Violent Neighbor - No Police Protection - What do I do?

[vtoddball]

And if you have to shoot the SOB, you're gonna pay for about a half-year's tuition for some lawyer's kid to go to a good college.

If you HAVE to shoot the SOB, you'll be happy you're still alive to pay that lawyer. Not a valid argument.

 

[Monkeybear]

I would not move. The world is full of A-Holes, there's no getting away from them completely.

Exactly I don't get this line of thinking at all.
What happens if the next place has another bully/jerk/nut/crazy?
What about the next?
What about the next?

There is a world a difference between your average A-hole and a truly dangerous person. If you believe you and/or your loved one's life is on the line then you are not dealing with your average A-hole.

Either this guy isn't a genuine threat or he is. If he is I personally would, and I would suggest others, move rather than find yourself in a "kill or be killed" situation.

To the OP, if you think this guy is going to kill, rape or maim you and/or your wife then I suggest you move before you and/or your wife end up killled, raped or maimed. If your greatest fear is simple verbal harassment and intimidation then I suggest avoiding OC spray and shotguns while dealing with this situation in favor or letters, phone calls and personal visits to the management office and local police department.

 

[Brass Rain]

For home defense, nothing says "F' off" quite like a stainless Magnum of some sort. A 4" or 6" GP-100 in .357 might work. I would suggest a 1911 frame .45, but you are on a budget, right? A used GP-100 could be found for about $400 or less where a 1911 frame would be more than $700 new, 5-600 used.

Or you could just get a 12-gauge. The throttling of the foregrip alone will convince him nine times out of ten.

Or yeah, just move.

 

[GatorDude]

Before you move check out http://apartmentratings.com

Also, maybe you can transfer your lease to another apartment on the opposite end of your complex or to another community managed by your apartment company.

 

[Firethorn]

2. Get a permit to carry concealed. A 9mm single stack is preferrable. Carry it.

Depends on his assets. At least in my area a little shopping will find a 'hunting' style shotgun in decent shape for around $100. Another $10-20 will get you enough buckshot to both keep a defensive loading and verify functionality/aim/spread.

Compared to $300+ for just about any functional handgun in a self defense caliber, it's cheap.

Oh, and I still say, like the others: Document and complain to the cops/landlord/rental company.

And isn't MJ not associated with violence? Isn't that more the realm of meth, cocaine, PCP, and such?

Oh yeah - I'm not going to say that moving is necessarily the choice, I'm one of the ones that doesn't believe in backing down from evil, but you do have to sometimes pick your battles. It's your choice.

 

[NG VI]

Depends on his assets. At least in my area a little shopping will find a 'hunting' style shotgun in decent shape for around $100. Another $10-20 will get you enough buckshot to both keep a defensive loading and verify functionality/aim/spread.

Compared to $300+ for just about any functional handgun in a self defense caliber, it's cheap.

Oh, and I still say, like the others: Document and complain to the cops/landlord/rental company.

And isn't MJ not associated with violence? Isn't that more the realm of meth, cocaine, PCP, and such?

All of the above sound like a direct hit to me.

Also, if he wants to get plenty of high-quality shotshells for his money, I don't think ammunition to go can be beat. They have 25 round boxes of things like Ranger 00 for $16. Way better than $4/5 round boxes of Remington Express 00.

 

[maestro pistolero]

maestro pistolero: that would be illegal in my state, don't know about PA. Recording voice without consent here is illegal.

What presumption of privacy could he possibly have while shouting threats at you through your front door?

If that's true, which I doubt, then Ok, call 911 while he's doing it and let them record it through your phone, no permission needed.

 

[deaconkharma]

there have been some good calm answers here

1st: Definitely stop interacting at all with him that means stomping etc. my first reaction would be to do that too but just don't. Like other's said just call the cops and they'll catch him like that. Also call manamgement after the police. I'm sure they'll hear it over the phone and if not call from where it's the loudest. It'll help to make your point to both police and management.

