War Baby

[SwampWolf]

It's the gun I toted for four years in the USAF. I used to be able to field strip it in well under a minute almost sixty years ago; don't know where I'd start now . The one issued to me was an Inland Manufacturing variant; wish I had one again.

 

[Ironicaintit]

Those are some nice carbines, fellas.

M1 carbine is in my top 3 all time favorites!

 

[35 Whelen]

I'd "kinda" been wanting a Carbine for the last several years, but not bad enough to actually pursue one. But then earlier this year I ran across a post on another forum about the RTI M1 Carbines and jumped when they had a Father's Day special. I ordered a base model, which was supposed to be an Inland, and to my amazement got one made by Standard Products. It was filthy but cleaned up nicely and shoots quite well.



Next I ran across a screaming deal ($500) on an Iver Johnson commemorative. It was a mess shooting feet to the left at 100 yds. and had all sorts of little bugaboos that had to be dealt with. Then came an Inland from RTI, then another Inland from and individual and finally an early Universal.

I really scratch my head when I read of reliability problems with the Carbine. So long as I'm shooting bullets with RN profiles, I simply have no feeding problems at all.

The .30 Carbine cartridge isn't thought to be a powerful cartridge, yet when compared to modern highly regarded self defense cartridges such as the .327 Federal, it is far more powerful. One only need use a good bullet. I really like the little cartridge because I can use cast bullets in it and run them the same speed as the original load, and they shoot just as well.





I feel 200 yds. is pretty much the maximum range for the platform, but some stretch it further, which is fine!

35W

 

[kBob]

35 Whelen,

are those 116 lead gas checked or plain based?

-kBob

 

[35 Whelen]

35 Whelen,

are those 116 lead gas checked or plain based?

-kBob

They're gas-checked.

35W

 

[kBob]

darn. found a box of plain base from the 1990's in the shop.

-kBob

 

[35 Whelen]

@kBob I've cast/shot quite a few 115 gr. plain base out of my Carbine's that were right around 20 Bhn, roughly the same as commercial cast bullets. I load them over 6.0 grs. of Unique for ~1500 fps and get just a little light leading ahead of the chamber.

35W

 

[kBob]

Thanks! Those did not cycle the action though, did they? still sounds great for paper.

-kBob

 

[35 Whelen]

Thanks! Those did not cycle the action though, did they? still sounds great for paper.

-kBob

Sometimes. At times it'd actually eject the fired round but not pick up a new one. I finally realized that upward pressure from the magazine spring was slowing the movement of the bolt. That is, the more cartridges there are in the magazine, the more pressure there was on the bottom of the bolt as it cycled. As the magazine emptied and the spring relaxed, the rifle was more apt to cycle. I have no doubt that 6.5 grs. of Unique, which is a max load, would cycle the action, I just haven't tried it yet.

35W

 

[kBob]

Thanks again. Maybe I will try a few at 6.2-6.3 and see how it goes.

-kBob

 

[Rodfac]

Great pics of some fine old carbines. I have two...both CMP acquisitions....a Winchester and a Standard Products...the latter won me a 3rd place in the first CMP sponsored Carbine Match at Perry in '06. That issue LC ammo really perked in my Standard...I load for them both, having bought a life-time supply of pulled LC bullets from Jeff Bartlett over in Owensboro, KY. Win 296, 4227, & 2400 all work well with any good 110 gr bullet and give you military muzzle velocities.

They're fun guns, light on recoil, and will make a good transition gun for newer shooters moving into center fire rifle shooting. Just be careful while hand loading and make sure your keep the brass trimmed. A long case can keep the bolt from completely locking resulting in an open bolt discharge...with violent consequences. Excessive wear on the bolt lugs, and failure of the anti-open bolt feature on these 70+ year old guns bears watching. YMMv Rod

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I'd "kinda" been wanting a Carbine for the last several years, but not bad enough to actually pursue one. But then earlier this year I ran across a post on another forum about the RTI M1 Carbines and jumped when they had a Father's Day special. I ordered a base model, which was supposed to be an Inland, and to my amazement got one made by Standard Products. It was filthy but cleaned up nicely and shoots quite well.

