VZ.58 Club:

[Maverick223]

Welcome to the club, sizzle! I'm not much help with respect to answering your query, but I know that I've seen some of the dust-cover type rails attached to vz2008s. The specifications are the same (as far as the receiver, internals are a bit different) so all should fit without issue, but not having a vz2008 I can't say that for certain.

 

[Bohemus]

So I have the vz2008 and I have been thinking of getting the dust cover with the rail .. Has anyone used this on a vz2008 and will this even fit on this gun? .. I have been looking for other options but the choices are limited.. The NEA's Cantilever scope mount is no longer in production and the side mount seems to stick up to high for my needs.. Any suggestions guys?

All vz.58 clones should be exactly the same in this part of receiver.
There are two options:
Expensive GunExpert version with quick release that works great.
And cheaper Kinggun/Zahal option with two screws.. Works fine too just doesnt look so cool

Sorry for crappy image, the upper one with springs and red dot is mine GE, below is Kinggun just before i packed it and sent to one thr member.
My kosa:
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6315/p1060128wii.jpg

 

[Swampman]

@ Maverick223
I looked on Czechpoint's website but couldn't fond any of the floorplates you referred to. I also did a couple of web searches and had no better luck.

I've thought about cutting one of my 30's down and trying to bend out new tabs to fit the old floorplate, but I've read that the aluminum is tempered so hard that it'll crack unless you anneal it and then re-temper when you have everything fitted.

I'm pretty decent with projects, but that sounds to me like I'd probably end up with a puddle of aluminum slag.

If you've got extra floorplates in stock I might need your assistance with this one in a month or two.

Originally posted by barnbwt

The drum conversions are unreliable? Mine was at first, but I opened up the feed lip a hair and it runs great, now .

Did you convert the drum yourself or buy it already converted? I wouldn't mind trying to convert one of my $59 Romanian's, but no way I'm gonna shell out the amount of dough they're asking for on Zahal!

I've had my VZ2008 for a couple months now and I'm still fairly impressed. It's light, accurate and very handy. I've got a bakers dozen mags and its been 100% reliable with all of 'em (at least the first and last five rounds in each mag, I haven't emptied all of 'em top to bottom yet).

My only complaint is the barrel, not the finish (it's excellent) or the lack of chrome lining (I've got a couple Yugo 59/66's and never had a problem).
BUT WHY DID THEY PUT A !#$%&*?%$@ .308 bore in this thing?
I slugged it and sure enough, four grooves, measuring .308 across the lands.
I know Ruger did it with the Mini 30 when they first produced it, but they eventually sobered up!
Besides, it was their first weapon in 7.62x39.

Century really should have known better, they've sold a couple of 7.62x39 rifles over the years.

It probably shouldn't bother me so much, I've read that "some" of the VZ2008's were made with .308 bores, but I got mine new, IN LATE 2013! I thought they'd changed to a barrel that was actually DESIGNED to shoot 7.62x39.

It shoots well with the factory ammo I've tried in it, but I've got a bunch of handloads that I made up using 147 grain, steel jacket, steel core, Czech light ball .311 bullets and there's no way I'm gonna trust my face behind those.

On the plus side, there's lots of cheap .308 bullets out there. I just hate to have to segregate my ammo supplies for "beater" rifles.

If I can't get the grooves on this thing cut deeper for a reasonable price, I'll probably sell it and get a Czechpoint.

I really love this design, even though its made my AK's feel like bent up crowbars.

 

[Maverick223]

I looked on Czechpoint's website but couldn't fond any of the floorplates you referred to. I also did a couple of web searches and had no better luck.

I've thought about cutting one of my 30's down and trying to bend out new tabs to fit the old floorplate, but I've read that the aluminum is tempered so hard that it'll crack unless you anneal it and then re-temper when you have everything fitted.

I'm pretty decent with projects, but that sounds to me like I'd probably end up with a puddle of aluminum slag.

If you've got extra floorplates in stock I might need your assistance with this one in a month or two.

Sure enough; it appears that those 10-rnd double-stack floorplates are no longer for sale at Czechpoint (which, to the best of my knowledge, is the only place that carried them). I would e-mail Dan ([email protected]) and ask if they have any you can purchase (beg if you have to!). If that fails you could purchase complete 10-rnd. magazines just for the floorplate, but that would be a waste, and more importantly cost a fortune (and it already isn't terribly cheap to convert them). Unfortunately I haven't any that I'm willing to part with (anyone need any original Czech Al. floorplates?), and honestly would like to have a few more myself.

If all else fails I will go back into the shop and see if I can work up an entirely new design that might work using parts that are fairly simple to fabricate or (if possible) ones that can be purchased off the shelf. Although I haven't broken one, the Czechpoint floorplate design doesn't inspire a lot of confidence anyway (it's plastic, and doesn't feel particularly sturdy), so if I can figure out something different I think it would be an improvement.

