Virgin reloader here. Am I on the right track?

Status
Not open for further replies.

mickeydim468

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
700
Location
Oregon Coast
I have two rifles, a .243 WIN and a 30.06. The .243 has a 22" BBL and the 30.06 has a 20" BBL. I have rounded up what I could get my hands on so far and I think I am ready to give my first load a try. I have H4350 powder and Federal Large Rifle Primers. My reloading book is not specific as to which primer to use. My book is Modern Reloading by Richard Lee. I have 100Gr bullets for the .243 and 150Gr bullets for the 30.06. I bought the Lee Classic Loader for each caliber, that you use a hammer with, and am a little worried about setting the primers. Any last minute suggestions before I start this. I have already cleaned the brass with dish soap and water and used 0000 steel wool to remove discoloration from the outside of the case. I scraped the residue from the primer pockets with a sharp screwdriver. I have also neck sized all of the cases too. I have measured all of the case lengths with my calipers and they are all below Max case length, so I think I am ready to go.

What do you think? What's the best method of priming the cases with the tools I have listed? I have no money in the budget for anything else right now. Heck, I am doing good to have what I've got now.

Thanks,

Mikey!

P.S.

I also was wondering. Since my BBLs are shorter than the 24" average BBL, is the H4350 a fast enough powder for these rifles?
 
Last edited:
It's been 30 years since I used those tools, but I remember getting quite a bit of enjoyment out of it. I loaded .30-06 and .222, if I remember right.

As I remember, you follow the same reloading sequence you would with a single-stage press, resizing, repriming, powder charge with the "dipper", and then bullet seating.

As long as the primer goes in "square" and the pocket is clean before you try to seat primers, you shouldn't have trouble. The center of the primer has to be hit, rather hard, to press the compound inside against the anvil and get ignition. Uniform pressure, such as tapping one in with the Lee tools, doesn't dent the primer. And, once it's seated, bullet seating doesn't dent it either.
 
Ahh, the Lee hammer-it-in reloader...

Mickey Dim 468--Yes, you are on the right track. I cut my teeth on the Lee Loader in .30-'06, back in the day. Lots of us did.

A couple thoughts: 1. After washing the cases, make SURE they are completely dry inside. 2. H4350 will work just fine in both the .243 Win and the '06, regardless of the rifle's bbl length. Follow Lee's directions for powder-scooping the right amount, and scoop each charge, and cut off the powder at the top of the scoop, EXACTLY the same each time.

For priming the cases, you use the Lee setup, just as Lee directs. If you hammer the primer into the case too enthusiastically, you may detonate the primer. Since the primer is at that point surrounded by steel, no biggie. There will be a startling BANG! and some smoke will rise up around your hand holding the die. After it happens the first time it won't bother you, except that each time you do it, you've wasted a primer. At that point, you just decap that spent primer, resize the case again, and proceed from there. Maybe hammer just a little less on each primer as you seat it. However: You DO want to seat the primers completely--Make sure they are just a little below flush with the base of the case when you are done seating them.

Aside from that, it seems from your description that you are very much on the right path.

And there is nothing, NOTHING, like taking your first home-mades to the range, and having them all go bang, and getting nice accuracy from them to boot.

Welcome to The Magnificent Obsession--Reloading!
 
As noted its no big deal. There is a UTube of a guy doing this. Actually several. The only cartridge that ever gave me problems with this type of primer was the 303 Brit. Welcome to reloading.
 
I used the Lee classic loader in my hunter training class, until they banned live components in class.

It worked great and many question were asked about reloading. The students were impressed on how easy it was to reload.
 
Started out reloading some cal. with the Lee loader. Yep you're on the right track. Only suggestion I'd make is use a dead blow hammer instead of a steel hammer.

Even if by chance a primer would go off while setting one the bang will scare you "reread surprise" more than anything. Everything is enclosed and a primer is not powerful enough in this case to cause damage.
 
Looks like you are good to go, Just follow the instruction card. As mentioned, no big deal if you set off a primer, Just startles and humbles you. I am sure all of us have set one off at some time or another. Primers are actually pretty tough little guys.