2nd: I cannot honestly bring myself to dissuade you from getting a firearm, even though you may or may not have misconceptions about it's use. Please consider this and your own self control / temper management and weigh the decision carefully. The only time a gun should be presented is when you are about to fire it, in my humble opinion. Brandishing as a show of "don't mess with me" is not a proper use. ----------Others may flame me for this, but if you see my gun you're going to get it's contents. that simple. -------------

3rd: "QUIET ENJOYMENT", usually a clause in landlord- tenant ageements. If they know you'll seek legal action (even if you have a friend lawyer or law student or whatever draw a letter up) the landlord is more likely to avoid a lawsuit than to listen to somone "Whine" (landlord opinion on complaints) about noise. They'll likely let you break the lease or move to another spot. Start talking about compensation for movers etc and you'll apeal to their "financial side" and they'll want to accomodate before they lose money.

Last note: considering you've identified yourself as a gun owner, will he escalate force now and get his own? or does he have one, and if so will he try to bring it to your next rendevous? Will he try to ambush you or your family now that he feels "slighted" by you? (yes I know it's silly, and you didn't, but his anger suggests he feels "punked" by you) All unrational but these are things I was thinking of when I read this. To be honest, getting away is the best option and the rest (gun etc) is up to you but I'd be apt to move far and ASAP rather than worry all the time about these things I just mentioned. He sounds crazy and short of having to present and fire, I'd be long gone. As someone else said, Darwin will take care of this guy soon enough, get out of the way and let him do himself in by messing with the wrong person.

 

[Scattergun Bob]

VTODDBALL & Rainbow Bob

Rainbow Bob - the reason so many have suggested that move is a valid option is that, perhaps it is the correct one for this occasion. NOT rocket science is it?

Vtoddball - It sure is easy to be a "stand your ground advocate" when it is not your butt or your loved ones life at stake. Will you be there to extract this person when your advise places him in harms way, OF COURSE you will not. More than likely you would not EVEN if you had the chance, most people shy from intervening in third party affairs.

I did not JUST advocate moving, I advocated deescalating the situation however possible and RIGHT NOW, so since you do not see any logic in this for our cultures social justice, lets look at what the o/p really said.

The o/p said "What kind of handgun is not HUGE but not tiny, something that says "I'm not ****ing around." when it's being pointed at someone."

VTODDBALL & Rainbow Bob- How will buying a gun and standing your ground solve the true dispute evident, loud noise and pot smoke? As I originally stated HOLD the LANDOWNER ACCOUNTABLE, FILE SUITE!

So, because of mutual hate and discontent lets escalate the force continuum from mear words and threats, directly to deadly force, Boy fellas that's a well thought out plan. Lets suggest to the o/p to buy a gun and stand his ground, face jeopardy and perhaps face the catastrophic event of killing over a noise dispute!!!!! because YOU think Americans are weak willed. *******ism is by degrees, If the landlord will not intervene, then move to a different location, perhaps the next ******* will be more tolerable.

You said "Just out of curiosity, what if it was a $200,000 home you owned with an obnoxious neighbor? Should you still move? $100,000? $50,000? What's the "just move" threshold? "

My very point in making the "move" argument is that it is not his ground, it is joint ground and the easiest out is to move. Far better than the worst case of using deadly force, because some other ******* suggested you stay.

You said "I'm not saying to be confrontational, but slinking away to avoid the problem isn't a solution. That attitude is what made it possible for anti-gunners to get so many laws passed hampering gun ownership. Instead of standing up for what was right, gun owners simply left CA, NY, MA, etc., leaving their stranded fellow shooters to fend for themselves."

Sounds to me like you need a soap box, that is OK, but why in the hell should this person pay the bill for your MOUTH!

Neither one of us know the person asking for help, MY take is that he really does not wish to use deadly force, that is why I suggest the other options.

I have carried a gun every day for 26+ years and I have a code of conduct for this life, what you suggest violates 2 of the rules I live by.

3. If I can move away safely - THEN RUN

If I force a confrontation I risk the possibility of myself or a family member being killed, criminal liability, arrest. I will flee if I can, fight only as a last resort.

The BEST gunfight that ever was, was the one that never happened!

5. Don't let my emotions get the best of me.

THIS IS A PROBLEM FOR YOU. If, despite my efforts, I do get into some kind of heated dispute with another while I am armed, never mention, imply, or exhibit my pistol to intimidate.

I spent a fair amount of time in mediation of multi-family disputes, GUNS and THREATS never work, if I had 10$ for every time I suggested folks find "another way" I would have a better retirement!


