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Virginia's next move

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by jr45, Nov 7, 2019.

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  1. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    Ok after checking out that site (AR15) I wish I hadnt.

    It really almost makes me want to not participate as it seems there could certainly be a lot of tactical wannabes looking to pick a fight with the all lefties that are certainly to be there.

    I WILL go and stand with the VCDL group but I feel these other folks are going to turn this into an "S" show and be ultimately negative to the cause.

    That's really a shame...
     
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  2. badkarmamib

    badkarmamib Member

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    I have decided (for myself) that there will be all kinds there, with a lot of different agendas. I will be ever-conscious of attention-seeking baiters from both sides, and doing my best to keep my head down and mouth shut when needed. This is LOBBY DAY, not protest day. I am going as a peaceful, responsible citizen, with the purpose of politely explaining my stance on my inalienable rights. That is what THIS day is all about. The 2A Sanctuary Movement is a preemptive show of strength and solidarity, this is about making our voices (peacefully) heard. I see this as our last chance for a peaceful resolution.
     
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  3. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

    12/18/19: VA Del. Nick Freitas Rips Northam's Anti-Gun Agenda, Praises 2A Sanctuaries - We lost the general assembly by less than 5000 votes ... A lot of people didn't realize what was coming but they do realize it now ... A lot of Democrats are very determined to push this legislation through ... Democrats want to take your guns ... Nobody is fooled anymore ... Nobody believes this is where it's going to stop ... They are going to do more than what they are claiming

    This movement ... to protect the Second Amendment rights and all of their civil rights ... You are seeing something that isn't going away ... I think the Democrats have awaken a sleeping giant at this moment

    Sheriffs said "We are not going to enforce unconstitutional laws" ... law enforcement agencies lack the resources to divert much needed resources from rape and violent cases to confiscate guns that citizens bought legally is now illegal because they "look scary"

    (AWB is not going to stop crime/shootings) Even if they get the AWs banned ... they will come back a year later and try to ban something else because the policies they are pushing for don't actually produce the results they promised to their constituents ... They will come back with new ways to infringe on your Second Amendment rights ...There is no common sense gun control ... Registration leads to confiscation as they are planning to take them in the future

     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
  4. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    Unfortunately, the happenings planned for Jan. 20th have transcended the gun issue. The VCDL is very justifiably worried about this. It's shaping up to be another Charlottesville "unite the Right" rally. If you have Confederate and Nazi flags, guys in tactical gear, etc., the pro-gun message will be lost and the media will be focused on the right-wingers. We don't want gun owners to be seen as part of the extreme-right coalition. In the long run this will diminish our clout considerably. And if something really bad happens (people being killed), as the result of an accident or an Antifa provocation, this will destroy our cause in the very short run.

    The VDCL needs to monitor the developing situation closely and, if necessary, cancel its participation entirely. The VCDL request not to march with long arms, or as uniformed "militias," was a half-hearted attempt to distance itself from these dire consequences. More may be needed. But I fear that it already may be too late to avert the worst.

    I can tell you that the antigunners are salivating over this prospect.
     
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  5. badkarmamib

    badkarmamib Member

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    Yep. The last chance we have at peaceful resolution, let's just pull the plug. While you're at it, why don't you go ahead and mail all of your firearms directly to the Capitol for destruction?
     
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  6. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    It's a real dilemma. On the one hand, we need to have a large, peaceful pro-gun demonstration, but on the other hand, we need to make clear that neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and self-styled "militias" are not welcome. If the latter groups gain the upper hand in organizing the event, legit gun owners should give it a wide berth.

    All signs point to this becoming a public-relations nightmare.
     
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  7. 40-82

    40-82 Member

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    Do you really believe that if the antifa believes enough in their cause to attack a gun owner and the predictable results occur that it will help their credibility?

    Please bear in mind that I'm not arguing--tone is sometimes hard to convey in the cold black and white of words--I'm asking a sincere question because I believe you make a sincere effort to keep your thumb on the pulse of the breaking political scene.
     
  8. LaneP

    LaneP Member

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    The only problem with saboteurs of peaceably assembled gun owners is mass media reporting will cover it with an anti-gun slant all over the place on headlines and top-of-the-fold news print, even knowing they are misleading the public about it. If they are called out for false reporting of the scene, they will quietly claim they made some "mistake". But by then the public relations damage is done. It's their modus operandi and we see this over and over and over.
     
  9. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    We can voice our opinions all we want but what will matter is how this "2A Sanctuary Movement" will influence law makers and future elections.

    I think it's too early to tell what will actually happen.

    I mean, very few people saw Trump winning 2016 election ... right? ;)

    And yes, I am for peaceful civil "lobbying" of law makers as you don't need guns to lobby, just firm convicted voice to convey your sentiment.
     
