http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg148-e.htmI have a Walther PP Super that uses 9x18 Police/Ultra rounds (very scarce). Does anyone know where I can buy these rounds. They are not the 9x18 Makarov.
thanks
glenn
thanks
glenn
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Walther PP Super
- Thread starter glc12355
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Dr.magnum
Member
Geco makes ammo for it. The local shop has one that they traded for at a gun show thinking it was 9x18Mak. I think he got the ammo from CDNN, or SOG. He charges $14 for a box of fifty, so it's not too expensive. If you get ammo for it, give us a range report. He hasn't been able to sell his and it keeps tempting me.
Southern Ohio Gun
Last page of their flyer near the bottom, usually.
Neat looking pistol. I suspect there are conversion kits out there somewhere, but haven't seen any advertised.
Last page of their flyer near the bottom, usually.
Neat looking pistol. I suspect there are conversion kits out there somewhere, but haven't seen any advertised.
denfoote
Member
Rotsa ruck Rorge!!!!
As Astro would say!!
Old Western Scrounger ain't got any!!!
I don't know where else to look!!
The PP Super is an interesting gun. To bad the project failed!! I understand the Ultra project was started before WW-II, but was shelved because of the war. During that time, the 9mm Para assumed dominance. By the time Walther was able to complete it, the concept was obsolete!! Anyway, the Soviets took it, ran with it, and perfected it in the form of Pistolet Makarova. My advice is to honorably retire your Super and get a Makarov!!
As Astro would say!!
Old Western Scrounger ain't got any!!!
I don't know where else to look!!
The PP Super is an interesting gun. To bad the project failed!! I understand the Ultra project was started before WW-II, but was shelved because of the war. During that time, the 9mm Para assumed dominance. By the time Walther was able to complete it, the concept was obsolete!! Anyway, the Soviets took it, ran with it, and perfected it in the form of Pistolet Makarova. My advice is to honorably retire your Super and get a Makarov!!
Jehzsa
Member
SOG sells Geco on a regular basis. Only in their flyer, not to be found on their website. Presently selling for $8.00/50 +-. Call them.
Also available is Fiocchi. But cost rises exponentially to $19.99/50. And Fiocchi will only give you about 20 fps more than Geco. Not really worth it at that price.
Hirtenberger also makes it. But it is not presently available in the US.
Btw, it's my favorite cartridge.
Also available is Fiocchi. But cost rises exponentially to $19.99/50. And Fiocchi will only give you about 20 fps more than Geco. Not really worth it at that price.
Hirtenberger also makes it. But it is not presently available in the US.
Btw, it's my favorite cartridge.
Walther PP Super info
This pistol actually came into existence in 1972 and was dropped in 1979, it was manufactured in West Germany before the Wall fell, here a link to info on this pistol(http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg148-e.htm)
Thanks for your reply.
denfoote said:
This pistol actually came into existence in 1972 and was dropped in 1979, it was manufactured in West Germany before the Wall fell, here a link to info on this pistol(http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg148-e.htm)
Thanks for your reply.
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Jehzsa
Member
The first pistol chambered in 9x18 Ultra was developed in 1935-1936 as a combined effort of Gustav Genschow and Walther. It used the platform of a Walther PP. The project was probably abandoned because of its excessive recoil which made it unacceptably inaccurate for most. Anyone who has shot Hirtenberger .380 FMJ through a Walther PP is keenly aware of this.
Jim Watson
Member
I have never been able to find the specs on the 1935 9mm Ultra meant for the Luftwaffe before H. Goering decided on Kreighoff Lugers.
I am of the impression that is is a shortened 9mm P while the 1970s 9mm Police is a lengthened .380 ACP. Have you got details?
I am of the impression that is is a shortened 9mm P while the 1970s 9mm Police is a lengthened .380 ACP. Have you got details?
Jehzsa
Member
Hello Jim,
Jose (Hernandez-Sosa) here. Haven't read about you since the old Walther PP & PPK forum. Glad to know you're fine.
My guess is as good as anybody elses. However, I do agree with you that if a choice has to be made, the shortened 9 Luger makes more sense than the overstretched 9mm K. If they were looking for more umpphh in a compact package, it seems the logical thing to do. Most of us have seen the unacknowledged diagram that purports to detail the specs of the 1936(?) Ultra cartridge. See, http://makarov.com/graphics/9mmcases.jpg
Problem is, no one has ever acknowledged fathering it. It seems to be one of those things that suddenly appear out-of-the-blue and then remains as an icon waiting for validation. One of two possibilities exist with regard to the 1935-1936 specs. Either the Nazis burned all its relevant documentation, which they were fond of doing at the end of WW2( just ask Herrn Marschall) or the Soviets absconded it from the world(perhaps thinking that it was the elusive 'Vengeance Weapon Drei'). I have the feeling that it was turned to ashes, but then again my guess is as good as anyones.