Also both of those take large rifel primers so you are good to go.

Best of Luck, Welcome to Reloading

AD
 
Alot of people will say the less expensive scales are no good but they are getting better.

I remember the first trainster radio I bought for around $300, today they are nothing, remember the first simple calculators, mine cost $200, today the simple ones are $1-$2, My first VCR was $1200 today if you can find one there $35.

Times change and prices change with it. Hornady now has an electronic scale for $29 retail. I doubt very much hornady is putting their name on a piece of junk. It may not be the Rolls Royce of scales but it more than likely will serve the purpose, and I doubt many here own the Rolls Royce in all their equipment.

If the scale repeats with the test weight thats supplied really what more do you want. Want to check lighter weights just weigh a dime or penny and save it for a check weight, if it always the same theres no problem.

Hope this helps, can go into more tomorrow.
 
Well I finished up 40 rounds. 20 of each caliber. My friend and I are going to go out to the range tomorrow and see how they do. My primers didn't come in today, so I found another source. I couldn't find what I had coming or even regular branded primers. I found what looks like military surplus stuff. It was cheap and it was all i could find so I got 400 of them. They are listed as Caliber 30 primers. they look ok. They are shiny brass color so I am hoping they go boom!

I followed the instruction book as everyone suggested and everything seemed to go together pretty easily. Once I got a rhythm going it went along pretty fast.

The minimum OAL for the H4350 in my .243 said 2.650 for a 100 Gr bullet and the maximum recommended length is 2.710, so I set it at 2.665 and that is how much I seated the bullets.
The 30.06 is similar in that the minimum for the H4350 is 3.250 for 150 Gr bullets and the maximum recommended length is 3.340, so I set it at 3.295 for those.

Does that sound like it should be ok?

I used the 4.0 scoop for the 30.06 and the 2.5 scoop for the .243. According to the reference chart that came with the assorted scoop kit the 2.5 is 34.5Gr. and the 4.0 is 55.2Gr. These are both a little lighter than the light load data. That data called for 37.0 for the .243 and 56.0 for the 30.06. I measured as carefully as I could and tried to make it pretty level for the 30.06 scoop and I let it be a little rounded for the .243 scoop since the .243 scoop is 2.5Gr light. Either way, I tried my best to make it as uniform as I could by eye.

I know I really need to get a proper scale, I just have to wait to get one. I have 4 kids, so I don't get too much allowance to save up for stuff rapidly. We just found out I am going to be a grandpa too. Luckily this is my son who just got married. Bad part is he just got out of the Navy and is still unemployed. Hmmmph!

It's all good! Like someone's signature that I saw on here said... The Ox is slow, but the earth is patient. I am learning to be the earth here!:D

Mikey!
 
Last edited:
Get those 40 to the range and see how they work. Please buy a scale so you know where you are exactly with regards to powder charge. You should be good to go.

LGB
 
Here's another thought regarding the Hornady scale selling for $29. Hornady being in the reloading business is going to have a scale that will suffice and give accurate measurements, otherwise they would open themselves to all kind of lawsuits for selling equipment that would cause injury.

Not likely their corperate lawers would be so ignorant.
 
lgb,
I will try to give a good range report tonight when we get back if not too tired, otherwise it will be tomorrow. I have to work all day and then drive 60 miles each way to the range so I can get an accurate report.

jcwit,
Good point.

How are these going cartridges going to fly compared to the Remington 100 Gr Core Lokt and 150 Gr Core Lokt for the .243 and 30.06 respectively? Will I have to change my scope adjustment much?

Mikey!
 
Cartridge OverAll Length: COAL...

Mickey Dim 468--You asked,
The minimum OAL for the H4350 in my .243 said 2.650 for a 100 Gr bullet and the maximum recommended length is 2.710, so I set it at 2.665 and that is how much I seated the bullets.
The 30.06 is similar in that the minimum for the H4350 is 3.250 for 150 Gr bullets and the maximum recommended length is 3.340, so I set it at 3.295 for those. Does that sound like it should be ok?

