WA state CCW friendly?

[ExAgoradzo]

Is it easy to legally carry in the state of Washington?

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Yes, For the most part I believe that Washington State is still a shall issue State. Once you have your permit I believe you can buy a pistol and not wait any mandatory time.

 

[acdodd]

Washington is a shall issue state.
I think they were the first shall issue but I could be wrong.
Permits don't take long to get and there is no test or training requirements.
It is also an open carry state but there are places that it's a big hassle.

Once you have your permit I believe you can buy a pistol and not wait any mandatory time.

That is correct.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

That's cool that someone from Maryland knows the laws in the opposite side of the country!

Thanks both.

 

[hermannr]

Actually, WA went to "shall issue" CPL permit in 1961. A step backwards, before that you did not need a permit to conceal. Still do not need a permit to OC..

OC loaded is legal most everywhere, but in a vehicle. You need the CPL to carry loaded in a vehicle. Regulations are at RCW 9.41

Oh, yes, the earlier comment is correct. If you have a CPL there is no wait. No CPL, 3 day wait.

 

[Chuck Dye]

Washington honors Utah's permits. Utah permits are obtainable by mail if you find a Utah certified instructor (easily done here in Oregon.) My UT permit took a little extra time as I had to point out that, born in the Panama Canal Zone in 1951, I am a native born citizen, the zone being US territory at the time. Even with the delay I had my card within a month of applying.

Regardless of which state you carry in, it will pay to know the law. Sites such as www.handgunlaw.us are good, but I prefer to also read the actual statutes. For WA laws go to the Revised Code of Washington
and begin in RCW 9.41. The only issue I have encountered is posted alcohol serving establishments that do not obviously qualify for the exclusion. There are other restaurants, so it is not much of a much in my life.

 

[kd7nqb]

I recently moved from Oregon to Washington and my Washington application was mighty easy. Hardest part was the 90min wait in line. But I had my permit back in the mail in a week.

 

[FourTeeFive]

As others have said, Washington is a "shall issue" state. I've found it very easy to get a CPL in this state. Everyone throughout the process has always been very professional and friendly. As compared to one state I lived in where the local police officer was really trying his best NOT to allow me to have a license.

 

[NavyLCDR]

The only issue I have encountered is posted alcohol serving establishments that do not obviously qualify for the exclusion.

You can legally ignore the signs and carry past them. It is illegal to carry into a portion of an establishment that is designated as over 21 only by the liquor control board. The sign is merely a notification...not the prohibition itself, so if the sign is posted in the wrong place, it means nothing (like the sign might be at the entrance to the entire restaurant because there is a bar area in the restaurant - but only the bar area would be off limits.) Liquor stores are NOT over 21 only in Washington, therefore carrying inside a liquor store is not prohibited.

We've actually had an open carry get together in an establishment that was posted with the liquor control board signs, but the 21 and over restriction did not go into effect until 8:00 or 9:00 pm.

Also, no loaded long guns in vehicles, with or without a CPL, due to hunting regulations.

Despite what some may think, Washington is very open carry friendly. State preemption prevents local governments/LEO agencies from regulating firearms carrying and possession more restrictive than state law anyway. I've open carried getting my state ID card, registering vehicles, obtaining an accident report from the state police and in SEATAC International Airport picking up my stepdaughter. With a CPL you can lawfully carry onto school property when picking up or dropping off students.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

So, no loaded carry in a vehicle. I assume this means that with a CPL you can carry on your person, you just can't keep a loaded gun in your car. If I am open carrying I will also have a loaded weapon in my car: or do I have to unload the cylinder each time I get in/out.
I guess I have to wait till I move there and read the law myself. This sounds like gov bureaucratic non-sense.

 

[Mainsail]

^^^ Yes, you can carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle IF you have a WA CPL or a recognized out of state permit/license. You can never carry a loaded long gun in a vehicle (except handicapped hunters I think).

 

[NavyLCDR]

No need to wait until you move to Washington to read the laws:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3385&d=1280151535

And the actual statutes:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41

Specifically, 9.41.050 (how you can carry) and 9.41.300 (where you are prohibited from carrying), 9.41.280 (carrying on school property).

 

[V1ROT8]

Amen and thank you Navy LCDR.

 

[TCOV]

If you have a concealed handgun permit in WA the waiting period for a purchase from an ffl is waived unless the background check comes back DELAYED or DENIED. Then you have to wait for a PROCEED call which may take up to three business days or file an appeal on the denial. It happens often as the answer is at the whim of the federal contract employee taking the call.

 

[NavyLCDR]

On the purchase of a handgun in Washington, Washington has two laws, the Federal NICS law and state law RCW 9.41.090.

A person with a WA CPL falls under the background check of the Federal NCIS law only - just like buying a gun in most other states. The person either gets a "PROCEED" from NICS and walks out with their gun. or The person gets a "DELAYED" from NICS - if they don't get a "PROCEED" or "DENIED" in three business days, the FFL may, not must, proceed with the sale and deliver the handgun. or The person gets a "DENIED" from NICS and the person must file an appeal.

In any case, the Washington State Pistol Transfer form is still completed by the FFL and the form is sent to the local LEO agency and to the state Department of Licensing. The state Department of Licensing enters the sale of the handgun into their database which links the serial number of the handgun to the buyer's name, driver's license number and CPL number.

A person without a WA CPL not only falls under the Federal background check requirement, but also must pass a background check completed by local LEO. The same Washington State Pistol Transfer form is completed and sent to local LEO. The same NICS check is done. But this time the dealer must hold the handgun, regardless of receiving a NICS "PROCEED" or "DELAY" for 5 working days. The loca lLEO uses the info on the WA State Pistol Transfer form to perform a state background check, including mental health records. Once 5 working days has elapsed, the dealer may deliver the handgun unless, within that 5 days, the local LEO denies the sale.

