arcticap
Member
M1 Garand US Service Rifle - Range Test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r82YYdje4xE&list=TLQkhBTJAL3ylcmombhiHcIFuIAN1EGRV6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r82YYdje4xE&list=TLQkhBTJAL3ylcmombhiHcIFuIAN1EGRV6
Video - M1 Garand US Service Rifle - Range Test
- Thread starter arcticap
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Welding Rod
Member
I agree, "nice gun"!
Congratulations!
Congratulations!
phonesysphonesys
Member
Does,it shoot better with the tag on it?
"1944/1945" - was he talking about the stock? I may be wrong, but I don't think H&R made M1's in WWII, only Springfield and Winchester. After the war other mfg's came online. But it's a nice rifle! Fun to shoot, ain't it? I love mine. Everybody should have one.
OP
OP
arcticap
Member
rondog,
The H&R M1 Garand was still a U.S. Service Rifle even if this individual one wasn't used during World War II.
According to Wikipedia:
This rifle was probably lent to the armed forces of an ally country for training and/or invasion readiness.
Mea culpa. I should have used a rest. But I did show a close up of the target after each ammo clip was empty.
It reminded me of the guns that American Indians used with a feather hanging off the forestock of the gun. Maybe it helped to identify the wind direction & strength so that they could apply some Kentucky windage when shooting at long range. So the answer is yes, a rifle will always shoot better with a hang tag attached!
The H&R M1 Garand was still a U.S. Service Rifle even if this individual one wasn't used during World War II.
According to Wikipedia:
This rifle was probably lent to the armed forces of an ally country for training and/or invasion readiness.
HKGuns said:
Mea culpa. I should have used a rest. But I did show a close up of the target after each ammo clip was empty.
phonesysphonesys said:
It reminded me of the guns that American Indians used with a feather hanging off the forestock of the gun. Maybe it helped to identify the wind direction & strength so that they could apply some Kentucky windage when shooting at long range. So the answer is yes, a rifle will always shoot better with a hang tag attached!
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Springfield and Winchester were the only manufacturers of Garands during World War II.
During the ramp up for production for the Korean war, Springfield, Harrington and Richardson (HRA), and International Harvester (yes, the tractor folks) produced Garands. The conflict was almost over by the time HRA and IHC got into production though.
There were no WWII vintage HRA Garands.
During the ramp up for production for the Korean war, Springfield, Harrington and Richardson (HRA), and International Harvester (yes, the tractor folks) produced Garands. The conflict was almost over by the time HRA and IHC got into production though.
There were no WWII vintage HRA Garands.
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The receiver is an H&R with a serial number that would put production in 1953 or 1954. The barrel is a June 1954 H&R. The stock is a 1944/45 Springfield, based on the inspection marks. The bolt is an H&R. The oprod and trigger group are postwar Springfield Armory parts.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Like said above, all HRA M1 Garand rifles were manufactured post WWII.
Just one note, you are going to find out what "Garand thumb" means if you keep loading the ammo they way you are. (and you are not going to like it) It looks like you need to oil that action a bit more.
I think the M1 is probably the best range rifle available today. It is for sure on the top of my list, I own 2X HRA Garnads and wouldn't sell either. One actually had all HRA parts but for the rear sight. Luckily the second rifle had an HRA rear sight so a quick switch gave me a complete HRA M1 Garand, very rare from CMP for sure...
Just one note, you are going to find out what "Garand thumb" means if you keep loading the ammo they way you are. (and you are not going to like it) It looks like you need to oil that action a bit more.
I think the M1 is probably the best range rifle available today. It is for sure on the top of my list, I own 2X HRA Garnads and wouldn't sell either. One actually had all HRA parts but for the rear sight. Luckily the second rifle had an HRA rear sight so a quick switch gave me a complete HRA M1 Garand, very rare from CMP for sure...
I never disputed that, or claimed that mine was wartime production. That was a misinterpretation of my scripting the actual speaker. Personally, I didn't want to have anything to do with being on that video.
It probably could have used a little bit more lubrication.
To my knowledge, the bolt was locked rear, not resting on the follower, so I'm not too concerned about jamming my thumb. Additionally, as I get a feel for where the clip locks, I am becoming much more comfortable with having the rest of my hand where it belongs.
One should never experience "Garand thumb" while inserting a loaded enbloc clip. That only happens when pushing the bullet guide down in an empty rifle to close the bolt. The bolt should never close just because you put a fresh clip in, if it does then something's wrong. The bolt will release from the fully locked back position, but it should never ride home on it's own. It has to be bumped into battery.