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  10. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    The "2nd Amendment Sanctuary Movement" has been successful so far because it has taken place where gun rights are already strongly supported (rural counties). It's unclear that this success can be scaled up to a statewide basis in a state like Virginia, where the bulk of the population is concentrated in the urban/suburban areas. The sanctuary counties have most of the state's area, but not most of the population. Lawmakers from the urban areas really don't care about what's done in the "flyover" rural counties.
    The saboteurs of the Jan. 20 event are of two types: our "friends" and our "enemies." There are people in both these camps that would be more than happy to "kick off the boogaloo," meaning that they want a civil war to start in Richmond. (Regarding our "friends," all you have to do is read some of the postings over on ar15.com.) These people are coming from all over the country. They don't care about Virginia. All Virginia represents to them is a "line in the sand" and a convenient tinderbox.
    There are Antifa sympathizers (and other crazies) that would kill to further their cause. But I doubt they would attack a gun owner. After all, that would elicit sympathy for gun owners. No, from hiding, they would attack a Mom Demanding Action, or a member of the State Police, or a politician, in such a way as to put the blame on gun owners. That's a classic "false flag" operation. And we are pretty much powerless to prevent such a thing from happening.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
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  11. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I don't think antifa have an actual cause, they just want to destroy civilization.

    Also, based on pretty much every much video I've ever seen of them, they are very "brave" with their bike locks etc as long as there are more of them than the people they are attacking, and the people they are attacking aren't very big, fit, or possessed of any self-defense skills. I highly doubt any of them would undertake a suicide mission, i.e. attacking an armed person.
     
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  12. 40-82

    40-82 Member

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    I think you're right about their intentions, although, I personally have never met anyone who admitted to being Antifa. The Democrats I know don't condone them.

    But I wonder, parking is likely to be difficult on lobby day. I'm likely to have a long walk alone in to the Capitol. I won't be dressed in anything other than my normal choice for an urban environment: jacket and tie, and my old stock handling cane, which fits my age and gray hair, although it's hardly necessary for mobility. I'll wear nothing to delineate any political persuasion That I'm actually in excellent physical due to years of brutal physical work won't be apparent.

    I'll look vulnerable. My size alone is unlikely to dissuade a roving crowd of masked younger men.

    I can just hear a judge from Richmond pronouncing in the aftermath, "Your very look of vulnerability baited them."

    I can just hear the echo of so many self-defense experts in this forum that your first line of defense is to avoid going to stupid places with stupid people. Yet, I feel honor bound to be there.
     
  13. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    I feel the exact same way.

    If the media picks up on this thing and it gets built up to the point where it's just going to be 2 angry mobs overshadowing the VCDL I may rethink things.

    I'm not a coward but I here that same echo too...
     
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  14. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Those that take the buses the VCDL is organizing and resolves the parking and companions concerns.

    The buses are a great service/idea since it solves so many impediments.
     
  15. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    That's ignoring the fact that those "flyover" counties have legislators as well and with the opposition solidifying those legislators represent a block that is organizing and coordinating.

    By pushing radical proposals the Antis have forced the organizing of the opposition and that's a "gift" to everyone that opposes their statist authoritarian gun grabbing. "WE" just can't let it go to waste.
     
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  16. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    There are a handful of Democratic legislators from rural counties, and those legislators are going to be the key to blocking the governor's plans. Their dilemma is going to be whether they go with party loyalty, or loyalty to their constituents. What's important to influence them is one-on-one interaction with gun rights activists from their districts, not the presence of a huge crowd in the streets. Ergo the YCDL is stressing Jan. 20 as lobby day, not as protest day.
     
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  17. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I think your reasoning is 100%.

    To you and anyone else here planning to go, GO IN A GROUP. Being that a number of folks here have posted that they want to go, why not plan to meet somewhere beforehand so all of you can go together?
     
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  18. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I thought of that when I made my reply to 40-82, but wasn't sure whether the buses will be dropping off their passengers right at the capitol or what the plan was. Sounds like you are well-enough informed to make the recommendation.

    If anyone here wants to go on a bus and finds the $35 difficult, PM me, I will sponsor up to three people. Myself, I don't fly such distances any more, so that will be my way of going. :)
     
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  19. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Freitas pointed out that the Antis won the election by only 5,000 votes, so this is not like Chicago overwhelming the rest of Illinois or similar.
     
  20. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    I absolutely agree.

    And to all, keep in mind, the founders were very much like us, ordinary people with families and concerns. Instead of Antifa punks, they faced the British Army. They had much more to risk than just cold weather and some parking issues. And I am sure there were those that argued going against the British rule was a bad idea ... If I were there, I too have said the same thing.