After the 5 days and the handgun is delivered, the WA State Pistol Transfer form is sent to the Department of Licensing who enters the sale into their database, linking the serial number of the gun to the buyer's name and driver's license number. If they ever get a CPL in the future, their CPL will then also be linked to their driver's license number and all the handguns they have already purchased.

Private handgun sales may OPTIONALLY be reported on a private pistol sale report form to the Washington Department of Licensing so they can update their database.

 

[TCOV]

So it seems that there is handgun registration at the state level in WA for a transaction through a ffl. If that handgun is later sold or transfered through a ffl in WA or another state are the records updated or is it still registered to your name in WA? How would state records know to update? Does local LE keep records? My local ffl doesn't know the answer to these questions.

 

[Buck Snort]

ExAgoradzo wrote: "This sounds like gov bureaucratic non-sense."

Gee Ex, do you really believe such a thing exists?

 

[NavyLCDR]

So it seems that there is handgun registration at the state level in WA for a transaction through a ffl.

Just ask the WA Department of Licensing and they will tell you it is not handgun registration, it is merely a database of who has bought which handguns from FFLs in WA state that they happen to make available for law enforcement use in accordance with RCW 9.41.129 and RCW 42.56.240(4).

If that handgun is later sold or transfered through a ffl in WA or another state are the records updated or is it still registered to your name in WA?

FFL in WA - the database will be updated to show the new purchaser because a WA State Pistol Transfer Form is required to be completed and filed. FFL outside the state of WA or private sale - the database will NOT be updated, and the original purchaser will remain listed in the database, unless the OPTIONAL WA State Pistol Transfer Form is completed and filed.

How would state records know to update?

Filing the WA State Pistol Transfer Form.

Does local LE keep records?

According to RCW 9.41.090, "The chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county shall retain or destroy applications to purchase a pistol in accordance with the requirements of 18 U.S.C. Sec. 922."

18 USC 922 says this:

(B) Unless the chief law enforcement officer to whom a statement is transmitted under paragraph (1)(A)(i)(IV) determines that a transaction would violate Federal, State, or local law—
(i) the officer shall, within 20 business days after the date the transferee made the statement on the basis of which the notice was provided, destroy the statement, any record containing information derived from the statement, and any record created as a result of the notice required by paragraph (1)(A)(i)(III);
(ii) the information contained in the statement shall not be conveyed to any person except a person who has a need to know in order to carry out this subsection; and
(iii) the information contained in the statement shall not be used for any purpose other than to carry out this subsection.

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My local ffl doesn't know the answer to these questions.

They must not have as much time on their hands to read the law as I have.

 

[TCOV]

Thanks Navy, I knew you would have the answers.

 

[Greg528iT]

A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(i) ... on the licensee's person.... ??????? to me this sorta reads like, that I could NOT take out of my waist band (to not sit on) and put in a holster under the seat.

 

[hermannr]

You are reading it wrong. look at the different statements:

If you have a loaded pistol in a vehicle you must have a permit, and the permit must be on you. 1: The pistol can be on you, 2: or in the vehicle with you while you are with it. 3: If you leave the pistol in the vehicle, you must put the pistol out of sight. three different statements

Remember also, No loaded LONG GUNS, permit or no permit unless you are a disabled hunter and you have a disabled hunting license...that is F&W requlations not concealed weapon regulations. You can carry a loaded pistol in a vehicle if you have a concealed pistol license.

 

[pintler]

to me this sorta reads like, that I could NOT take out of my waist band (to not sit on) and put in a holster under the seat.

My sense is that they are trying to prohibit e.g. just putting a gun in the glovebox and leaving it there all the time. You can carry (on your person), and you can store the gun in the car while e.g. going somewhere where you can't take the gun, but you can't just leave it in the glovebox forever.

I don't know of any case law, but I have read an opinion from the WA Atty General's office about whether a woman with a CPL can carry in her purse in the car (the answer was yes, a purse is 'on your person').

I'm not sure of the intent, but my guess is 1)they don't want routine glovebox carry, because of thefts during car prowls etc, but 2)you must give people an option if they are going into an area where guns are forbidden, and this is the compromise they came up with.

 

[NavyLCDR]

My sense is that they are trying to prohibit e.g. just putting a gun in the glovebox and leaving it there all the time. You can carry (on your person), and you can store the gun in the car while e.g. going somewhere where you can't take the gun, but you can't just leave it in the glovebox forever.

If a CPL holder puts a loaded handgun in the glove box and leaves it there all the time, everything is perfectly legal in Washington State until a person without a CPL is in the vehicle alone with the loaded handgun.

RCW 9.40.050:
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

When the person possessing the CPL places the gun in glovebox, and the person possessing the CPL is in the vehicle, they meet requirement (ii) above. When the gun is left in the glovebox and the person possessing the CPL leaves the vehicle and locks it, they meet requirement (iii) above. When the gun is worn on the person by the person possessing the CPL, they meet requirement (i) above.

Only one of the three requirements above must be met at any time because of the "or" between requirements (i), (ii), OR (iii).

 

[ExAgoradzo]

No way Buck, "Gee Ex, do you really believe such a thing exists?"

Especially since currently we live in the same state of confusion...wait, California...no, I was right...

 

[Big_John1961]

As liberal as this state is, it's remarkably easy to get a concealed pistol permit. I just renewed mine and it took all of 15 minutes.