Video of gang attack on NYC Subway

[bsf]

So if you fail to "do the right thing", and a mob of animals beats you up, you "get what you deserved" ? Interesting take on civil society.

It's obvious the man was a sheep and not a sheepdog. Saying he deserved it is like saying a women that was sexually assaulted brought it on herself. Quite a condescending comment torwards the victim here don't you think?

Yes it is condescending. It is no different than people getting a kick out of Darwin Award announcements. If you do not want to get hit by a semi-truck doing 70mph, do not stand in the expressway.

We are getting off track. This is S&T. My proposed S&T is to simply avoid the problem in the first place if possible. Simple. No-brainer. It appears the doofus made little or no attempt at this. If that fails, well I will leave it up to more qualified people than I to comment.

 

[K9 PO]

Sometimes you can do everything right and still be wrong. So he was a timid man, perhaps even a doofus. But he was a victim of a crime and he did not choose to go out that day looking for a fight.

 

[W.E.G.]

WWHLD?

(What Would Hannibal Lechter Do?)

 

[Handyman]

The guy is an idiot . Why did he choose to get into a verbal confrontation with those ignorant creeps . He should have kept his mouth shut and / or just walked away .

 

[Autolycus]

Originally posted by FourTeeFive/B]: Looks like his only crime was being melanin-challenged. If the situation (skin colors) were reversed the courts would be all over this as a hate crime. And can you prove the firsst little tidbit? Or is it just a bunch of racist crap that you are spewing?

That said, it looks like a bunch of wanna-be-tough girls out to cause trouble. Didn't look like a huge threat to me, but who knows if one or more carried a knife or something else.

I don't think I'd be pulling out my blade in response to this instance. Definitely would try distancing myself to avoid the confrontation, and if they followed and escalated, then would use physical but not lethal force.

Actually, I dont think race has anything to do with this. And your not familiar with what a hate crime is. I suggest reading some.

Either way it does not look like these kids are a gang. At least not part of an ORGANIZED CRIMINAL ASSOCIATION, however they were a group of kids. It seems that the man said something to one of them and that is what triggered it. Perhaps he pawed at one of them early on.

It seems as if he is the aggressor in the beginning. If you watch the first 30 seconds he slides over next to one of the girls. They then that girl leaves. He then starts to get berated for drinking and being drunk. (This takes place at around 1:30 or so in the afternoon. At about 1:50 into the video clip the girl yells at him for drinking at 1:24 in the afternoon.)

I think the drunkard probably said the wrong thing or did the wrong thing to the wrong group of people.

 

[plexreticle]

Hate crimes against non minorities are tolerated for some reason.

When they finally jumped on him it was rather weak. He could have easily kneed the girl in the white cap. I don't believe they were even trying to hurt him.

These young ladies are gonna be in for a surprise someday when they hate crime the wrong person.

 

[psychophipps]

The second the ringleader advanced into my space I would have stood up and stepped over to be in one of the entrance/exit doorway areas. If my 6' 4" and 240lbs of mean-looking big, ugly white boy didn't get the job done, her next aggressive step would involve some careful discussion on what her continued advancing might lead to on her part along the lines of "stay back or you're gonna get hurt". More aggression obviously leading to a potential assault from multiple assailants? I'd grab the gobby one by the hair and bounce her head off those handy-dandy vertical steel braces around me a few times. Probably stuff a knee into her a few times for good measure as well. By keeping their friend between me and the homegirls, I have attained a very nice choke point from which I can hold them off until the next stop where I would step out and project their friend back into the car before doing a runner.
I have dealt with such people on subway-equivalents before and it's amazing how their friends all stop suddenly when you totally destroy the loudmouth in a second or two, flip them around so the group can see their friend's bloody face while you apply a choke-type hold with your thumb knuckle buried in the guys mastoid. Give them a look of absolute determination and ask, "Which one of you wants this next?" before cranking in your thumb to hear their friend yelp in pain.

No takers so far...

 

[sterling180]

Although it's a suprise to see girl gangs(I haven't seen many before.),who copy their male counterparts.I'm also not suprised at their ethnic backgrounds either,but stupid white and hispanic kids,also copy the 'hip-hop' 'bay-boy' style too.

That guy shouldn't have mouthed off and should have walked into a different carriage and dialled 911 and got the cops involved,instead of being the big man.What a fool.