This is how I feel about it. The specs of the 1935-1936 9x18 Ultra cartridge are the same as the post-war 9x18 Ultra cartridge. Only because there's so much that can be done for a midway round between the 9x17 and the 9x19. And Geco and Walther were the ones who first came up with it, on both counts. Then apparently, Benelli, Sig, Tanfoglio and Mauser(Renato Gamba) in that order, all late 70s to early 80s. Therefore, the post-war 9x18 Ultra is the same cartridge as the 9x18 Police. Geco and Hirtenberger call it Ultra. Fiocchi calls it Police. Semantics. Geco and Hirtenberger call the bullet a flat nose. Fiocchi calls it a truncated cone. Semantics again. Fiocchi probably used the term merely as a selling point. A marketing strategy that takes advantage of the fact that it was supposed to be the 'wunder' police cartridge when it first came out post-war. Until groups like Baader-Meinhof entered the scene.
And no, I do think the Soviets did not copy from the Ultra to come up with the Makarov round. Then again, there's just so much that can be done with a midway round between 9x17 and 9x19. Further, no one has really explained the why of a .363 bullet in the Mak as opposed to a .355 in the 9 Luger family. Looks to me that they came up with it all on their own. A testament to Mr. Semin's ingenuity. Just don't know of any other round using a .363 bullet.
Jose (Hernandez-Sosa) here. Haven't read about you since the old Walther PP & PPK forum. Glad to know you're fine.
My guess is as good as anybody elses. However, I do agree with you that if a choice has to be made, the shortened 9 Luger makes more sense than the overstretched 9mm K. If they were looking for more umpphh in a compact package, it seems the logical thing to do. Most of us have seen the unacknowledged diagram that purports to detail the specs of the 1936(?) Ultra cartridge. See, http://makarov.com/graphics/9mmcases.jpg
Problem is, no one has ever acknowledged fathering it. It seems to be one of those things that suddenly appear out-of-the-blue and then remains as an icon waiting for validation. One of two possibilities exist with regard to the 1935-1936 specs. Either the Nazis burned all its relevant documentation, which they were fond of doing at the end of WW2( just ask Herrn Marschall) or the Soviets absconded it from the world(perhaps thinking that it was the elusive 'Vengeance Weapon Drei'). I have the feeling that it was turned to ashes, but then again my guess is as good as anyones.
This is how I feel about it. The specs of the 1935-1936 9x18 Ultra cartridge are the same as the post-war 9x18 Ultra cartridge. Only because there's so much that can be done for a midway round between the 9x17 and the 9x19. And Geco and Walther were the ones who first came up with it, on both counts. Then apparently, Benelli, Sig, Tanfoglio and Mauser(Renato Gamba) in that order, all late 70s to early 80s. Therefore, the post-war 9x18 Ultra is the same cartridge as the 9x18 Police. Geco and Hirtenberger call it Ultra. Fiocchi calls it Police. Semantics. Geco and Hirtenberger call the bullet a flat nose. Fiocchi calls it a truncated cone. Semantics again. Fiocchi probably used the term merely as a selling point. A marketing strategy that takes advantage of the fact that it was supposed to be the 'wunder' police cartridge when it first came out post-war. Until groups like Baader-Meinhof entered the scene.
And no, I do think the Soviets did not copy from the Ultra to come up with the Makarov round. Then again, there's just so much that can be done with a midway round between 9x17 and 9x19. Further, no one has really explained the why of a .363 bullet in the Mak as opposed to a .355 in the 9 Luger family. Looks to me that they came up with it all on their own. A testament to Mr. Semin's ingenuity. Just don't know of any other round using a .363 bullet.
Jehzsa
Member
Hello cocojo,
Where did you obtain the new 9x18 Ultra brass? I know someone that could fit .355 Silvertips on it for me.
Where did you obtain the new 9x18 Ultra brass? I know someone that could fit .355 Silvertips on it for me.
I don't remember where I got it. I remember getting a flier in the mail and was amased they had it. Brand new brass. I did load up some of it and tried it. I think I used my 380 dies in my 550B dillon. I have to check and see what I have tomorrow. I am at work so I can't check what I have now.
Jehzsa
Member
Thank you, cocojo. A flier? Now that is shocking! I would have never believed it. It's like finding today an ad for a state-of-the-art, brand new 8-track player!
The headstamp will probably give a clue of its source.
The headstamp will probably give a clue of its source.
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