Think about it - if the M1 would smash thumbs while loading a clip, every GI in WWII and Korea would have hated that rifle, and it likely would have caused a lot of deaths and casualties by taking men out of action with injured thumbs and inability to reload. It didn't become the most beloved battle rifle in US history by smashing soldiers thumbs in the heat of combat.
Only happens when closing the bolt on an unloaded rifle, and only if you're not paying attention. Should never happen. If it does, you've just received a lesson! Learn from it.
Dave P
Member
"so I'm not too concerned about jamming my thumb"
You should be. Its not jamming, it is smashing your thumb. Say bye-bye to your thumbnail.
There are some good instructions out there. Think of a right hand karate chop.
You should be. Its not jamming, it is smashing your thumb. Say bye-bye to your thumbnail.
There are some good instructions out there. Think of a right hand karate chop.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Or the tip of your finger.
Sorry for the slight sidetrack but when I saw the way you were loading I was worried. You should keep the back side of your hand against the op-rod extension while pushing the en-bloc down into the rifle. A "Garand thumb" is missing the tip BTW.
Nope, the bolt on a Garand should release when the clip is fully inserted in the rifle. Many do fully go into battery requiring a bump on the op rod to get the bolt closed. it is not considered to be a problem or failure.
The op rod is not to release until the clip is fully inserted and latched and stripping the top round tends to "control" the speed of the bolt closing.
Sometimes you have to fully insert the clip and then retract the op rod a bit to get it to release.
With a full clip inserted into the rifle, it usually pushes the thumb out of the way as the bolt moves home.
As mentioned, one of the most frequent reason for an M1 thumb is pushing down on the follower when the bolt is not properly locked back. The bolt releases unexpectedly and with no clip in the rifle, it closes very quickly.
In this instance, usually the bolt is held by the follower not the bolt latch. When the follower is pushed down, the bolt slams home.
1KPerDay
Member
Incorrect.
Though the bolt on this rifle is locked back to the correct location, it will not (for some reason) go forward when the clip is inserted. (Maybe it's a good thing that it didn't) I should make sure that I keep the rear of my hand on the oprod when I insert the clip- as a precaution. Hopefully with more cleaning and better lubrication it will work correctly.
On the reload, the bolt did go forward with greater ease than on the initial string, which was recorded.
My lack of concern about getting slammed is based on what I've read, that the bolt will not go forward so long as there is downward pressure on the rounds being loaded.WHen my thumb was in front of the bolt, I was either applying downward pressure on the clip/ top round and/or did have the rear of my hand blocking the oprod.
The bolt should release when a full clip if FULLY inserted into the rifle. At the bottom of the insertion, the clip should latch in and the bolt gets released. Fully inserted often feels like it is farther than necessary.
Any place before the clip is fully inserted, the bolt should not release.
The bolt should release even if you have downward pressure on the clip.
Inserting a partially filled clip will not release the bolt automatically. You have to hold the clip down and pull back on the op rod to get the bolt to release. It is the follower reaching the bottom of its stroke that releases the bolt.
Sometimes, the resistance of rounds in the clip is enough to retard the bolt going into battery. A bump on the op rod gets it going. Some folks bump the op rod after the op rod has gone home to make sure the bolt is completely in battery.
If you insert a full clip all the way until it bottoms out and the bolt does not release, there is a problem with your rifle. It may be something simple like assembly or lubrication or it may be out of time. I have never experienced an out of time rifle but there are gauges to determine that. Except for swapping out parts, I cannot tell you what the fix is. When I experience one, I will do the research (no sense cluttering up the memory cells at the moment).
Hope this helps and makes sense.
It does make sense. What I've found based on online research is that sometimes, the bolt may not release (on its own) because it needed cleaning/ lubrication, that certain parts may be worn, that there may be burrs, that there may be roughness, bullet guide problems, so on. It is apparently a common issue. Aside from the 1st loading, where it stuck extra, a little retraction to the rear had it working right. In time, we'll figure it out-- and apply correct loading techniques.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I noticed when the OP was loading his Garand the bolt did not release when he pushed the loaded clip into the rifle. That was the reason I mentioned he probably needed to lube/oil the rifle a bit more.
OP
OP
arcticap
Member
The 2nd clip was only loaded with 7 rounds which did make it easier to close the bolt, and safer for the thumb that way too.
Having taken it apart, and reassembled it several times now, (in addition to lubrication), the action seems to work a lot better. The parts seemed a lot stickier at first. I can definetely say that I have a little more respect for the bolt release now, and that with a little bit of practice, the loading process is much more natural.
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