View attachment 966279

Next I ran across a screaming deal ($500) on an Iver Johnson commemorative. It was a mess shooting feet to the left at 100 yds. and had all sorts of little bugaboos that had to be dealt with. Then came an Inland from RTI, then another Inland from and individual and finally an early Universal.

I really scratch my head when I read of reliability problems with the Carbine. So long as I'm shooting bullets with RN profiles, I simply have no feeding problems at all.

The .30 Carbine cartridge isn't thought to be a powerful cartridge, yet when compared to modern highly regarded self defense cartridges such as the .327 Federal, it is far more powerful. One only need use a good bullet. I really like the little cartridge because I can use cast bullets in it and run them the same speed as the original load, and they shoot just as well.

View attachment 966280

View attachment 966282

I feel 200 yds. is pretty much the maximum range for the platform, but some stretch it further, which is fine!

35W

Put a light in the chamber of that Iver Johnson and look down the bore- see if the resulting image is oval-shaped. Its not unheard of for carbines to have bent barrels. Otherwise the sights are probably just off-center.

 

[35 Whelen]

Put a light in the chamber of that Iver Johnson and look down the bore- see if the resulting image is oval-shaped. Its not unheard of for carbines to have bent barrels. Otherwise the sights are probably just off-center.

When I discovered the problem, I tore the Iver Johnson down and started investigating. I laid a straight edge along the side of the receiver and let it extend out along the barrel. The barrel very clearly did not run straight or parallel with the receiver, angling slightly to the right (I said left in my post, but it was shooting right!). Either the face of the receiver wasn't square or the receiver had been threaded crooked. No matter, figuring I had nothing to lose I clamped it in the bench vice, slid a piece of square tubing over the barrel and started tweaking the barrel to the left.



I'd tweak a little, reassemble, shoot, repeat. The problem was so bad that I had to shoot at the left side of my 18" x 30" silhouette target at 25 yds. just to see where it was hitting!! It took much more force than I'd expected to get things straightened out, but it worked!

35W

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

When I discovered the problem, I tore the Iver Johnson down and started investigating. I laid a straight edge along the side of the receiver and let it extend out along the barrel. The barrel very clearly did not run straight or parallel with the receiver, angling slightly to the right (I said left in my post, but it was shooting right!). Either the face of the receiver wasn't square or the receiver had been threaded crooked. No matter, figuring I had nothing to lose I clamped it in the bench vice, slid a piece of square tubing over the barrel and started tweaking the barrel to the left.

View attachment 968303

I'd tweak a little, reassemble, shoot, repeat. The problem was so bad that I had to shoot at the left side of my 18" x 30" silhouette target at 25 yds. just to see where it was hitting!! It took much more force than I'd expected to get things straightened out, but it worked!

35W

I had a buddy who was Army in the 50's who said they used to find Carbines with bent barrels all the time. SOP to fix the condition was put a .30 caliber rod down the bore and keep bending a little bit at a time until it slid all the way to the chamber. He didnt remember if this was an officially issued tool, or something cooked up as a field fix, but it worked!

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Great pics of some fine old carbines. I have two...both CMP acquisitions....a Winchester and a Standard Products...the latter won me a 3rd place in the first CMP sponsored Carbine Match at Perry in '06. That issue LC ammo really perked in my Standard...I load for them both, having bought a life-time supply of pulled LC bullets from Jeff Bartlett over in Owensboro, KY. Win 296, 4227, & 2400 all work well with any good 110 gr bullet and give you military muzzle velocities.