Good luck on giving your advise, I hope it does not come back to haunt you.

 

[bogie]

I'm wondering if some folks either actually -are- gun owners, or if they should be allowed to possess them.

Aggression and boomsticks does not mix with everyday life. That means you don't want to do things which will escalate into a deadly confrontation - which you will come out ahead in - which will cost you a bundle of time and money both legally and socially.

 

[poor_richard]

First let me say welcome to THR.

I've got a long write up for this, but first, I'll be brief. Because you have and continue to escalate the situation, you put yourself and your wife in a bad position. You've painted yourself with the label of, "that guy who was always having trouble with his neighbor".


I'm sure your neighbor is a problem, but you need to understand that you fueled the fire.

The IDEAL course of action is for you to move, and learn to establish boundaries. You normally shouldn't have to move, but since you have little or no concept of boundaries, you've created a situation in which standing your ground could be somewhat dicey.

That's the short version, the long version will follow.

 

[poor_richard]

First let me say welcome to THR.

I’ve read much of this thread, but after a while it got a little redundant. There’s the “move” crowd, there’s the “stand your ground” crowd, and there’s the “document everything” crowd. Unfortunately, most of the posters here seem to be ignoring the real problem, and it isn’t your jock neighbor, it’s you. I’m not trying to berate you here, but actually help, so please don’t get offended, and just hear me out.


I’m going to post some quotes from your posts, and I hope you see a pattern here, because I certainly do. That pattern is, “You have little or no concept of boundaries, and therefore lack such boundaries". I‘ll explain as I go for purpose of demonstration.

…We didn't mind the noise at first but the pot smoke seeping into our apartment was too much.

…

You later follow this with

..I usually wouldn't care about pot smoke, I don't care what people do, normally. But in this rare case if I smell it I'll... be a "lamer"... and call the cops just to get him out

If the pot smoke and music didn’t bother you, you wouldn’t be in this mess. Truth is, they did bother you (and righteously so), but you just didn’t want to do anything about it. That could be a result of fear, laziness, apathy, etc… or something. Irregardless, you failed to set up a boundary for something like this, so you decided to initially pass it off as “acceptable”, all the while hopping it would subside.

I pounded on the floor. (Apartment talk for "keep it down")

I know, you may think this is enforcing a boundary, but it isn’t. It’s passive/aggressive behavior. While this is commonly accepted “apartment talk”, it is only effective if the neighbors are respectable. You had no such impression of your neighbor, so it wasn’t “Apartment talk”, but was instead nothing more than “lashing out”. Your neighbor is new, so you had no indication of how he would react. Maybe you were just a little naive here (doubtful since you seem to seek escalation), but a wiser course of action would have been an anonymous complaint to the PD dispatcher. Our PD has a non-emergency number (you shouldn’t be calling 911 at this point anyway) for which they may ask your info, but you aren’t required to give it. New neighbors who are respectful don’t do such things, but I’m guessing you probably knew that already.

He cranked it up louder. I went down there to ask what the hell was his problem.

Here’s a lesson about boundaries: it means you don’t get to control the situation. That’s why many people have problems like this. They think they need to “take charge” or control situations, when in reality, the only thing they can control is themselves (sometimes not doing a very good job of it).

You should have called the PD instead of even pounding on the floor, but that would have meant that you did nothing else, which threatens your control. The boundary is,

“he does his thing, and I do mine. If his thing intrudes on mine, then call the PD and let them deal with him, as I don’t care to deal with the aggravation.”​

Instead, you pounded on the floor in an effort to resolve matters yourself (letting him know you shouldn’t be messed with), and then when it only escalated things, you went down to give him a piece of your mind.

…I... lied... to him and told him I had a gun pointed at the door, to back away and the cops have been called.

Still no mention of calling the PD and letting the authorities take care of it. Yet, you threaten him with a firearm and PD (another effort to control his actions). Congratulations, you’ve now not only further escalated the situation, but also threatened him with a firearm, which tells him that there may be one in your apartment when your not there.

… I will be buying a gun to protect ourselves while living here.


What kind of handgun is not HUGE but not tiny, something that says "I'm not ****ing around." when it's being pointed at someone. A gun that is... cheaper.. not so large it's a burden to carry/hold up but not something so small that it's more "cute" than "oh ****!", inducing. If you get my meaning….