 

[LKB3rd]

This guy should have kept his mouth shut, and formulated a plan to agressively attack the weakest one(the bigmouth girl) the instant it was clear they were going to attack. Just taking a stance of not playing into this nonsense may have made them go find someone who entertained their BS.
This guy also allowed the situation to escalate by trying to reason with obviously unreasonable people.
Even if he ended up losing the fight, taking out the weakest one or two would have made his situation less severe, and would have possibly dissuaded them from continuing.
Another thing would have been to instruct someone to call the cops as soon as they continued their agressive stance. That would have been the only thing i would have said. Not saying the cops would have stopped the attack, but they could have been waiting at the next stop to provide medical assistance and/or arrest the attackers. It would also establish that you felt you were about to be attacked, and justify you using force against them in self defense.
It's easy to play internet quarterback after the fact, and i feel for this guy. No matter what he did or didn't do, he obviously didn't deserve any of it.

 

[ShunZu]

It's easy to play internet quarterback after the fact, and i feel for this guy. No matter what he did or didn't do, he obviously didn't deserve any of it.

+1
Welcome to mass transit in NYC. Sometimes I'm glad to be a country boy. Like... now.

 

[ZeSpectre]

I'm not going to judge the guy, but I wonder why he didn't grab one of them as a shield.

 

[Mac Attack]

I agree that the guy should have just left the area rather than sit there waiting for something to happen. On the other hand, if he did step into the situation because he may have been coming to someone elses defense, then I think he did the civil thing. The thing is that many people are uncivil and act like animals.

I didn't see this on the news. I bet if it was a bunch of white female teens beating on a black man it would have made the news. If that was the case I am sure you would see the ACLU, Rev. Jessie Jackson, Danny Glover and all the usual suspects jumping in to say that it was a hate crime against Blacks.

Like they say, the squeaky wheel gets all the oil.

 

[OAKTOWN]

Interesting video, seems the feral little savages are the same as ours. It didn't seem he got too messed up though. I see a couple ways he screwed up.

1. Not being armed. When I ride public transit I ALWAYS have my knife (spyderco that doubles as a kubotan) and often pepper spray.
2. Not walking away. It can end the situation and if it goes sideway and you wind up in court, you look like the good guy.
3. Not having an escape. He let his antagonists get between him and the doors to the other cars.

I noticed the NYC subway cars look pretty wide. You'd have to make it to the doors before they couldn't surround you.

 

[roo_ster]

Hardware, Software, & a Real Mess

It seems most subways/trains are in places that have laws against carrying weapons for self defense or even self-defense itself. So, bringing my buddies Smith and Wesson to the party is likely a non-starter.

SOFTWARE

My first response to the mess would be to stand up and put on my old Ranger Face.

If that did not do the trick, I would have used some old-school verbal commands in a manner to make my old drill sergeants proud.

[If I was required to use verbal commands, I would have gotten off at the next stop. No sense letting them stew over a verbal beat-down and rally their courage.]

If neither RF or verbal commands work and they persist in escalation before I can get off the train, I move toward the exit doors and keep my back to the doors, if possible, and get off the train at the next stop.

[If I am crowded or advanced on in my retreat, I give that person--at minimum--a strike to the throat. Why? Such an advance on their part constitutes that they are following and attempting to prevent me from leaving. I will have performed the (likely legally obligatory in non-free states) attempt to retreat and it was not successful. Time to go to Fist City. Also, the aggressors in the video and in such situations do not get into any sort of fighting stance it seems, and do not lower their jaw & head to cover their throat...and it takes less force to incapacitate with a throat strike than most others.]

If it starts to go to a physical confrontation, I would retaliate with violence as extreme as I could muster. What would that require? A chest bump, push, or that knucklehead trying to whomp me with the bottle. I am not a cop trying to subdue anyone and I am not anyone's punching bag. I would not attempt to restrain, hold, or the like, with multiple attackers. I would aim for the most debilitating blow, every time, until I was out of harm's way or incapacitated.

If I were still standing when the next stop arrived, I would do my best to exit & run off and call 911 when I am in a relatively safe place. I have no doubt that if the situation got physical and I got away, that some of my attackers would require medical treatment and the story would get to the police. Best to get my side in the hopper and report it ASAP.

HARDWARE

Frankly, in this sort of situation, software is much more important than hardware, hardware being heavily restricted.

If legal, I would have a concealed firearm. Truthfully, I am not sure the close confines of the train car and the numerous bystanders make it the best weapon for the job.

If I legally were able to, I would carry a knife. My usual carry knife is a slick, light, ~3" blade Beretta quick-open job. The knife would be used if the pack got violent. It would have been easy enough to have it palmed in my hand at the first sign of trouble. If the pack got violent, it would be open, looking for throats & other such targets. My purpose would NOT be to inflict superficial cuts here & there. Multiple attackers are a real threat to life & limb. I would respond likewise. Perhaps seeing one of their number on the floor bleeding like a stuck pig would give pause to the pack.

