Warning! Graphic photo of gun injury!

[SaxonPig]

This was sent to me by a friend (not involved in accident) as a warning about using smokeless powder in a muzzle-loading firearm.

First photo is of the rifle's ruptured barrel.





Next shot is of the shooter's severely injured hand. Very graphic. Don't look if squeamish.

Mod: I thought that the warning was sufficient. I'll post a link to view the photo. That OK?

http://www.fototime.com/07CDB7787C3E890/standard.jpg

Mod Note: While gruesome enough to drive the point home it's a little too gruesome for folks to find in the open. PM the OP for the image if you want it.

 

[Ian]

Eeek!

How is the guy? Hope there's not too much permanent damage, but boy does that thumb look dire...

 

[BMF500]

Not to take away from the severity of the injury or seriousness of the warning, but, that’s a bolt action rifle, not a muzzle loader. Is there any more to the story? Possible hand loading mishap?

 

[devildog32713]

woah, I remember my Hunter's Ed instructor always saying to never use smokeless powder in muzzleloaders, but I have never knew how bad it could result, my condolences, but now I'm 100% sure I'll NEVER do that. How is the thumb doing?

 

[PT1911]

Not to take away from the severity of the injury or seriousness of the warning, but, that’s bolt action rifle, not a muzzle loader

dont be so sure...you may be right but just because it has a boltdoesnt make it a bolt action in the typical sense.It could be a muzzle loader with a bolt operation to place a primer... much like the break action muzzle loaders... difficult to tell from the picture..

one must wonder i there was an occlusion of some sense or a grimed up barrel otherwise.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

WOW! That's some intense stuff. However, that does not appear to be a muzzleloader. I know they make a few bolt actions though, so it could be. Would definately like more info if you have it.

 

[R.W.Dale]

looks like a savage 10ml muzzleloader, of which there are safe smokeless loads Savage designed it this way. Sounds like some OTHER much more specific (like using the wrong propellant) form of user error.

http://www.savagearms.com/various/documents/manual_muzzleloader_10mlii.pdf

 

[BMF500]

Just asking a question devildog, I said I'm not trying to take merit from the warning.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

The last muzzle loader I shot was a bolt action, the bolt is just for loading a cap or primer. You still ram the powder and bullet down the barrel.

 

[Chief Engineer]

Projectile not seated against the powder?

 

[Arkansas Paul]

^ That would create pressure problembs, but that much? I don't know. I bet he's never been that scared in his life. Can't imagine. Hope he regains use of the hand. That thumb looks pretty rough.

 

[Scott30]

There is another link somewhere that shows this same rifle and what looks to be the problem in the design in the Savage 10ML design. IIRC there ends up being a gap between the breech plug and the barrel when the breech plug is installed. One would summize that the barrel wall would have to be thinner in that area for a gap to exist. When the powder is ignited, pressure builds in that thinner area between the breech plug and barrel and over time stresses the metal resulting in catastrophic failure.

Think I will stay with my TCs and be happy.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

This was sent to me by a friend (not involved in accident) as a warning about using smokeless powder in a muzzle-loading firearm.

There are tolerances and intolerances. This is a great example of the latter.

Here is more on the story. It is several months old.
http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/Alert2.html

Several more images of the rifle and hand can be seen there.

and a couple more rifle images seen here from the incident.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/02/18/savage-muzzleloader-kaboom/

 

[SaxonPig]

I believe it is an in-line muzzle loader by Savage.

I have no info on the shooter's condition. Pretty obvious he lost the tip of his left thumb and suffered serious damage to the whole hand.

Like I said, it came in an email with no real details.

 

[Old Fuff]

The same condition can occur when using black powder if the ball or bullet isn't firmly seated againist the powder charge. Experienced muzzle-loader's often marked the front end of their ramrods as an indicator the the ball/bullet was fully seated. Unfortunately these "tricks of the trade" procedures aren't so well known to some of today's shooters.

 

[chiggerbyt]

Still had a charge in it from last year and then the new charge on top of that???? Serious injury for sure and I pray a speedy and successful recovery for the man.

 

[ants]

Bullet not fully seated, double-charge, obstruction, or poor design?

The shooter, Trent Procter, told his own story on several web sites. He was using IMR 4759 rather than black powder. It is possible that the explosion occured due to overcharge, due to obstruction, due to the bullet not being fully seated, or due to a flaw in the rifle's design. [After the first productin run, Savage updated the design and produced it as the 10ML II. Some shooters claim that the original design was flawed, other deny that claim. No proof has ever been demonstrated either way.]

As chigger suggests, muzzle loading obstruction damage can occur when a powder charge and bullet are loaded but not discharged, and a second charge accidentally loaded over the top of the first. Since muzzle loaders are hard to unload, a shooter may unwisely remove the 209 primer (these bolt action muzzle loaders generally use a 209 shotshell primer instead of an old fashioned percussion cap) and leave the charge and bullet in the rifle for next time. Next time out, the shooter forgets that the rifle is already loaded, and loads a second charge which becomes the obstruction for the first.

If you find the original article where Procter tell his own story, you may get hints that he may not have been the safest shooter out there that day.

 

[Scrapperz]

RE: Old Fuff

The same condition can occur when using black powder if the ball or bullet isn't firmly seated againist the powder charge. Experienced muzzle-loader's often marked the front end of their ramrods as an indicator the the ball/bullet was fully seated. Unfortunately these "tricks of the trade" procedures aren't so well known to some of today's shooters.

I picked up on this watching my Uncle shoot his Hawken years ago. He was big into the re-enactments of the civil war. I always loved the cannons too.

 

[cleardiddion]

Oh snap!
Shoulda listened up better I guess.
I guess I'll be smart and pay attention if I get into BP.

 

[benEzra]

Dang, it BENT the scope bell. I guess part of the barrel did that.

I hope he regains full use of his hand.

 

[russ69]

Smokeless in a muzzle loader? Wow, that's not very smart.

Thanx, Russ

 

[ants]

That particular Savage is made for smokeless powder, if used within Savage's recommendations.

Savage recommends max load of 43.0 grains of IMR-4759 with a 250 grain bullet, Procter was using 42.5 grains IMR-4759 with a 250 grain Barnes bullet. He was within the manufacturer's recommendations.

 

[Snowdog]

As nasty and unfortunate this event was, am I the only one that wonders what the velocity of that projectile was? I often wonder that about double charges that zap handguns into oblivion.

 

[Shadow 7D]

If you read the linked article you will see that it is about a number of failures in the particular savage model and cites the problem as gas cutting due to the breech plug not being fully threaded, and states that he examined a number of "good" rifles and also found similar gas cutting that hadn't caused such a failure yet.

 

[06]

According to the link it is a 10ML II. If I had one I would not fire it again until the breech plug problem is resolved. That appears to be the problem with gas escaping to the cavity between the threads and rear of barrel. If you have not followed both links and have this rifle you need to do so. IMO, it is an inherently dangerous problem.