COAL (or sometimes, just COL, or OAL; it's all the same thing) is not dependent on which powder is used. It depends on, first, the length of the bullet you've chosen, compared to how much room there is in your rifle's chamber before the lands of the bbl (barrel) begin. The bullet should normally NOT be touching those lands, so you set it into the cartridge case enough so that it doesn't.

The SAMMI COAL (SAMMI is the governing body in the US for specs for commercially available ammunition, and firearms) for your .243 Win cartridges is 2.710". The SAMMI COAL for the .30-'06 cartridges is 3.340". (Both according to my new Lyman's 49th edition reloading handbook.) Keep your COAL's below that and in a commercially U. S.-made rifle you're golden.

Secondly, COAL is also governed by the length of your magazine, unless you have a single-shot, or a tubular-magazine rifle. The cartridges have to fit into, and feed out of, the magazine, properly, and they won't do this if they're too long. So you may be limited in your COAL by your rifle's magazine. Likewise if you're crimping the case mouth into the cannelure of the bullet, you're limited in your COAL by the width of the cannelure. (Re-reading this, I just remembered that the Lee Classic doesn't crimp case mouths, so skip that consideration.)

Thirdly, and most important from an accuracy standpoint, the bullet should have only a short "jump" to make between the cartridge case and the lands of the barrel, when the cartridge is fired. This is perhaps more advanced than you want; experienced target-shooting reloaders experiment with each different bullet they use, to find exactly how many 1/1000's of an inch off the lands their rifle "prefers" with that bullet and that powder charge. They may go longer than SAAMI spec for the COL for this, but we're usually talking single-loading bolt actions here.

Anyhow, bottom line on COAL, you're keeping between the recommended minima and maxima, so your rounds should work just fine.

Scooping powder: Sounds like you're trying to do it very carefully and consistently, and that's good. Follow Lee's directions for correct powder charge, until you get a powder measuring dispenser, and a scale. At that point you'll need a reloading reference book, also, but for the present Lee's directions will serve you well.

Re the difference between your reloads and commercial rounds: you'll have to find this out by experience. Probably the difference in POI (Point Of Impact) will not be great, but you may very well be in for at least a little 'scope adjusting, so bring along the appropriate tools for that. Hint: Don't change the 'scope setting after each shot--take 2, 3, 4 shots with no flinches and no trigger jerks, off of sandbags, before deciding to make a change.

Finally, the important item: Congrats on the coming grandchild!! :):):) If your boy has good stuff in him he'll manage some way, and your role in being a good Grandpa is important to the youn'un's growing up right, so do your best. With Help, you can be about half the man your dog thinks you are, and that'll be enough. Being a Grandpa will be more significant for the future of the world than any reloading you do or don't do, for all your life.

But, enjoy the reloading, too! :)
 
Last edited:
Smokey Joe!

Thank you for such an eloquent explanation of your answer. I have never heard the saying "Be 1/2 the man you dog thinks you are!" by anyone other than me. I love that saying and do my darndest to be that guy! My boy will get through it, but it still make his pops worry, especially with his new wife, and now a Grandchild on the way! I still have a 6 year old daughter at home. I am not ready to be a grandpa! LOL:what:

One question for you... How do I measure the distance to the lands of the grooves? Is it right where they start to appear or when they are at their full depth and with what tool do you do the measurement?

Mikey!
 
Distance to lands...

Mickey Dim 468--
One question for you... How do I measure the distance to the lands of the grooves?
The grooves are BETWEEN the lands, along the gun's bore, and the 2 features make up the rifling.

Now, for the distance you ask about, it's the distance from the bolt face (action closed) to where the lands & grooves begin. There are several devices available for that measurement.