If a knife is not an option, I can bring my Surefire 6P about anywhere. It would also be in my fist at the first sign of trouble and would lend heft to any blows. A roll of pennies performs the same function.

I am not a big fan of OC, as I have eaten some of it and still been able to function at close quarters. I assume I am not unique. Also, do I really want to let OC loose in a confined train car? Not only would my attackers get a snootfull, but everyone else in the car would get some, too.

WIFE & KIDS

OK, why don't we make this scenario really stinking hairy. I/you are not alone facing the pack. Your wife & kids (let us assume toddlers) are with you.

I would still respond, initially, with my Ranger Face and then verbal commands. Even if I just used the RF, I would get the family off at the next stop. I will not fiddle around, I will get my family outta Dodge ASAP if I think the situation is hinky.

If neither RF nor verbal commands work, it is getting ugly, because you just plain can not retreat in the face of a threat with your family right there. Edging over to the exit door to slip out quick-like at the next stop is not possible with little kids or, really, with any group larger than two.

If the exit arrives before it has gotten physical, I use verbal commands to ge tthe pack members out of the way and make serious theats to hurt any who prevent our exit.

If it gets physical before the exit arrives I do not spare any means to incapacitate the attackers in the quickest way possible with whatever I have at hand: firearm, knife, OC, whatever. I instruct my wife to keep the kids clear and move out, away from the struggle, into another car, if need be and to get off when the next stop arrives. If the exit arrives during the struggle, I keep up the struggle while my wife gets the kids outta there.

Man, that would be a mess and a nightmare. I don't think I want to take my family to NYC...or use public transportation of any sort, now that I think on it.

 

[Jaenak]

Although I can't claim to be a gang banger and/or live in a major metropolitan area, I can say my neighborhood growing up was rough and tumble enough to teach anyone something. Two things I learned that could have kept this from happening at all are:

1. Never initiate eye contact. Initiating eye contact is considered confrontational and should be avoided unless in a conversation.

2. Mind your own damn business. Unless those girls were his children or were arguing over who would get the priviledge of having his baby, he never should have stuck his neck out to begin with.

The girls appeared to be arguing amongst themselves and he stepped in and told them to stop. If the object of the argument didn't directly involve him, then his request to stop arguing would be unwelcome and intrusive. If he would have kept his mouth shut and minded his own damn business and never established eye contact, they never would have picked up on him in the first place. My opinion is that all this was his fault and had he used some common sense, none of that would have happened.

 

[Alex45ACP]

I would give the first one to touch me a right cross to the face, and repeat as necessary. I don't care who they are or if they're a guy or a girl. I've dealt with people like this, most of them are just "along for the ride", after you put the first one on the floor with a broken nose/teeth the rest will probably leave you alone. If not, shoot them.

I'm sorry, but I just have absolutely no patience for these animals and I get absolutely infuriated when I see people acting this way. I've had to deal with people like that before and a lot of times just let people get away with it because I didn't want to escalate the situation, but enough is enough and I've decided I will no longer tolerate it and I won't be laid a hand on without serious consequences.

I do agree with the guy above me though, he shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place.

 

[tepin]

0. yell a long string of profanity
1. move cars
2. mace
3. goto step zero

 

[shmavistime]

I wouldn't call that a beat down. More like a slap. I'm thinking a NYC girl like that doesn't have the physical strength to provide a beat down because the only exorcise they get is lighting a crack pipe and walking to the abortion clinic. Still, he should have been more assertive. If I was him and it got worse, I would have broken her nose into 5 pieces.

 

[SeanSw]

It sure looks like he was trying to avoid a confrontation to me. Even after being struck repeatedly he takes the blows instead of duking it out. I can't tell whether this is out of fear of retaliation, from his attackers or from the law, or out of cowardice. Until the final moments when the girls really began to surround him the victim seemed intent to say his part and stay put. However they choose to interpret it your verbal defense should never be mistaken as an attack. Standing up and moving may have started the violence sooner, they could have seen that as a preemptive strike, not avoidance.

Strategy? First, forget about John Q. Public stepping in to help. You're on your own. Second, ignore all the smiling faces who think it's just a game. Third, when the attack comes, counter with full force. They crossed the line so make make an example of them and force them back to the other side.

Also, I wouldn't counter a plastic bottle with a knife. Maybe a boot.

A similar situation occurred to a friend wthat was surrounded by a dozen or more young black women with attitudes regarding their "personal space". The first one hit him across the face with a handbag, the rest joined in with backpacks, and my friend grabbed the ringleader by the arm and threw her against a brick wall. She slumped the the ground with a broken hand and wrist and the fight dissipated quickly. My friend was punished severely while the aggressors were not even rounded up for questioning.

