Vintage .30-30 (WCF) Loads ...

[M100C]

All,
I have a few vintage Winchester 1894s. I have searched on a question, but cannot find anything conclusive. I have also offered a solution.

Looking at the older guns (I've some from 1896 through 1931), when you look at the period ammo, it was mostly hard cast lead. For example, two guns I like to shoot are an 1896 rifle and a 1912 SRC. At least the former was not designed to shoot jacketed bullets. So, I have thought jacketed bullets would be tougher on the bore than lead. Anyone have thoughts on this?

But, how about a copper plated bullet? I have guessed the bore sees a copper plated bullet much more like lead than a jacketed bullet.

I picked up some Berry's 150g FP bullets; they are very nice. I loaded them atop 32g of Win 748 with a Win LR primer. I have not chronographed, but the bullets are rated for 1950 fps, and they were grouping very well at 50 and 100 yds.

Would like your thoughts on jacketed versus plated bullets for use in older steel barrels.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[rcmodel]

Beginning in August 1895, all 1894 Winchesters were made using nickel steel barrels suitable for use with the factory smokeless powder & jacketed bullet loads.

My personal feeling is, copper plated bullets are just as high friction as jacketed bullets.

Copper isn't as slick as cast lead & grease lubed.

If you feel better, shoot cast bullets.
But be aware the 30-30 was never loaded with them from the time it was introduced in 1895, until now.

rc

 

[Malamute]

RC summed it up pretty well.

If the action is OK, the barrels should be fine with any factory level jacketed load. The 38-55 and 32-40 weren't made with the tougher barrel steel the first few years, but were brought up to date right after the turn of the century I believe.

There were some 30 WCF "short range" type loads factory made with lead bullets, but the full power loads have always been jacketed.

A note, I believe all the older factory lead bullets weren't hard, they were soft lead and swaged to shape.

Theres a guy that frequents the castboolit forum, I believe his handle is W30WCF. He has all sorts of arcane information about old cartridges and loads.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?264206-Original-Bullet-for-30-30


Interesting piece on the history of the 30 WCF, http://leverguns.com/articles/3030history.htm

 

[M100C]

rcmodel and Malamute,
Thanks for the clarification. Awhile back when I got the 1896, I looked for original load information, and got a catalog page image similar to this:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector Cartridges/WinSR1896Cat.jpg

Indeed, it is for the short range loads with lead bullets. Thanks for clarifying that all the full power loads were "metal patched" (jacketed).

As the bullet engraves the rifling, I guess my thinking is that the rifling will engrave and deform the copper plating easier than a jacket, creating a little less friction. To boot, the bullets are pretty cost effective ($0.155 ea), can be pushed almost to original velocity (1950 fps).

Thanks again for the advice,

Chris

 

[Malamute]

I edited about when you posted. Theres a link to the castboolits forum about the original bullet used, and the discussion evolved into other loads.

Plated may in fact be a little gentler on the bore, but unless yhou were going to shoot many thousands of rounds, it probably wont matter that much. Good cast loads will still run pretty well, and most using them report good results hunting with them. Casting can be a fun hobby in itself. Looking around the castboolits forum, I'm always surprised at all the experience represented there, and all the interesting things people come up with to do with different moulds and loads. I have a 77 gr .310 bullet mould intended for 32 auto that will also make a good very light load for 30-30. Its listed in old Ideal manuals for just that purpose, as is the .310" round ball.

The round ball loads I use make about as much noise as a standard velocity 22. Great for grouse, bunnies up close, and marauding bull mice poaching bird seed in the yard.

Your picture you posted was also in the thread I linked to at castboolits. Lots of fun old stuff turns up when looking into the old cartridges.

 

[Jim K]

High power (.30-30, .32 Special, .30-40, .30-'03, .30-'06) factory rifle bullets (including GI bullets) in those days were not lead, but cupro-nickel jacketed. Lead would strip at the velocities attained by the smokeless powder cartridges then coming out. The problem with cupro-nickel was that it left clumps of nickel in the barrel, even at what we would now consider moderate velocities, and that eventually ruined the accuracy. Modern jackets are made from a copper alloy called gilding metal, which also leaves a deposit, but one so slight that it is of little significance.

FWIW, the original Hoppe's No, 9 formula was made to attack and dissolve those nickel deposits, which was the reason for its heavy concentration of ammonia.

Jim