W231 No longer at Cabelas

[Pietro Beretta]

So, I have been trying to get into the reloading game for awhile, I just got everything set up and was hoping to get my hands on W231 or HP38 for reloading .45.

I have a Cabelas near me, and have checked the inventory for W231 for over a month and its never been in stock at my local store, only available to ship.

Today, W231 is no longer listed on Cabela's Website, GONE!

 

[LiveLife]

Midsouth has HP-38 $18.91/1 lb - http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/00034P381/Hodgdon-HP38-Smokeless-Powder-1-Lb

Recob's has HP-38 $19.79/1 lb - http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/4,263.html

Widener's has HP-38 $19.90/1 lb - https://www.wideners.com/reloading-supplies/gunpowder/gunpowder-brand/hodgdon-powder

< PM sent >

 

[bbqreloader]

Welcome to the wonderful world of reloading. By the time I started to reload, a couple of powders I thought about had dissappeared or I just couldn't find. Everything that I have read so far, sure someone will either confirm or deny, is that Hodgdon owns the licensing to Winchester. So HP38 is the same as 231, according to all the load manuals I have. HP38 gets dumped onto the market one week and gone the next, if not sooner.
Start looking at what powders are available and if you can use those powders in any other caliber you may load, i.e. I load 9, 40, 45, so HS6 and Universal I can use in all 3, so at some point I will use that 1lb of powder up.
Good luck!

 

[LiveLife]

Yes, Hodgdon obtained license from Winchester in 2006 and HP-38 became same as W231 and load data changed to show same exact powder charges, velocities and pressures. Hodgdon customer service has repeatedly verified this to be true - https://www.hodgdon.com/history.html

In this thread we discussed what powders are exactly the same and what are comparable - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=10167751#post10167751

Same exact powders (Same published load data, powder burn rate, charge weight and volume):

- W231 and HP-38
- HS-6 and W540
- HS-7 and W571
- W296 and H110
- RL15 and Norma 203B
- Accurate 2230 and Ramshot X-Terminator
- Accurate 2520 and Ramshot Wild Boar
- W760 and H414

 

[X-Ring]

is that Hodgdon owns the licensing to Winchester.

Hodgdon obtained license from Winchester in 2006

Not exactly, but sort of. Winchester exist in name only. Olin Corp owns the name and manufactures the ammunition and primers. Hodgdon packages and distributes the powder line. FNH manufactures the firearms. In both cases Olin still gets a fee for using the name. This explains the higher cost of Winchester powders over Hodgdon powders. Hodgdon will no longer state HP38 and W231 are the same, likely because Olin complains they are undermining Winchester sales..

 

[JimKirk]

Neither Hodgdon nor Winchester makes W231 or HP 38 ... both are made by General Dynamics' St. Marks powder company in Crawfordville FL ... Hodgdon does have a license to market the Winchester powders .... I am sure for a fee ....

 

[LiveLife]

This is from Hodgdon's website - https://www.hodgdon.com/history.html

In March 2006, Hodgdon Powder Company and Winchester Ammunition announced that Winchester branded reloading powders would be licensed to Hodgdon.

Regardless who makes powders for Winchester, Hodgdon is licensed to package W231 in HP-38 containers and sell for less.

 

[SARuger]

We have plenty of 231 on the shelves around here. Can't find HP-38 anywhere. I scored a pound of Bullseye and 9oz of Trail Boss today. The shop i went to had 4# of Bullseye and about 20# of 231.

Unique is hard as heck to find now

 

[bluetopper]

They are phasing the production of 231, HP38 out......for good. When the last will be made I do not know, but its days are numbered.

 

[dragon813gt]

They are phasing the production of 231, HP38 out......for good. When the last will be made I do not know, but its days are numbered.

Please provide written proof from either Hodgdon or St. Marks. This topic comes up quite often but no proof has ever been presented. Unlike the same powder topic where Hodgdon has released public statements about it.

 

[rondog]

I just picked up two lbs. of 231 at my local Cabela's last week. But that's the first I'd seen in years.

 

[lauderdale]

OH heck. It must be a mind set on the W231/HP38 or how it meters?

 

[LiveLife]

W231/HP-38 has characteristics other powders lack:

- Meters within .1 gr variance

- Coating lubricates Pro Auto Disk wiper/disk surfaces for consistency and longer service

- Drops consistently down to 2 gr in PAD with $1 mod for 380Auto loads

- Dense granules lessens compressing of powder charge if bullet setback occurs

- Produces accurate target loads down to mid range load data and for 40S&W down to start charge using 180 gr bullet with 9mm like recoil

- Lower pressure 40S&W loads don't overly expand/bulge the brass

While I tried similar burn rate powders like N320, Green Dot, Titegroup, etc., no other powder has the same traits and I keep using W231/HP-38 as my reference powder for 380Auto/9mm/40S&W/45ACP/45 Colt

 

[lauderdale]

Oh I know have 2 1lbrs. left but did find some cfe pistol today. cfe on the JR carbine im going to check it out in .45. later in /.380. Couldn't get chrono out t-day under water!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Why do every one of these W231/HP-38 devolve into a battle of who can say the same thing in a different way? What I'd the difference if Hodgdon acquired the rights to or owns distribution rights of Winchester Powders?

The OP seems to be saying W231 will no longer be available from Cabelas but from what I have seen unless it's in stock Cabelas doesn't list it. When they get more it will be back on the site, that's it...

 

[Average Joe]

It comes and goes, always have a list handy when you go to the store for any alternate powders that you can use.

 

[lauderdale]

My fault I should'nt have said it must be a mind set. Sorry Guys.

 

[bocefus78]

Archangel nailed it. Not on website simply means out of stock, not gone for good.

Someone on here emailed hodgdon and got a response saying it was not being phased out.

 

[Candyman87]

I've been seeing 231 and HP-38 on shelves. Everywhere but Cabela's lately.

And missing from the site? Just out of stock. They still carry it.

 

[higgite]

Today, W231 is no longer listed on Cabela's Website...

Neither are Unique, Bullseye, AA#2 and many more.

 

[ericuda]

I wish they would quit making tin foil in the shape of a hat.

 

[FROGO207]

^^^^^^ AMEN

 

[LiveLife]

Deciding whether to keep making the popular W231 is entirely up to Olin/Winchester.

If Olin/Winchester ever decides to stop making W231, I am quite certain they will find a substitute before discontinuing W231 or they will lose a large market share (Money talks, right?). Perhaps they will call it "New formulation W231" like what Alliant did with "Cleaner burning Unique".

So if Olin/Winchester comes up with a new formulation W231 that is easier to manufacture by St. Marks, Hodgdon will simply use the new formulation replacement as HP-38 under license with Winchester.

But of course, we have not seen/heard anything definite so we'll keep seeing W231/HP-38 on the LGS shelves and we will use them until we see/hear otherwise.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Maybe W231 v2.0 lol

 

[LiveLife]

You know, powder formulations have changed over the years for some powders and we kept reloading away. Some have reported lot to lot variations and who knows, may be it was formulation change.

We at least know that Unique and Green Dot formulations changed when they went to "Cleaner burning" formulations. And I can tell you that Promo used to look like Red Dot with larger round flakes and now they are mostly round flakes without crinkly Red Dot flakes so to me, Promo formulations has changed.

If there is W231/HP-38 version 2.0, I would be fine as long as the powder characteristics remain same/similar.