Sounds like your "meaning" is to intimidate (guess you haven’t yet figured out that’s not working) which is why you shouldn’t get a gun. A gun is lethal force, not a magic talisman. A boundary would be, “the gun is for defense of life should anyone try to harm us”, not “ something that says “I’m not ****ing””. Before you get a gun, you need to take the NRA course on personal protection in the home, and read the book. I honestly don’t think you are prepared to take another mans life. And, that is what the purpose of getting that gun is. It’s lethal force, and that means someone will die. If you can’t look at it that way, then you shouldn’t get the gun. The idea of scaring someone with it is just another attempt to control another person’s behavior, and that isn‘t a boundary.

…I also plan on printing up notices to tape on everyone's door giving them a quick overview about the cops, the drugs and the violence. That may help the management do something...

Still trying to get “others” to do something, instead of deciding what you will do and following that course of action. Did you think that these notices won’t be seen by him? Your still escalating the situation (not to mention bringing other witnesses to the fact that you have a problem with someone), which will only work to your detriment in court.

Cheap and scary. I'll probably just stare at it and not get it... he did try to get in that one time though... hard choice. I'd rather not have a gun around.

The reason you don’t want the gun around is because you avoid boundaries, and a gun can be a huge boundary. With a gun in the house, you must set a boundary. If it’s needed for protection, you use it, decisively, and you don’t stop using it until the threat stops. That’s a pretty severe boundary, and your reluctance is understandable. With the gun and no boundary, it could easily be used against you and your wife, which is why your hesitant.

I didn't know what to do so I paused a few sec while he continued to try to get in then told him I had a gun and that we are calling the cops. You know the rest. Okay, claiming the gun was probably not the best, but when a 6'7" mega muscle dude is flipping out and trying to get into your house.... ya.

Sorry, but the only reason you think your implication translates, is because you don’t establish boundaries. You seem to think your response was “reasonable give the circumstance”. What you don’t seem to understand is that most people here would not respond in such a manner. If someone (anyone) is trying to break into my house with threats of bodily harm or death, I AM ARMED, AND I AM CALLING THE POLICE. That’s a boundary. There will be no empty threats or warnings from me (other than “stop”, or maybe “stop or I will shoot”, but not if I am not prepared to shoot, and being unarmed, you weren’t). Empty threats aren’t boundaries.

Nice! I will try the "legal scare tactics". I'm usually not one for lawyer stuff... I keep to myself and don't want trouble.

You’ve been trying “scare tactics” all along, and that’s how you've gotten into this mess. Scare tactics are not boundaries, they are what people use to dictate or control other people’s behavior. This will also escalate the situation, although it might be viewed as a reasoned response.


I understand that your neighbor is a problem. I understand that his behavior is unacceptable. Guess what, “SO DOES HE”.

Here’s a hot news flash:
He knew/knows his music was too loud, he knew/knows he shouldn’t be smoking pot, and he most certainly knew/knows that his behavior is totally in the wrong. He did these things to intimidate you, and when you didn’t immediately call the police and LL, you sent the message that his methods of intimidation were/are working.

Your boundaries should have been: as soon as you hear loud disturbances (music, partying/voices, any other, …etc), you should have called LE/LL. As soon as he threatened you, you should have called LE/LL. You should have never talked to him (this in effect sends the message that your open to negotiation). All negative reinforcement should have come from the proper authorities, not you.

Your boundaries have been/are: he can do what he wants , hoping he doesn’t breach your door and enter your home. This needs to change, now.

You should maintain a policy of “no contact” with him. NONE. That means no pounding on the floor (that’s for neighbors who will abide by such things. He isn’t one). Because of your failure to do this (I know, you wanted to solve it without things getting out of hand, but his version of solving it is you putting up with his nonsense), you will now be the target for any complaints lodged by you, or any other tenants. Stop working to do anything other than file complaints with the LE and LL. Don’t be the one about who the fellow tenants say, “Yeah, he was always complaining about that jock fellow’s loud music, I can’t believe he shot him.” Start taking measures to protect yourself legally, right now. That means no contact, and no complaining to the neighbors (Don’t be surprised to discover that they lied about complaining. My experience is that while many will talk, few will stand up). Your only correspondence/communication on this matter should be with the police, and the landlord. He should neither see, nor hear you, ever. If he sees and hears so little of you that he thinks you moved out, then your on the right track.