 

[barnbwt]

Surely those floorplates aren't so complicated they can't be cut from sheet metal? Aren't they flat with a square hole, two straight U-bends on the sides and a bent tab at the rear? Sounds easy enough for someone with some tin snips and something to use as an anvil

"Did you convert the drum yourself or buy it already converted? I wouldn't mind trying to convert one of my $59 Romanian's, but no way I'm gonna shell out the amount of dough they're asking for on Zahal!"
I bought mine used, but I believe it was a Bonesteel conversion of a Chinese 75rnd drum since I think he (Obiwanbonjovi) was the only one doing them until recently. It still tries to nose-dive rounds occasionally, but it's no longer so obnoxious that it precludes range fun anymore (thus, I've opted to live with it for now )

TCB

 

[Maverick223]

Surely those floorplates aren't so complicated they can't be cut from sheet metal? Aren't they flat with a square hole, two straight U-bends on the sides and a bent tab at the rear? Sounds easy enough for someone with some tin snips and something to use as an anvil

They aren't any more complicated than you describe, but IME making small parts, with a reasonably high tolerance, out of sheetmetal isn't the easiest task to accomplish. Perhaps I'm just not good at it, or haven't the equipment to make the task less difficult, but personally I would rather mill the part out of aluminum. Speaking of which, I might just give that a try when I have a little free time to devote to the project.

 

[ifit]

Swampman, your the only person I know of who actually slugged the latest version vz2008 and confirmed it is actually .308 thank you, I had one of the first batches of vz2008s which I slugged the bore...308. Ever since I compared it to my cz USA vz58, there was more of a kick on the 2008 enough for it to hit my cheek bone compared to my cz USA vz58 which It never done this.

 

[barnbwt]

I thought some (also incompetent) company was making their 7.62x39 with .308 diameter bullets, though?

TCB

 

[Swampman]

Does anyone have a link to a reliable source that has information on the relative action strength of the VZ58 vs the SKS and AK?

While I'm sure that all three actions are adequately strong for any "in spec" factory ammunition, I do have a couple of "AK only", standard loads that I wouldn't shoot through my SKS's with any regularity, I did however, shoot them in the SKS's while developing the loads.

There's no way that I'd ever blithely fire them off in a VZ without doing a full work-up in that particular rifle either, but to be perfectly blunt, the VZ locking system seems a little complicated and not quite as strong as that of the SKS, not to mention the rotating bolt of the AK.

I'm fully aware that outward appearances can be deceiving, that's why I'm interested in finding some reputable information on both relative and absolute action strength of the VZ58 rifle.

I'd also love to see anything comparing the original VZ58 with currently produced versions, both Czech and Century, but I'm not holding out much hope for that.
It would require testing a fairly large sample of each to destruction and I can't imagine finding an unbiased source that'd be willing to lay out the cash to do it.

 

[barnbwt]

There was a prototype 308 VZ, but I'm certain its locking lugs were a bit beefier. The limiting factor is lug contact area, and the VZ is a bit smaller than an AK there. However, the lugs are much closer to the breech than the SKS, so the action is more rigid at any stress level (though the AKs are closer still). With 1/16" or so wider lugs and recesses in the rails, I am confident 308 could be an option. But I don't know that anyone's done destructive testing on VZs to ddetermine their margins. I'd work up loads slowly.

The mechanism isn't that complicated, and even if so, it doesn't really how strong the breech is. Realize the VZ is significantly lighter than the AK, with smaller stocks, so your hot loads will hurt more. I'd get a UK59 if you want a VZ in a heavier caliber (x54 belted )

TCB

 

[Maverick223]

Swampman, I'm not privy to any destructive testing data, but from a visual analysis of all three actions (at the same time, but not here & now b/c I do not currently own an SKS) I would say that the VZ.58 is likely about the same strength (perhaps a bit stronger, but not markedly) as the SKS, though I'd be surprised if the barrel didn't let go first, as it's fairly svelte. I can't say much good about the AK platform, but it does have a quite large bolt that would be very hard to match. If you have AK only loads, I would not suggest using them in the VZ without meticulously working up the loads. Additionally, depending upon the burn rate of the powder chosen (which I doubt is out of line, but deserves mention nonetheless) you could get the rifle out of time with the stronger rounds.

 

[Swampman]

I thought it over and after checking my stash of .308 bullets, I've decided to keep my VZ2008 and its .308 bore without modification.

In the back of a cabinet in the reloading shed I found a large stock of old .308, Sierra 135 grain Single Shot Pistol bullets I purchased for $5/100 back when they were discontinued that I'd forgotten about.

Also some ATK manufactured MK319 mod 0, 130 grain "Barrier Blind" projectiles.

I've also got a couple of thousand 140 grain Nosler Custom Competition bullets designed for the .30 Remington AR cartridge.