Simplest is to take a case fired in the rifle in question, squeeze the neck just a little out of round, so it just holds a bullet, insert bullet into case neck a short way, and chamber that case gently. The bullet will be pushed back by the lands of the rifling as the action closes. Then you open the action gently, and, hopefully, the dummy round comes out w/o the bullet being disturbed. You measure its total length, and that is the COAL for just-touching-the-lands with THAT PARTICULAR BULLET model and weight in that particular rifle. You do several tries, and average the results. (Especially with lead-nosed bullets, the length of each bullet's nose will vary a bit.) It is a putzy method, to be sure, but requires nothing but a fired case, the bullet you intend to use, and a caliper that reads to thousandths of an inch.

Since the bullet touches the rifling along a curve, you don't get the exact distance from bolt face to rifling. And since each model and weight of bullet is curved differently, you have to re-do the measurement for each different bullet you propose to reload. Putzy. But it works. There are other (more expensive) gadgets to do the same thing.

Once you have the COAL to just-touching-the-rifling, you can experiment with bullet seating depth--is this load more accurate with the bullet 0.005" off the rifling, or is it better at 0.010" off the rifling, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

Understand that you may get a maximum COAL that you can't use, because the cartridge won't fit into the rifle's magazine, or with a light bullet, the bullet is too far out of the case neck to be reliably seated, or some such. But that's how it's done, FWIW.

Also, the max COAL you discover, will probably be longer than the SAAMI max for the cartridge in question. That's all right--SAAMI has to make their measurements to fit all rifles of a given cartridge, and you are dealing here with just one rifle, the COAL for which you have an accurate measurement.

I wish I could give proper credit to who wrote The Dog Owner's Prayer. "Oh God, please help me to be up to half the man my dog thinks I am." I read it somewhere, and it sure does apply.
 
Last edited:
If I were you, I would get a Lee Perfect Hand Primer or whatever it's called. I love mine and I think I paid 10 bucks for it. Make priming ALOT easier.
 
One thing to note. If you use a manual for load data with the Lee Classic loader you will need to have at minimum a powder scale to throw your charges. If you don't have a powder scale, use the chart supplied with the loader that tells you what bullet weight to use with what powder when using the supplied powder scoop. Make sure not to mix up the supplied powder scoop as its specific to the supplied data sheet and caliber, the one supplied with the '06 is likely larger capacity than the .243 and if you put a heavier charge than you should you could get a KB or other high pressure problems.
 
Well, I took my new reloads out on Friday and I had mixed results. Do you want the good news first or the bad news?

Well, I will start off with the bad news: The .243 Win has an underlying accuracy problem that I cannot yet figure out. The last time I took it out, it was shooting about 2" at 100 yds. So I decided to test it with some factory ammo. I could not find the normal 100Gr Remington CoreLokt that I usually shoot with this rifle, so I picked up some Hornady 100Gr. I shot 3 shots at 100 yds and didn't even touch the paper. So I moved to 25 yds and got it dialed in which took another 5 shots and then I moved back out to 100yds again. The first shot was aligned perfectly for windage but about 3" high, so I shot 2 more shots without touching the scope. The 2nd shot was aligned perfectly up and down but was right 3" and the third shot was a bullseye. Then I shot three more shots, and I was all over the paper. So I decided to try my bullets that I made. Same thing as the Hornadys. I completely missed the paper. So I moved back to the 25 yard line and hit bulls with three shots, again, without touching the scope. So I moved back out to 100 yds and again I was on paper but was all over the thing. I shot the last 5 shots and they were high, low, left, and right. You name it, no rhyme nor reason as to where they were going to hit so , frustrated, I changed over to my 30.06.

Now for the good news:

I started at 25yds. Right off the bat I hit three bulls. So I moved out to 100yards. The first three shots I did: 1 was 1.5" high on a 1" target. the 2nd was 1.5 low after adjusting the scope 6 clicks down, and the 3rd was a bullseye, after adjusting the scope 3 clicks up. Then I changed the spot to another 1" target on the same paper and 6 out of 8 shots were measured with my calipers at .83" and the 2 fliers were 2" apart 1 and inch high and just left of center and 1 and inch low and left 1/4" of center. I have never been able to keep that many shots that close, ever before now. I am not going to change a thing with this recipe. I absolutely love the way it shoots now and it doesn't even kick as hard with this recipe. It may be a softer load than the Remington 150Gr CoreLokt bullets but they sure hit the target with a lot more accuracy. :)

One thing to mention from my day at the range. It was an awesome feeling to know, that I had made these bullets, and that they were so much more accurate than the bullets I usually buy. Even with the Lee Classic Loader and a scoop to measure the powder, I had more fun that just sitting there going: Boom! There goes another 0.80 cents, Boom! There goes another 0.80 cents. There was a sense of excitement and accomplishment with every pull of the trigger. Wow, what a good time I had.