Also, don’t ever again mention a gun to him or anyone. You’ve now labeled yourself as the guy looking for an excuse to shoot his neighbor because you couldn’t resolve the issue by other means. I know that probably isn’t true, but that truth won’t matter once your in the courtroom defending yourself from a manslaughter rap.

Another thing you need to do is develop positive relationships with your other neighbors. This will provide good character references, and means you don’t talk about him, to them. Your letting this situation control you, because you are trying to control it. By setting up the proper boundaries, you will relieve yourself of these concerns, and be more confident on how to handle any situation that should arise.

Game it out. What will you do if you hear his music today? How long will you wait before calling it in (in my town, this can be done anonymously if the regular dispatch line is used instead of the 911 line, which you should only use in an emergency anyway)? What will you do if he confronts you about it (that would be to call the police again)? Set up your boundaries (and course of action) now. That way, when these things happen, you’ll be less stressed about them.


Understand this one last thing. If you now (after all that escalation) establish and enforce such boundaries, HE’LL BLAME YOU (he‘s going to blame you regardless). If he’s dangerous, then that means that you and your wife are in danger. That means that even (after going the authorities route) if you move, he may still see you or your wife around town. That’s why you should just move. You’ve harmed (not destroyed) any case you may have in court (as in you or your wife had to shoot him) by your continued escalation. You don’t seem prepared to deal with the use of lethal force, and it’s probably doubtful your wife is either. If he is dangerous, that means that you and your wife need to be prepared to defend yourselves wherever you are, not just in the home. You aren’t even close to that point yet, and even if you got up to speed fast, your still don’t want that kind of trouble since it a huge mess that you helped create. The easiest way out is to move.

 

[anarchris]

I was held up with a tiny .22 once, I found it very intimidating.
Lying about having a gun pointed at him means you've gotten all your gun info from movies and TV.

PA is a great gun friendly state.
I urge you to take a self defense course and urge you to become familiar with deadly force laws in your area.

You handled the situation poorly but I'm sure you can learn.

I learned a great deal in the strategy and tactics forum by just reading!

 

[FCFC]

... I have a code of conduct for this life, what you suggest violates 2 of the rules I live by.

3. If I can move away safely - THEN RUN

If I force a confrontation I risk the possibility of myself or a family member being killed, criminal liability, arrest. I will flee if I can, fight only as a last resort.

The BEST gunfight that ever was, was the one that never happened!

5. Don't let my emotions get the best of me.

THIS IS A PROBLEM FOR YOU. If, despite my efforts, I do get into some kind of heated dispute with another while I am armed, never mention, imply, or exhibit my pistol to intimidate.

I spent a fair amount of time in mediation of multi-family disputes, GUNS and THREATS never work, if I had 10$ for every time I suggested folks find "another way" I would have a better retirement!

+ 1.0

Excellent post, Scattergun Bob. Some reasonable ideas about reasonableness... Thank you.

I wonder if OP is coming back to post? I wonder if it was a real OP?

 

[vtoddball]

Wow Scattergun. Where to begin.

VTODDBALL & Rainbow Bob- How will buying a gun and standing your ground solve the true dispute evident, loud noise and pot smoke? As I originally stated HOLD the LANDOWNER ACCOUNTABLE, FILE SUITE!

At what point did I indicate he shouldn't do those things. I simply stated that moving shouldn't be solution number one as proposed by so many. In fact, I said that I wasn't advising being confrontational. My argument leaves plenty of breathing room between moving and drawing a gun.

So, because of mutual hate and discontent lets escalate the force continuum from mear words and threats, directly to deadly force, Boy fellas that's a well thought out plan

I never said to escalate. Get your facts straight.

Lets suggest to the o/p to buy a gun and stand his ground, face jeopardy and perhaps face the catastrophic event of killing over a noise dispute!!!!! because YOU think Americans are weak willed. *******ism is by degrees,

I never said he should get a gun. In fact I DON'T think he should get a gun. I think that rare is the occasion where someone should by a firearm when they are angry or scared. It usually leads to trouble. But you keep imagining I said he should and I'll keep wondering how you type with your head placed in such a dark and damp location.