 

[ExSoldier]

My Aikido sensei once said that when the group is larger than three then the advantage is yours since they really can't attack "enmasse" without getting tangled up with each other. He proved his point by whispering a little hint in my ear and then ordering the seven black belt senior students to surround little old me with my white belt. They attacked on command all at once.

As they closed in I leaped into their collapsing circle from the center. They ran into each other and for a moment I took Sensei's hint and I got to whup up on a couple of them before they gathered themselves and came after me. That was (thankfully) stopped by Sensei.

He always said that when attacked by a pack, pick the biggest and meanest of the mutts and DESTROY him fast. If you break something, even a finger, grab hold of the broken bone and .... WIGGLE IT. Just GRIND the jagged edges of the bone together and hear the screams as delicate nerves are shredded. Whatever bone you break .... be it pinky finger or thigh bone: Don't forget to wiggle that sucker first. Another valid technique is to rip an ear from one and show it to the rest. The ears are attached by simple cartilledge (sp?) and skin.

Grab the top end of the ear and pinch hard to maintain grip and torque. Next, snap the wrist down like you were snapping an old mercury thermometer down below the "normal" mark. Do this hard and fast enough, and the sound will be similar to velcro coming apart. Show him the ear. It's got great shock power.

I'm a gentleman when it comes to the ladies or to kids until they demonstrate the capacity and willingness to harm me and mine. Then, I make no distinctions. ANYBODY who opens the door to violence has just got no legitimate "beef" if they get more violence than he or they bargained for. Either folks can be nice and friendly in my vicinity or I'll give 'em jungle all the way. Just my .02.

 

[captlid]

He should have not gotten involved in the first place. Being that he did, his next best course of action would have been to go to the end door open it and go into an other car. That is one of the trains that has open doors. Not all of them do.

I was once taking a train home at around 8:30 pm from the bronx. A well dressed man (slacks, buttoned down shirt, black leather briefcase) came onto the train and sat down across from me. Its about 3 feet of distance. About a minute later he unzipped his pants and started fondling his penus in front of me. I continued reading the subway map. The guy had a look of a hungry animal looking for a snack while he did this. I put my right hand in my coat pocket and held a blade. Guy kept looking at me like I am a meal. I purposely avoided eye contact (mainly cause I was not sure what his reaction would be to me rolling my eyes at him, nor did I want to find out.) He got off three stops later to go into another car.

 

[captlid]

Another situation

I was in a train going home from school and two young boys out of the blue asked me, "What are you staring at me for bitch?" (I have a lazy eye and sometimes it looks like I am looking at a person and I am not.) I apologized to them and said I was staring at the advertisement behind them. Quickly got up, stood next to the door and got off at the next stop. They refused to back down even after I apologized. I got off at the next stop.

The last week I was on a train and two times in that span there was a group of four teenage girls screaming their heads off talking smack about how they will kick someone's butt. They were talking REALLY LOUD. Not one passenger in that car said a word to them, and for good reason. It would look real bad if an adult told them to shut up, they jump him and then if he beats the snot out of them he gets in trouble. Or worse they pull blades out and stab him to bits and peices.

 

[jabotinsky]

Everything's wrong with the tape; he's either the perp or an accomplice in the hoax.

I love all the macho talk here of hard glances and taking out the toughest one first...anybody with street sense knows you keep moving and don't get caught up in that sheist.

 

[CWL]

Three things he could have done to prevent all of this:

1. Don't start anything by 'butting-in' and purposely sliding into a couple of strangers on the subway.
2. Don't engage strangers in verbal discussions/arguements, especially by starting it.
3. Get up and walk to a new train section.

At the beginning of the vid, you could tell from his face and attitude that he felt very sure of himself. He felt that he was in total control and didn't think he had anything to fear from 'girls'. As things got worse, his ego preventd him from getting-up and walking away.

 

[ilcylic]

I have to admit, when I heard about this, I was expecting something a lot harsher.

First step, as mentioned, don't talk to people you don't know for anything not direct and impersonal. "Do you know what time it is?"

Once he'd messed that up, and the confrontation grew, he should have apologized and backed away to the doors. Remaining seated put him at a tactical disadvantage.

Failing that, once he'd been attacked, he should have forced his way up and backed away quickly, yelling "LEAVE ME ALONE!"

If that didn't work, and the situation demonstrated itself as being more dangerous, then, yeah, it's time to fight back. Hurt one, badly, and quickly. Then see if you can make an exit. If there's nowhere to run... Your options are fight or die. No bravado, just how it is. The time for "de-escalation" is way before the fight begins, not in the middle.