Also, I did have one cartridge fail to load. It was one of the 30.06 cartridges. I had loaded the magazine with 6 and when I got to this one I could not get it all the way in the chamber. So, I pulled it out and looked at it, and it looked fine. I tried to hand load it, and it still wouldn't go in, so I very carefully, with the muzzle downrange, tried to give it some more pressure to get it to go in. When I decided I was exerting too much force I stopped and pulled it out. I found that the brass was slightly bent right at the mouth next to the bullet. So, I pulled the bullet out, which was now loose, and emptied the powder back in my powder bottle, so I can load it into another case and try again! I love that! The only thing lost... 1 case and 1 primer. Unless you know of a way to pull a primer without detonating it!

Just to mention: It was a sunny day, with temperature of about 60 degrees, and it was a bit windy, with gusts to 20Mph coming from right around 2 O'clock!

Mikey!
 
Last edited:
One thing to note. If you use a manual for load data with the Lee Classic loader you will need to have at minimum a powder scale to throw your charges. If you don't have a powder scale, use the chart supplied with the loader that tells you what bullet weight to use with what powder when using the supplied powder scoop. Make sure not to mix up the supplied powder scoop as its specific to the supplied data sheet and caliber, the one supplied with the '06 is likely larger capacity than the .243 and if you put a heavier charge than you should you could get a KB or other high pressure problems.
Steve, I have the powder measure kit too. That would help a lot with the different recipes that are out there. Still, the one I chose to load was from the little card. It worked fine for the 30.06. the jury is still out for the .243 though.

Smokey Joe!

Thanks for that tidbit on measuring COAL. I will give it a try and see how close I am to whatever it gives me from what I am currently set at. My gun liked the ones I made pretty well so I may not change what I have now!

Mikey!
 
Ain't reloadin' wonderful!!

Mickey Dim 468--Great news on the '06! Thx for the range report.

Re: The .243--Before you do anything drastic, check the action screws which hold the rifle action into (onto) the stock. If these are loose there will be no accuracy. Likewise, check the 'scope mounting screws--A wobble here will likewise ruin any chance of accuracy. And either place, looseness can produce just the symptoms you describe--No accuracy, but no consistency either.

If you find looseness, either area, tighten with the appropriate tool: Allen wrench for allen screws, gunsmith's screwdriver for slotted screws, Phillips screwdriver for Phillips screws. Appropriate size driver, too--If it's sloppy it can ding up the screw slot/Allen hex.

A carpenter's (regular) screwdriver isn't good for gun screws--It has a tapered blade which, again, can ding up the slot but good. A gunsmith's screwdriver is ground parallel, not tapered, at the tip end of the blade so it sits square in the screw slot.

You may have to order a gunsmith screwdriver set from Midway or similar. AFAIK, they aren't to be had @ Home Depot or such, or even yr local gun shop unless it is very well stocked.

Now, if your stock was tight to begin with, and so was your 'scope mount, then you have some detective work to do. Let's see...you said that you got the same results from Hornady commercial ammo as from your reloads, so it probably is NOT your reloading technique at fault. (And your '06 reloads performed well, further suggesting that your reloading technique is sound.)

I'm not sure what to suggest. This .243 rifle shot better than that with its old original commercial loads, no? Same weight bullet, too. It should not have gone from OK to terrible just like that, except for a mechanical reason. The only next step I can think of is to get some of the original commercial ammo and see if the rifle will still group that at 2" at 100 yd. If it will do so, then mebbe it just doesn't like the Hornady bullets, nor your particular reloads, and you need to try to duplicate the Remington 100 grain Core-Lockts' load. If the rifle has gone terrible with the ammo that it was previously OK with, then you definitely have some sort of mechanical problem, which a gunsmith should look at. But don't do any of this paragraph before you check the firmness of the stock mount screws, and the 'scope mount screws. Fortunately, one of these is often the culprit, and they're both easy to correct.

