Violate the NFA and not go to jail. How?

[StopTheGrays]

Be a LEO.

LEO possesses a converted AK47, no jail, on paid leave.

Perrysburg police officer facing firearms charge.


A Perrysburg police officer was charged yesterday with illegal possession of a fully automatic firearm, authorities said.

Brett Stoner is accused of owning an AK-47 automatic rifle that was converted from a semi-automatic weapon, Perrysburg police Chief Richard Gilts said. The weapon was not properly registered.

The Perrysburg Police Division fired Mr. Stoner yesterday. He started working for the division in October and was classified as a probationary employee.

Authorities discovered Tuesday that Mr. Stoner was in possession of the automatic rifle, Chief Gilts said. The police department put him on administrative leave with pay pending completion of an investigation.

Mr. Stoner is scheduled to appear Monday in Perrysburg Municipal Court. He is free on his own recognizance until the court hearing.

A college student is facing felony charges and is sitting in jail because he had two rifles in his dorm room. This doofus violates the NFA for possessing a AK-47 (my guess is a semi-auto clone) that was converted (by him?) and is free on his own recognizance and on paid leave. ***?

 

[WT]

Let's see - the accused has not been convicted of any crime. He was non-violent so I can't see what good it would do to hold him in jail until the local prosecutor decides what to do. He doesn't seem to be a threat to society. I doubt he is a flight risk.

Okay, the guy probably screwed up some administrative paperwork. Now he lost his job. I think that's pretty severe punishment.

 

[30 cal slob]

There was a case a few years back in Alaska (I can't find the story) where a guy was charged by the feds for unlawful possession of an unregistered full-auto.

A jury of his peers found him not guilty. This gesture was a to the feds. One of the jurors reportedly said something like "the guy had the equivalent of a power tool. What's the big deal?"

Some stories have happy endings.

 

[Augustwest]

The irony of someone named Stoner getting busted for an AK isn't lost on me here...

 

[cordex]

No reason to assume that because he's not in jail right now that he's never going to jail.

Hope he gets the same prison time I would have if I had done the crime.

Okay, the guy probably screwed up some administrative paperwork. Now he lost his job. I think that's pretty severe punishment.

"Administrative paperwork"?
The guy had a full-auto AK. The department didn't purchase it (or even know about it). Apparently he didn't have NFA papers to produce for it. It appears he was in possession of an unregistered machine gun.

WT, the crime this fellow is accused of is a felony. After reading your positions on felons (all felons - not just violent ones), I'm confused as to your "well, he lost his job, and that's bad enough punishment I guess," attitude. Why the change of heart?

 

[LiquidTension]

Let's not jump to conclusions until this case goes to court.

 

[Mark in California]

Equal Protection??????

Think the point being made was the former police officer was free on bond for having a unregistered machine gun, and the student was in jail for having two rifles. That they were not being treated anywhere near equally.

As long as there was not any violence, nether should be in jail until/unless convicted.

 

[444]

This is another attempt at a police bashing thread:

The two crimes have almost nothing in common, so why would they be treated equally ?
One is a federal crime. One is not. Even if they happened in the same town they would involve two entirely different law enforcement agencies and two different court systems (I think).

Even if this guy is convicted of possession of a full auto weapon, I seriously doubt he will go to jail no matter who he is.

 

[WT]

No change of heart. Accused of a felony is a whole lot different than being convicted of one. I'm not willing to hang the former officer without a trial.

He still has a tough row to hoe. How does he explain to future employers why he was fired from the police department?

We had a similar case in NJ. Officer obtained a full auto weapon from the widow of a WWII veteran. Case went to trial, officer got off, kept his job. Feds didn't get involved. I'm okay with that since he wasn't convicted of a felony.

 

[TheFederalistWeasel]

OMIGOD!!! He’s a cop… we must execute him for his transgressions because he is a cop!!!

Higher standards, I tell you, higher standard!!!




In most all states, if you are fired from any sworn LEO position, not only do your lose your job, but your state POST certification is immediately revoked, until you can have a hearing and have it reinstated, which in GA can take up to 5 years, POST does not get in any hurry and the reinstatement rate is not very good, something like 40% IIRC.

Plus any state funded retirement you may have accumulated regardless if it’s state paid or a program you paid into, like POAB it’s gone forever too!

 

[Logistics]

>>>We had a similar case in NJ. Officer obtained up a full auto weapon from the widow of a WWII veteran. Case went to trial, officer got off, kept his job. Feds didn't get involved. I'm okay with that since he wasn't convicted of a felony.<<<

I believe you but it's a federal violation. How did the feds not get involved? Very odd. If you have a link or anything I'd love a good read.

 

[El Tejon]

How? Because he's not charged with violation of the NFA. It's state law, hence the court date in muni court.

444, no, they are both state crimes. Story doesn't say whether the USA will pursue the cop. As much as the feds protect cops, I would say federal prosecution is unlikely but do not know the USA in that district.

Log, USAs do not get involved in every federal (potential) crime. I used to have to beg them to take felons with guns cases. They took 1 in 5 at most.

IME, cop probably had an attorney right away and the tilecrawler prevented a warrant from being issued or at least held in abeyance until the initial hearing.

 

[2nd Amendment]

Crime? Another instance of people saying such a thing and yet I just can't seem to see it...

Form the Flame Line to the left, please.

 

[WT]

Actually, there were 2 state cases in NJ.

The one I mentioned took place in Somerset County, NJ involving a Far Hills police sergeant, Kenneth Moose. Don't have an actual citation. Anyway, Judge Edward Coleman ruled that the state statutes dealing with ownership of machineguns did not apply to police officers (May 2003).

Another case I remember involved a Paterson NJ police lieutenant. Owned a full automatic without papers. He too got off.

