Want to open indoor range, need ideas/advice

[Taurus 617 CCW]

I live in Central Oregon and have wanted to open an indoor shooting range for years. I know its going to be a very expensive endeavor but well worth it. There are no indoor ranges for 200 miles and we would get all the law enforcement contracts, as well as the general public. Does anyone have a resource I could look up on design, funding, consultation, etc? I need to find out a way to fund the construction and get past county red tape. This would be a step in the right direction toward protecting our beloved second amendment. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

One of my associates has a top secret security clearance and guarded the White House for several years. I was informed by him that he may be elligible for federal funding to open up a facility for federal training.

 

[Barrel First]

Beware the EPA...

 

[cidirkona]

I'd say "thick walls" and "don't put your office behind that wall" - but that's just me...

-Colin

 

[nobby]

Your very first stop should be

http://www.rangeinfo.org/

 

[Master Blaster]

Try the NRA, I know they have information on range design and provide liability insurance as well.

 

[Buck Snort]

Take a course in suicide prevention.

 

[WT]

Go for it!

One note ....... we had a local range here. Was doing well, good location, etc. Unfortunately it was in a leased building and when its 10 year lease ran out the building owner had another company in line who was willing to pay lots more than the gunshop owner.

Gunshop went under.

 

[Can'thavenuthingood]

Get a big tablet, sharp pencil and a calculator.
Get a large bottle of Excedrin and Pepto Dismal.
Fire up your computer and go shopping for:

Backstop/Bullet Trap
A building about 15,000 sq.ft. for 24 shooting lanes.
Land for that building.
Census data, demographics are needed.
Electricity, phone, gas and vehicles.
Call insurance company for quotes including workmens comp (40% here).
Go to city/cnty planning office and tell them what you propose (leave your guns at home Bill) bring checkbook (the fat one).

If they haven't located you in a swamp far from your target market you are doing well. If they only take less than $1500 (non-refundable) to look at maybe giving you a nod to proceed, you are doing okay. Chances are the range area is zoned for Heavy commercial and both rifle and handguns are lumped in together as an outdoor affair. You have to pay to get them unlumped and separated. Then you pay to get the official City/County plan amended.

Then you get to wait on approval by the City Council or the County Supervisers. More hoops coming here. Epa questions, environmental impact reports, what about lead poisoning, how about lead disposal.

I'm in California where things like guns aren't tolerated very well by the gov. Though things may change slightly after the actions taken in New Orleans by home and business owners.

On the other had I've heard many Kalifornians are moving to Oregon. Which ones I wonder.

Feds have lotsa money to use for things. You have to qualify in some manner.

Didn't mean to sound so discouraging. Do it, follow it out to a conclusion.

I may come knocking for a job, maybe head brass sweeper upper or trash can dumper outer.

Vick

 

[Jeff Timm]

According to the bloke who did check it out, $6 Million, not counting bribes of all sorts to the local politicos. Then your Business Manager will lease to range out to a sky diver (person who takes risks) giving the owner of the range some insurance/political coverage. Cross reference most indoor ranges I've used.

A new dodge is making the range part of a museum, there is one near Cape Kennedy.

Geoff
Who can't afford to look at the figures, much less think about building one.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I know the N.R.A. offers a seminar for range owners and prospective owners.

 

[Jim Diver]

Get a copy of the range source book from the NRA.

http://materials.nrahq.org/go/product.aspx?productid=AR 14840

 

[redneck2]

Fwiw...

I used to work part-time in a gun shop that had a range. They are grand-fathered in

new ranges have a TON, and I mean a TON of regulations. I'm pretty good friends with a guy that owns a local shop. He is well-heeled (at least by my definition) and was REAL serious about an indoor range.

600k was the number he came up with

at $8 an hour range time, it takes something like 8 million years to get a pay-back

the lefties can't win at the ballot box, so they're slowly eliminating guns thru regulations. This is an example.

 

[hso]

The folks that are saying that the EPA is a problem are wrong. :banghead:

If you have a lead waste recycler come and clean out the traps you don't have a waste. Therefore the DEQ doesn't have a problem with you.

If you have less than 20 lanes you are below the level for an exempt small quantity generator and DEQ doesn't have a problem with you.