My very point in making the "move" argument is that it is not his ground, it is joint ground and the easiest out is to move. Far better than the worst case of using deadly force, because some other ******* suggested you stay.

Home is where you hang your hat. Simply because he is renting doesn't make his residence any less a home. And I think other posters with rental experience have made clear that moving from place to place ends up creating more problems for the renter in the long run. So it may be the easiest to suggest, but probably not the easiest to live with. As frustrated as the OP sounds, the odds are very good that nothing will come of this. As much as many of us on this forum like to talk about "tactical" situations and "what if" scenarios, the odds of them happening are very low. So it's certainly not unreasonable to suggest he weigh that likelihood against the issues that will be presented if he decides to move.

Also, I'll assume that seven letter word is something nice like "comrade." I mean, it wouldn't be very high road to call someone names simply because they disagreed with you would it? I expect better from a self proclaimed mediator.

Will you be there to extract this person when your advise places him in harms way, OF COURSE you will not.
....
then move to a different location, perhaps the next ******* will be more tolerable.

The operative word being "perhaps". If this was the third time he had moved because of bad neighbors would your advice be the same? I guess the question is, when he can't find a place to stay because of his rental history and he has no savings because he's moved from place to place, will YOU be there, helping him deal with the consequences of your advice? OF COURSE you will not.

Sounds to me like you need a soap box,

You're right. I forgot, only YOUR opinion is worth mentioning. Forgive me for speaking out of turn oh wise one.

that is OK, but why in the hell should this person pay the bill for your MOUTH!

WHat are you talking about?! A grown up asked other grown ups for advice. Now he gets to weigh all that advice and do what free men do. Make his own decisions based on his experiences and then live with them good or bad.

MY take is that he really does not wish to use deadly force

No one on this forum should WANT to use deadly force. The question is, could he use deadly force and would he be justified. Two questions I didn't comment on because without being there or knowing him, I'm not qualified to address them.

I have a code of conduct for this life, what you suggest violates 2 of the rules I live by.

3. If I can move away safely - THEN RUN

If I force a confrontation I risk the possibility of myself or a family member being killed, criminal liability, arrest. I will flee if I can, fight only as a last resort.

That can only be taken so far. Sure it's better to run than to shoot someone, get in a fight, etc., but you don't move every time a neighbor shouts at you. Have you EVER lived in a city?! If what happened to the OP demands someone move, no one in any metropolitan apartment would be in the same place for more than a few days.

5. Don't let my emotions get the best of me.
THIS IS A PROBLEM FOR YOU.

Wow. That's amazing Creskin. Three posts and you've already figured out that I'm a trigger happy hothead bent on convincing gun forum readers nationwide to run into their neighbor's apartments with guns blazing. That mediation work has given you quite the nose for picking us crazies out of a crowd. Here I was, thinking I had just suggested that moving wasn't the best option and gave a few reasons why. Turns out I was apparently communicating that he should buy an uzi and light up the neighbor.

At this point , I'd like to take a quick break and ask, do you seriously have a code of rules you live by? I mean, everyone has "guidelines", but you seriously just whipped out the 'ol #3 and #5 like you have a cheat sheet tucked away in your wallet. Does anyone else on here do that? Did I miss a class or something where the virtues and advantages of a self prescribed, written code of ethics was espoused? Just curious.

Good luck on giving your advise, I hope it does not come back to haunt you.

Well if I see a headline on Drudge stating "Man, Dog and Busload of Nuns Killed after Taking Advice From Gun Forum Crazy", I'll wipe the tears from my eyes long enough to write you an "I'm sorry to have disagreed with you" letter. Then I'll remember that I'm responsible for MY actions, the OP is responsible for HIS actions and go about my merry way.

Sheesh pal. I have no idea what I said or did to deserve the venom you spewed, but you can take it eslewhere. I'm sorry if I hurt your wittle feelings. Next time I'm be sure not to disagree with you so you don't have to invest so much time in an online tantrum.

 

[pbearperry]

Roses are red,violets are blue,get an attorney,and sue,sue,sue.

