly touching. The 6th round had a lighter report and hit about 2” high above that group. I reloaded and this time 1 round sounded light and 1 sounded a little louder.
Something similar happened with my model 25 using Unique in .45 Colt.
This bothered me, so I started looking for a way to throw more consistent charges without using a trickler.
Also, I have a plan to create some really accurate pistol caliber loads for my pistol caliber rifles and carbines.
This is more about fun than it is anything else. It’s just something I want to do.

 

[ballman6711]

For the cost of the Harrell's powder measure you could buy an electronic dispenser, which would trickle up and weigh every charge for you. Set it to your desired charge and you're done.

The Harrell's would last longer though.

chris