If you reuse much of your air, which you have to if you are going to heat and cool and dehumidify, and you install a simple filtration system DEQ doesn't have a problem with you.

If you keep the airborne lead levels down below regulatory limits with the proper mix of filtered and clean makeup air the state OSHA folks don't have any problem with you since your employees aren't exposed at the OSHA action limit for lead.

How do I know this?

My cousin's retarded nephews sister's boss didn't tell me.

I consult for a large indoor range and make sure that they don't run afoul of the regulators. I've challenged folks here that invoked EPA and OSHA to provide any evidence that there were any problems in their personal experience and I've not had one person provide any proof.

 

[OH25shooter]

If it is state-of-the-art, get the small local PD's to rent space for police qualification. One other thing...if guys are screwing around on the firing line...throw their ass OUT! My range barely enforces the common sense safety rules.

 

[Rembrandt]

Better plan on at least a million dollar investment, need to work out a business plan on paper first. This will tell you how much traffic will be needed to meet expenses. Be prepared to work late every evening and weekends....that's when the shooting clientel will want to use it.

Location..location..location is everything, will make the difference whether your investment pays off or goes bust.

 

[Barrel First]

I've challenged folks here that invoked EPA and OSHA to provide any evidence that there were any problems in their personal experience and I've not had one person provide any proof.

You work with an existing range; my comment referred to building one.

 

[hso]

One of the reasons that theres so much environmental information on outdoor ranges is that an indoor range has only 3 environmental regulatory issues. Is it discharging any regulated air. Is it discharging any regulated water. How is it handling it's lead from it's traps/backstops. If the operation isn't a very large indoor range the air discharge is not regulated. If they aren't a very large operation they can't be discharging regulated water. If they use a lead recycler to handle the spent lead in the traps they don't ahve a waste. Instead they have a product that will be reused.

There shouldn't be any environmental regulatory difference between setting up and taking over an operating facility except for legacy issues from the former business.

When the facility we're both familiar with changed hands a new business started. From an environmental regulatory standpoint the new company didn't have any advantage over starting from scratch since the DEQ/EPA only cares about the particular business getting set up (matter of fact they had disadvantages somone who starts without a facility doesn't face since we had to make sure nothing the former operators did would pose an environmental liability). We made sure that all the issues related to air discharges and water and waste were addressed before the new business opened it's doors. When a couple of guys from the Air Quality Board came in the new owners were ready for them and the AQ guys didn't have anything they could hang on to. They asked their questions and got the factual answers consistant with the regulations that had been reviewed and went on their way without any harm.

A problem can occur when the businessman doesn't have anyone that knows the applicatoin of the regulations to the operaton that will be established.They talk with an official who doesn't really understand what the business is going to do (it's not like indoor ranges are common businesses like garages) and the official may not understand how the regs apply much better than the bussinessman. When that happens a lot of "requirements" get cited and people just accept that they have to incur the expenses. Often this isn't the case. The details are where things get resolved and that takes an expert.

OTOH local ordinance officials like you told me about can be extortionists (intentionally and otherwise), but they are not the State environmental folks. Like any opportunistic carrion feeders, if you're prepared for them they'll usually see that and go try their scam with someone less knowledgeable.

If you have any personal experience with the DEQ or EPA charging or citing a gun shop or range please give me the details. If so, was it because the shop disposed of lead or solvent waste improperly? If not, it's nearly impossible for a small indoor range to run afoul of EPA or DEQ.

 

[thereisnospoon]

There is an indoor range here in B'Ham, Alabama called Alabama Training Institute and Pistol Range

www.a;pistol.com


They may be able to give you some pointers, or at the very least you may be able to gain some knowledge from their website.

There was another indoor range here, but it went under after just a year for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was a miscalculation in startup costs.

Hope that helps...

 

[Jim K]

IMHO, insurance is number one. Everything else is probably solvable, but if you can't get a couple of million insurance, give it up. Otherwise, all you need is one idiot who is dumb enough to blow off his own toes but smart enough to hire a good lawyer and you will be broke the rest of your life.

Jim

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

Good stuff guys, I'm getting in touch with the NRA to see what their suggestions are before anything else. If that looks good, I'm going to go to the county and ask what their building codes are and where we can possibly place the facility. After that, I will be talking to my partners about investors/funding. Thanks for the suggestions.