 

[Scattergun Bob]

vtoddball

My Five Rules for CONCEALED Carry


1. My concealed handgun is for protection of life only.

Draw it only in preparation to protect myself or my family from the willful and wanton life-threatening actions of another.


2. Know exactly when I can use my gun.
A predator must have or reasonably appear to have:

the ability to inflict serious bodily harm or death upon me. (He is armed)

the opportunity to inflict serious bodily harm. (distance, body type, position)

his intent indicates that he means to inflict serious bodily harm or death upon me. (mere words are not enough)

When all 3 of these element are in place simultaneously, THIS IS A THREAT STIMULUS!
The response to threat stimulus ; zero muzzle, flash sight picture, exercise trigger control, deliver a minimum response.

3. If I can move away safely - THEN RUN
If I force a confrontation I risk the possibility of myself or a family member being killed, criminal liability, arrest. I will flee if I can, fight only as a last resort.

The BEST gunfight that ever was, was the one that never happened!

4 Display my gun, go to jail.

I should expect to be arrested by the police at gunpoint, and be charged with a crime anytime I expose my concealed handgun to another citizen in public! I must continue to perfect a carry method that keeps my pistol reliably hidden from the general public view. Before I deliberately expose my pistol in public, I must ask myself "is this issue worth going to Jail".

5. Don't let my emotions get the best of me.

THIS IS A PROBLEM FOR YOU. If, despite my efforts, I do get into some kind of heated dispute with another while I am armed, never mention, imply, or exhibit my pistol to intimidate. (SEE EVAN'S STUFF, AND READ AGAIN & AGAIN)

These rules have been around for many years, Many take credit for them, I do not, however, I use them. Any comments?

The comment on #5 "this a problem for you" is about ME, I don't know you.

 

[Huddog]

"Let the police shoot him. That's what they get paid for." No, that's not what they get paid for. Having to take a life is an extremely painful and unnatural act. So let's not disrespect the police by being so flippant about one of the most tramatic events in an LEOs life.

 

[Travis McGee]

You need to MOVE. Period. A quiet trailer in the burbs or boonies beats a loud disfunctional apartment ANY day. I tell you that from experience both ways.

 

[poor_richard]

At what point did I indicate he shouldn't do those things. I simply stated that moving shouldn't be solution number one as proposed by so many. In fact, I said that I wasn't advising being confrontational. My argument leaves plenty of breathing room between moving and drawing a gun.

Your right. Moving shouldn’t be “solutions number one”, and that isn’t what people are proposing. He’s already tried other solutions (so it obviously isn't "solution number one"), and as a result has escalated the situation. Your suggestion that he “not be confrontational” is “too little, too late”. That cat is already out of the bag, and the confrontation is in full swing. Your argument may leave plenty of breathing room, but it doesn’t apply to this case. If he hadn’t escalated the situation, then moving wouldn’t be the first solution for him to seek. Unfortunately, that isn’t the case. Moving is his best option. That is, provided that this is actually a true story.

 

[CHEVELLE427]

ME I WOULD

Get a ball bat or a taser until you get a gun.
Next time when he comes to pound on your door, have someone answer it and step back, he burst in making threats do some pounding with that bat or stick him with the tazer. THEN call the law to come haul the crap off. MY .02

 

[bogie]

Sigh...

On one side, we have the old farts, many of whom have personally been there, done that, and on the other we've got people who think that a preemptive nuclear strike would be a good warmup, but who seem to have gained their knowledge of the way the world works from the cartoon channel, spike-tv, pro-wrestling, and old Charlie Bronson movies...

 

[Good Shot Group]

My Lord, what has happened to this thread? Folks telling others to "shove it". I thought this was the high road. We are not playing nicely with others.

 

[Monkeybear]

I would avoid opening the door if your neighbor is loudly pounding on it and making threats.

To the OP.
We have all given your our take on the situation. Only you know the true severity of your neighbor's hostility against you. Personally if I were you I would evaluate if your life/well being is at stake. If its not then there is no reason to bring firearms into the situation. If thats the case then this thread is off topic.

If you still want to talk about guns for general self defense and recreation then start up another thread about your interest in them. If you still want to talk about your neighbor but are not in actual fear of your life then try the Armed and Polite forum.

 

[bogie]

This is the advice to take...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuHVHrriC0U