They're fun guns, light on recoil, and will make a good transition gun for newer shooters moving into center fire rifle shooting. Just be careful while hand loading and make sure your keep the brass trimmed. A long case can keep the bolt from completely locking resulting in an open bolt discharge...with violent consequences. Excessive wear on the bolt lugs, and failure of the anti-open bolt feature on these 70+ year old guns bears watching. YMMv Rod

Just because they’re 70 doesn’t mean they’ll spontaneously combust but yes thank you.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

I won't discuss the difference between "official claims" and "my experience'. If the Army says so, it says so. I think the point is well established the M1 Carbine was not made to be a long range sniping or hunting round. In my life, that's the role they take. No offense taken, no anger intended.

It’s often the individual shooter and environmental conditions that are the biggest factor in hitting at that distance.

 

[Paul7]

They might be a relic in name but they are anything but relics for defense.

They are combat proven and send a 110 grain projectile out at 2000 FPS from 15-30 round mags as fast as one can pull the trigger, weigh but 5.5 lbs, and are handy as can be. This is my bedside gun. ARs, while good guns, and better in some ways, are not a huge improvement for most practical purposes from this humble “relic”.

Absolutely, at 100 yards they have the same energy as a .357 at the muzzle.

 

[35 Whelen]

Sometimes we shooters seem to think, where effectiveness is concerned, in terms of cartridges, rather than projectiles. We've all been told for years that the .30 Carbine is marginally effective, at best, for the role for which it was originally designed, then along come cartridges such as the .32 H&R Magnum and the .327 Federal and we're told they're wonderful self defense cartridges, and some say that the latter is just the berries for deer! Yet either these are at least 75-100 yards behind the .30 Carbine in effectiveness. That is, their energy figures are at the muzzle what the .30 Carbine's are at 100 yds. or so.

35W

 

[Rudolph31]

I learned from Forgotten Weapons that 30 round magazines have a 3rd catch to support the extra weight. When I checked, I found that my National Postal Meter M1 had the extra catch but my Inland didn’t. No big deal at the range, but if you’re using it for home defense...

 

[Tommygunn]

I learned from Forgotten Weapons that 30 round magazines have a 3rd catch to support the extra weight. When I checked, I found that my National Postal Meter M1 had the extra catch but my Inland didn’t. No big deal at the range, but if you’re using it for home defense...

M2 catches should be available. I found out that they do make a difference. They also do not interfere with 15 round mags.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I learned from Forgotten Weapons that 30 round magazines have a 3rd catch to support the extra weight. When I checked, I found that my National Postal Meter M1 had the extra catch but my Inland didn’t. No big deal at the range, but if you’re using it for home defense...

Its a very easy swap. If Numrich doesnt have them, try Amherst Depot.

 

[kBob]

Yep easy peasy swap of the M1 and M2 magazine catch. Most Carbines that went through refurb and have a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights have one, but not all as folks are discovering.

Detent plunger and spring visible through hole in bottom of trigger housing.

Biggest issue with 30 rounders is commercial brands not working.

-kBob

 

[Tommygunn]

Yep easy peasy swap of the M1 and M2 magazine catch. Most Carbines that went through refurb and have a bayonet lug and adjustable rear sights have one, but not all as folks are discovering.

Detent plunger and spring visible through hole in bottom of trigger housing.

Biggest issue with 30 rounders is commercial brands not working.

-kBob

There is a Korean brand that seems to be reliable. Even military 30 rounders had problems in the full auto M-2 carbine. I think semi auto is much more forgiving. It's said the fact the top is straight and the bottom is curved causes military issue problems .... commercial one could have other problems. I've never had problems with the Korean ones .... but as I said, that M2 style catch holds the heavy magazine much better.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

If you need 30 rounds for self defense you are either in a war zone or a poor shot. Just saying.....

 

[35 Whelen]

If you need 30 rounds for self defense you are either in a war zone or a poor shot. Just saying.....

LOL..you beat me to it!

Personally I think 30 round magazines take away from the handiness of the rifle, and let's see a fella try to shoot prone with one inserted!

35W