If life gives you lemons, you might as well make lemonade!

Besides, I've been unable to find much in the way of .310/.311 bullets lately anyway.

 

[barnbwt]

I posited a while back about the potential for a belt-fed VZ58; turns out the Czechs did it already. The UK59 Universal Machine Gun;


I bought a parts kit online a week or so back, and it arrived yesterday for me to take a good look at; it's like the blessed offspring of a BREN and a VZ58, the two most brilliant innovations of Czech weapons design.

Check out the bolt comparison pictures to a VZ I took; nearly identical, and not scaled up all that much for a heavy 7.62x54R. Also see the locking lugs; they are about doubled in surface area where they contact the receiver, though that's for a full-auto open bolt set up (strong enough to handle all sorts of abuse, and operate with the lugs not quite seated fully). I believe a 308 VZ is a possibility from a parts kit. The receiver would be made from the remnants of the front and rear sections. New sheet metal sides and rails would join them back together, just like the Hellbox Armory hybrid receiver concept, only you'd use stretched designs which lengthen the magwell, make the lugs a bit thicker, and modify raceways a bit to allow for lugs that are a bit wider. Open up the face of the bolt a tad and tweak the extractor. The only difficult part to fab up would be a new locking piece, and that can't be terribly bad for even a manual mill.

FWIW, I've never heard of "AK-only" loads, I don't recall ever hearing that action is substantially stronger than other 7.62x39s. I would like to compare an AK bolt head's lug area to a VZ's some time, just to see how those stack up to each other.

TCB

 

[Maverick223]

Also some ATK manufactured MK319 mod 0, 130 grain "Barrier Blind" projectiles.

Let me know if you want to unload some of these. I've not had the opportunity to try any and I'd like to see how they perform (in a '06 or .300WM, not the VZ) if you have any you'd like to part with.

FWIW, I've never heard of "AK-only" loads, I don't recall ever hearing that action is substantially stronger than other 7.62x39s.

I haven't either, but the lock-up on an AK is a fair bit stronger than most autoloaders (it should be noted that most bolt actions would be quite a bit stronger than either). Partially due to the large locking lugs and partially due to them locking into lug seats in a heavy trunion that is positioned about as far forward as possible (technically the sheet-metal receiver isn't necessary for the locking operation). That said, I'm not saying the VZ isn't strong enough to withstand stout loads, just that the AK is theoretically stronger in this respect.

 

[Bohemus]

Interesting video.
You have to cope with Hungarian language though..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUroiZO8dFQ#t=349

 

[Bohemus]

Been testing vz.58 with original bipod, it moves impact point 30 cm (1 feet) upwards at 100 m.
Maybe it could compensate the bullet drop once take it up to 300 m :-D

 

[Maverick223]

Bohemus, that's a heck of a lot of difference. I think I would look for something that mounted aft of the gas block to improve the rigidity and help accuracy.

 

[Bohemus]

Maverick223: I dont really care - the bipod is to high for shooting off the table anyway and i have yet to try it in prone position at longer distances..
I can mount bipod on a handguard if i ever want.

Vz.58 would be better off with heavy barrell though. I once tried vz.58 with heavy 20" barrel - that was some nice recoilless shooting

 

[Maverick223]

It's nice to have the option of mounting it in different locations, but I didn't realize that it was fixed (I thought, like some other bipods, you would be able to lower it by changing the angle)...it certainly appears to be at a height that would limit it's use for most any shooting position.

As someone that values the VZ largely due to the svelte size and weight, I don't think I would want the added length or weight of a 20in. heavy bbl. That having been said, IIRC that is a DMR variant so both the length and weight would be welcome as long as it performed at distance. I believe it would make for a great 5.56x45mm target/varmint build.

 

[barnbwt]

Slap a drum on it and you've got a miniature RPK

TCB

 

[Bohemus]

Thats the one i tried some time ago.. sweet shooter.


barnbwt: Ive tried drum but without bipod - quite funn, but I would have to add watercooling system..

 

[barnbwt]

You're killin' me Bohemus ...

I will say that is an anteater barrel if ever I saw one. Somehow still looks like it'd be a compact, and dare I say "handy" rifle despite the ~24" tube+brake on there?

I really wish someone would make one of these up on a stretched receiver with a UK59 bolt body in 308

TCB

 

[Maverick223]

Oh, wow, that does look pretty nifty when you picture it like that.

 

[Bohemus]

New accesories coming for for vz.58 every day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--a5E6fA6jE



http://www.rrarms.cz/kryt_zaveru.htm
+Concept of "free floating" forearm

 

[goon]

On the strength of the AK vs the VZ, wasn't the VZ originally designed to use the slightly more powerful 7.62x45 round?

(Yes, I meant 7.62x45, not 7.62x54.)

Maybe I'm thinking of a different VZ...