    But despite the odds, the brave founders chose to stand up and fight back followed by thoughtful writing of the Constitution then later added the Bill of Rights (Yes, at first many founders thought the BOR was not necessary :eek:). The brave founders did all these so we can have a country to live with liberty free from tyranny. The fact that we can have an open discussion about the Second Amendment unlike other countries that already experienced gun ban/confiscation is due to our brave founders answering the call to action against a bad idea, against all odds, to prevail for our liberty.

    Throughout the history of this country, ordinary people stood up for the minority rights listed in the Bill of Rights against the will of the majority even though it was a bad idea and harm could come their way. Well, I am happy to report that due to these brave ordinary people who chose to stand up, minority rights were protected and preserved against the will of the majority.

    For me, standing up for Second Amendment rights is not much different than standing up for the 13th to end slavery, 15th the right to vote, 19th the women's right to vote, etc.

    It's interesting that the 14th Amendment speaks of State not depriving any person of liberty or property with equal protection of the laws yet law makers in VA are planning to do just that against the 2nd Amendment.

    Yes, standing up for the Bill of Rights, all of them, is what the founders expected us to do and our call to action to remind the law makers is honoring the sacrifice the founders made.


    And for whatever reason, those that don't want to attend the lobby day, that's your choice. But if you would have attended if Antifa or parking issue etc. were not a concern, then please donate the same amount of money you would have spent attending the rally so others who want to stand up can attend.

    How would you answer your children or grandchildren when they ask what you did to protect and preserve their Second Amendment rights to gun ownership for self protection/defense against rapists and multiple home invasion robbers? Will you stand up for their rights so they too can live their lives with liberty?

    For me, yes. I will make the sacrifice in time and/or donation and brave the concerns for my children and grandchildren.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
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  21. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    The Founders were mostly young men, several signers of the Declaration were still in their 20's.

    Regarding those who physically fought the British, there were two groups, the militias and the Continental Army. Regarding the militia, "On July 18, 1775, the Congress requested all colonies form militia companies from "all able bodied effective men, between sixteen and fifty years of age."" Regarding the Continental Army, "The official enlistment age for the Continental Army was 16, (15 with parental consent) but soldiers could sign on up to the age of 55. The majority of Continental soldiers were young men, usually around 17 or 18 years old. Older soldiers had more responsibilities at home, such as families to raise and farms to tend to, so they usually joined the local militias instead because the militia was a part-time commitment that worked locally and didn’t have to march off to war like the Continental Army did." (https://historyofmassachusetts.org/continental-soldiers-revolutionary-war/)
    "The soldiers were of all ages from young boys to old men. The majority of the soldiers, however, were ages 18-24. Young boys in the army worked as messengers, water carriers, and drummers." (ducksters.com)

    Yes, absolutely they were brave, but they were not a bunch of old folks with gray hair. The vast majority of old folks would only accomplish a sort of martyrdom by putting themselves alone in the middle of a bunch of antifa. Which might possibly help the cause by making the antifa look even worse (if that's possible), but is probably not the most effective way of helping.

     
  22. badkarmamib

    badkarmamib Member

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    Amen, Brother! We must remember that what we do (or fail to do) now, will have lasting effects for future generations.
     
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  23. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    But in colonial times, by the time men reached teenage years, they were considered "of age" and already married with families. By the time they were in their 20s, many were already married and some experienced nearly a decade of raising a family and various responsibilities of life (unlike today ... no offense to hardworking young righteous patriotic men).

    Believe me, the vast majority of the founders were fighting for their families, not just chest thumping young men.

    Coming back to 2019, the focus of the 2A Sanctuary Movement should be protecting and preserving the Second Amendment rights as originally intended by the founders ... Will there be opposition? You bet. Should that change the movement's focus? Heck no.

    "We the People" have the right to peaceful assembly.

    I am in support of peaceful assembly and choosing not to engage anyone such as Antifa. What they choose to do (rather paid to do), is their choice. But I would not allow the threat of Antifa presence from my desire to participate in my right to peaceful assembly to lobby/communicate with law makers.

    Keep in mind, like the "Revolutionary Movement" during the colonial times, the "2A Sanctuary Movement" could be well beyond us individuals. If the vast majority of gun owners and supporters, both young and old, already decided to stand up for 2A rights, none of us will be able to stop. We can simply either choose to support or not support.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
  24. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I'm not talking about chest thumping, I'm talking about the physical condition of human bodies. The vast majority of people in their 70's and up are not going to come out ahead if they walk alone into a group of antifa.

    I AM NOT SUGGESTING NOT TO GO. I AM SAYING, GO IN A GROUP.

    For the record, if I were in Virginia, I would go. With a group. And carrying concealed.
     
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  25. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes!
     
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