Warm S&W .45 Colt Loads?

[JNewell]

I'm wondering if anyone has good data for the following:

.45 Colt in a S&W 625 (not .45 ACP)

Winchester 231 (preferred), or W 296 or Unique

300 gr cast lead bullet

Seeking velocities in the 900-1000 fps range

Light loads and Ruger-only loads are really easy to find...this doesn't seem to be, which seems kind of wierd. What I'm looking for is loads that are equivalent to standard and +P .45 ACP equivalent loads, which are all over the landscape and shoot fine in 625s...go figger.

Any help gratefully appreciated.

 

[griz]

I'm missing what you are asking. 300 gr at 950 FPS is way too hot for a 45 ACP. Do you mean something between Colt and Ruger loads?

 

[JNewell]

Sorry, that wasn't clear. The comment about .45 ACP standard and +P loads was a reference to pressure levels, give or take, not to specific loads. IIRC, .45 ACP +P SAAMI pressure is around 24k psi? -- which should be fine in an N frame.

So, I'm looking for a load that will send a 300 gr bullet downrange from a 5" .45 Colt S&W at somewhere in the 900-1000 fps range, which I think will be in that pressure range.

 

[swifter]

You need to do a search on "John Taffin", he has written extensively on this.
My "stiff "load in my 25-5 is with a 250 gr. cast bullet. 12.5 gr. Blue Dot gives me about 950 FPS. This is from the bottom end of the "Ruger, etc..." loadings.
You're welcome to it, with the standard precautions... It does not seem to strain my revolver or my hand, and is accurate as an old fart can hold...

Best,

Tom

 

[buzz meeks]

I'll be working on a similar experiment this winter. I have a newish 25-13 800 pounds of wheelweights and an LBT-style 320 GC Lee mould. Based on old work with a Ruger Bisley, H4227 might be a good starting point. I would also expect good things with 2400. In my limited experience both powders seem real forgiving when working in the gray areas that manuals don't cover. And both SEEM to offer up good velocity at moderate pressure.

 

[JNewell]

Swifter & Buzz -- thanks, and have been all over Taffin, Taylor and Linebaugh, but there's very little in this range in 231 (or 296 or Unique) -- part of the goal is not to get in more powders than the (admittedly few) that I've been working with and have on hand.

I'm thinking that this year I'm gonna get someone to give me the chronograph that I should have bought a long time ago!

 

[griz]

The Lazer-Cast book lists 17 grains of 296 as good for 855 FPS for a Ruger only load. The Speer book goes quite a bit higher (over 20 grains and over 1000 FPS) but with a jacketed bullet. 231 is on the other end of the spectrum and I doubt you will get up to your desired velocity using it.

 

[JNewell]

Does the Lazer-Cast book list pressures? The only manual I've got that does is Hodgdon...maybe the Lee book, too...don't remember for sure. I'm thinking that anything under 25k psi or so should be fine in a .45 Colt N frame.

 

[grendelbane]

Elmer Keith used to recommend a charge of 2400 under cast bullets in the S&W chambered for the .45 Colt cartridge.

To me, it seems pretty stiff compared to recommendations you see today.

However, I doubt that the metallurgy of the S&W revolvers in question has deteriorated in the last half century.

I know that I like my new 625-8, and I also know that some of the loads that are gleefully recommended for it are higher in pressure than some of the .45 Colt loads that are considered poisonous.

Go figure!

 

[griz]

Lazer Cast does not list pressure, or even mention it in the caliber write up other than to say Ruger or T-C only. The Speer book I have (12th) lists 20.7 grains for a JACKETED 300 grain bullet at 1084 FPS. They warn that this bullet was generating higher pressures than the lighter bullets (again all are Ruger only) but did not exceed 25,000 CUP.

Hope that helps.

 

[redneck2]

Fwiw

I use 255 LSWC's over AA5 and WLP's in my Ruger Bisley for loads that kill paper real well. These are at the top end of the "any gun" loads. These are stiff enough that it makes it interesting but WAY below "Ruger Only" loads of WW 296/H-110.

I suspect if you drop down that far with 296, pressures will be erratic and burn will be less than complete. I can tell you from experience that Unique will be exceptionally dirty.

I would have no problem using the 255/AA5 load for close range deer hunting. Personally, I'd stick with powders faster than 110 for the loads you desire. Something in the range of 2400, Power Pistol, AA5, Blue Dot, or Universal Clays should work. I just loaded up 200 rounds of these yesterday. My Dillon meters AA5 perfectly.

Edit to add: IIRC, the Lyman book gives 3 different ranges of loads (Old guns, new guns, Ruger/TC). If you're set on the 300 grain, then powders even slower might work better (AA9, etc). I use Blue Dot for screamer loads in my 10mm. Seems to build pressure well without spikes, but that's a 180 grain. Still, it gives 1,300+ without bulging the cases

HTH

 

[444]

I don't know if this is any help at all: it doesn't really answer your specific questions, but April 2004 issue of Handloader magazine has a pretty good article on "Midrange Sixgun Loads" written by Brian Pierce. The article is about loads for the .41 mag, .44 Mag, .45 Colt, and .454 Casull using cast bullets at right around 1050 fps.
However, he doesn't use the powders you want to use, nor does he use a 300 grain bullet in the .45 Colt. His .45 Colt loads use HS-6, 2400, or VV-3N37.

 

[Bob C]

My best results with heavier loads for the .45 Colt in my S&W Mountain Gun were with Blue Dot and with 4227.

In my experience, 296/H-110 and 2400 aren't efficient at the levels I load for this gun, although they work well for loads for a Ruger.

Unique is fine for factory equivalent loads, and is my overall favorite for the caliber. I don't use it for hotter loads, however.