Good luck on that! Hope it doesn't become one of those annoying gol-durn ongoing mysteries!!

At least your '06 is working great!!
 
Last edited:
Smokey Joe,

I had been having troubles with my regular ammo too. I thought I had it licked when I upgraded the scope to the same one as my '06. It was shooting better the time before this report. But then it was doing the same thing as before. It was all over the place. One thing to mention... It is not the bedding of the action! That is not possible, it is a Rossi single shot .243 Win. I have heard mixed reports that this gun is very accurate or not accurate at all. So, maybe I just got one of the not accurate guns. I have checked the tightness of the scope mounts and all other logical things to check. I wonder, would the tightness of the front hand guard make a difference? This would be the only beddingesque problem I could think of. The .22lr of this gun and the 20Ga. are both spot on for accuracy. They both shoot well! Even though it is the youth model rifle with a 22" barrel, it fits me very nicely since I added a Limb Saver Slip on recoil pad. The LOP is exactly the same as my M1917 '06. It kicks about the same as the '06 too, even though it is only a .243. The new reloads fit so snugly and go in so smoothly I can't imagine that the ammo is the problem. There is no slop between the case and the chamber at all, like there is with the factory ammo, but this is because the Lee Classic Loader only neck sizes the cases. This too should have proved to have given better results. I figure I am going to remove the scope from the mix altogether and try using the iron sights and see if they give me any better results.

I checked the distance on my '06 from the bolt-head to the lands as you described above. I came up with 3.235 average using 10 attempts which ranged from 3.227 to 3.243. The load data for the recipe I am using says that the Min OAL should be 3.250, so I set my die to 3.255" and made up 80 more rounds last night. This inserts the bullet 0.020 onto the lands prior to shooting. The first loads I made had a length of 3.295 which would have the bullet inserted into the lands by 0.060 if my calculations are correct. I am hoping that this will make the pressure just a bit higher and possibly keep the accuracy up. If it doesn't, then I will have to pull a bunch of bullets and re-do them at 3.295 again as this was a pretty good work up! I am just hoping that I can improve upon the results I had with 3.295 without change the charge of powder. So many variables to play with. This is wonderland! :D

At any rate, thanks for all of your advice!

I truly do appreciate it.

Mikey!
 
OK, I went back out to the range this last Sunday and I took both of my rifles. A little pre-cursor here. I sold the Rossi Trifecta package and bought a Weatherby Vangard with a synthetic stock in .243 to replace the .243 Rossi.

I couldn't use the reloads I had made for the Rossi, because my Lee Classic Loader only neck sizes the neck. The loads would not fit in the new rifle, so I bought a new box of Remmington Express Core Lokt 100Gr ammo to use for breaking in the rifle. I shot all 20 of those rounds cleaning, between each shot, until they were gone, and then re-loaded that brass right there at the range. I was able to shoot a 3 shot group, with the newly made reloaded ammo, that had a diameter of .707" at 100yds. For a pic see this thread:Range report pics and thread about the Rossi

I was also able to get some better groups on the 30.06. As I mentioned above, I changed the depth that I seated the bullets after measuring the bore. This proved to be a better combo as I was able to achieve a 5 shot group at 100yds with a diameter of .97" which includes one flier if you want to call it that. There were 4 shots that touched and then this flier! Those 4 shots measured .781" with the 5th shot to left of those in that group. I think I flinched. Either way, I am loving this reloading stuff. By the way, The 5 shot group picture is the picture on the right in the other thread.
 
Decapping live primers

You can decap live primers, but you have to be very careful. I made a special decapper years ago that I used.Had to make up a decapping pin that fit into the case, wiggle it around until I foung the primer hole and them lightly tap the pin with a block of wood.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top