The federal prosecutors in NJ have lots more important things on their slate - terrorism, murders, drugs, etc.


Edit: Here is the NJ exemption to the mg laws.

2C:39-6. Exemptions
A regularly employed member, including a detective, of the police department of any county or municipality, or of any State, interstate, municipal or county park police force or boulevard police force, at all times while in the State of New Jersey.

The key phrase is 'at all times.'


Edit: I see that the Clemson student was released on $1,000 bond so I conclude he is not sitting in jail.

 

[Risasi]

As much as I don't like a caste system in society, we don't have that here. And I don't think applies well to the student in jail.

It's state not fed, (thanks for pointing out, wouldn't have noticed). But even if it was federal court I would hope he would get off.

Plus there are tons of extenuating circumstances in this that we don't know about; 1. It might have been an accident. Hey I botched a trigger job on a CETME once, tweaked the sear to the point I thought I might have a problem. Never fired it, I never knew if it would have gone F/A and wasn't about to find out. I chopped up and tossed the old sear into the trash, bought a new pack.

2. Someone else may have done it without his knowledge. I could easily see where he handed it to the local PD gunney nut to "clean and tweak", and he got a little too ambitious. Wouldn't that be a shock to walk into the police range and pop a shot, but instead it empties a whole clip all over the place. Talk about embarrassing, especially when all the guys start milling aruond to "see what you got". Then imagine your superior finds out and blow his top. Heck, maybe they are just doing this to shame him a bit.

3. Or maybe he is just a rebel and did it. Law be damned.

4. Or he thinks he's above the law, because he is a cop. It happens sometimes.

5. Or he bumpfired it, who knows.

Yeah, innocent until proven guilty. Frankly I would think most of you guys would be cheering him on. Sheesh. Guess we'll see in court.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I've never seen anything in the Second Amendment that gives the federal government authority to prohibit any type of firearm.

 

[gezzer]

I've never seen anything in the Second Amendment that gives the federal government authority to prohibit any type of firearm.

Best line in thread.

 

[beerslurpy]

I'm confused. Are you guys saying that I can violate the NFA and I wont get punished? I was under the impression that the ATF loved to make examples out of people.

Taking a non-transferrable machine gun to the range seemed like a suicidal thing to do. Am I misinformed?

 

[publius]

I've never seen anything in the Second Amendment that gives the federal government authority to prohibit any type of firearm.

That's because you're looking in the wrong place! The authority used to come from the Congress' power to tax, but these days, it comes from the interstate commerce clause of Article 1, Section 8. Except in the 9th Circuit. Maybe.

 

[insidious_calm]

Cop bashing? Really?

WT, 444, Weasel,


In order to please Art's Grammaw and my blood pressure I'll keep this very limited in scope and this will be my only post to this thread as I'm sure Art will be along shortly to lock it, and I've come to realize that arguing back and forth on this issue accomplishes nothing.

First of all, I have no problem with cops owning FA's. As long as normal citizens can do it too. That way there is no double standard. After all, cops are just normal people who live, breath, and make mistakes just like everyone else, no better or worse than anyone else. Right?

Please take the time took look at your posts in this thread and then compare them to other posts you've made in other threads. I have seen time and again your posts to the effect of "don't do the crime if you can't do the time" or "blankity blank broke the law and deserved what he got" whenever someone dares to defend someone in a similar or same situation. The bottom line is a non-leo would likely still be in jail trying to raise bail if bail was set at all in todays anti-gun hysterical courtrooms.

Higher standards? More like DOUBLE STANDARD. As we start down the same road of circle the wagons, us vs. them, etc. please take the time to reflect on your posts in similar situations regarding civilians and realize that attitudes like yours are the problem. It's downright lack of accountability, and until you change your attitude you will continue to be part of the problem. I have nothing against cops and hold no personal enmity toward any of you. As such I hope you take the time to reflect on your previous posts as I asked and ask yourself; if in this situation you had no knowledge of the fact he was a cop would you post differently?


Sincere best regards,


I.C.

 

[dustind]

I hope the officer wins, regardless of the facts of the case. Within reason at least.

 

[publius]

In most all states, if you are fired from any sworn LEO position, not only do your lose your job, but your state POST certification is immediately revoked, until you can have a hearing and have it reinstated, which in GA can take up to 5 years, POST does not get in any hurry and the reinstatement rate is not very good, something like 40% IIRC.

Plus any state funded retirement you may have accumulated regardless if it’s state paid or a program you paid into, like POAB it’s gone forever too!

And other felons also lose their jobs when they go to jail, so yeah, that's pretty much the same thing. Except the jail part.

 

[TheFederalistWeasel]

insidious_calm

It's called sarcasm... I'm sorry it flew,,,, nevermind...

 

[WT]

My message has been simple and consistent.

“Felons should not be allowed to possess firearms.â€

I don’t believe the restrictive penalty is excessive, disproportionate or arbitrary.

It takes a lot of work and effort to become a felon.

If on a jury I would not punish a ‘civilian’ or police officer who merely possessed a full automatic weapon. It is too trivial to warrant the condemnation of conviction.

The criminal code allows for differentiation between serious, minor and trivial offenses as well as individualized treatment of the accused.

 

[kirkcdl]

Well,I don't know if anyone else read about it,but a few years ago ATF got some guy in Utah or Idaho or someplace like that because he had built his own FA rifle.They had to return it and charges were dropped due to several reasons.One,he also designed it.Two,he built all his parts from raw metal.Three,he had no intent to sell it or transfer ownership.Apparently,as long as you're building from scratch a Full Auto gun FOR YOUR OWN USE,it's perfectly legal.Sorry for the off topic interruption,anyone have a link or other info??