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Warning: Wolf 9x18mm Squib

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by redactor, Mar 31, 2008.

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  1. redactor

    redactor Member

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    Yesterday, I had what I believe to be a squib load out of a box of Wolf 100 gr. 9x18 Makarov.

    While firing my CZ-82, I had downloaded my magazines to 3 rounds each. I was doing 3 round strings, dropping my empty magazines on the ground, performing a slide-lock reload (IDPA practice), then another 3 round string.

    I had been shooting for about 10 minutes this way, when I performed a slide-lock reload, pressed the trigger and instead of "bang" I just got a mushy trigger pull. I stopped, and my slide had failed to return to battery. Tap the magazine, rack the slide, and still failed to return to battery.

    So, I locked the slide back and dropped the magazine. There was what appeared to be plastic shavings all dumped inside the action, causing my cartridges not to chamber. I'm thankful that they did.

    I field stripped the pistol, and sure enough... there was a bullet lodged about 1/4 the way down the barrel. I will tap it out when I get home this evening, and hopefully I won't find two lodged in there.

    Some observations:

    1. I am a lucky man.

    2. I did not notice anything out of the ordinary before the FTRB.

    3. Had that "plastic" fouling not gummed up the chamber, I'm confident that the stuck bullet was far enough down that the next round would have chambered.

    4. The squib apparently had generated enough pressure to lock the slide back normally. Recoil was not noticeably reduced, and neither was the noise.

    I did not recover the case to see if there was something obviously wrong with it. Maybe I'll stop back by there on my way home tonight and try again to find it.

    This cartridge was recently manufactured, I think in 2007. I will see if there is a lot number stamped inside the box when I get home tonight, and post with an update.
     
  2. Aaryq

    Aaryq Member

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    I'll bump to see where this goes. I have quite a bit of 9x18 that I bought and want to see if it's a problem anyone else has had.
     
  3. Nightwing

    Nightwing Member

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    I'll tell ya... I like cheep ammo as much as the next guy. I don't make a lot of money and can't afford to buy top dollar target ammo. But I REFUSE to buy wolf ammo. it is pure crap and I have heard way too many complaints about it. If your gun was worth the money, your ammo should be worth it too.
     
  4. redactor

    redactor Member

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    I had a look at the pistol again during lunch, and what looked like plastic shavings turns out to be burned and unburned powder.

    I'm starting to wonder if I didn't have a case failure instead of a squib, but I couldn't find the case, and didn't want to hang around and press my luck. I was at a public range that has little (no) adult supervision besides other shooters, and very few of them pay attention.
     
  5. Nickotym

    Nickotym Member

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    I tried some WOlf 115 grain in my PA 63 and found it has too much pressure for the gun. Was getting primers that were showing signs of backing out. I won't use that ammo in this gun again, but have no qualms about using it in a true Makarov.
     
  6. goon

    goon Member

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    It sounds like maybe the powder was somehow contaminated.
    I had something similar when I had problems with a batch of brass I bought once that was primed but that hadn't had the lube removed.
    It contaminated my powder and gave me squib loads that left bullets stuck in the barrel of my rifle.

    I'm not sure that this only applies to Wolf ammo though.
    I got a box of Remington stuff the other day that had a 9mm round with the primer in sideways. My brother bought some extremely overloaded 9mm Fiocchi once that split the cases and cracked like a .357. Mistakes can happen with pretty much any factory ammo. The only way to get away from that is to shoot only your own handloads.
     
  7. redactor

    redactor Member

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    UPDATE:

    The lot number for this box is C 120-07. I purchased it from Graf's in December.

    I went back out to the range to dig for my empty cases, and was pretty shocked by what I saw. I fired 18 rounds out of this box. On the ground where I was shooting, there was a number of Wolf cases stamped "9mm Luger," along with one live 9mm Makarov that I had dropped in the excitement. That was the ONLY case I could find labeled Makarov.

    So, I don't have any way to prove this, but it looks like I had gotten (several) 9mm Luger cases loaded with the Makarov bullet. I didn't count the number of 9mm Luger cases that I found, but like I said... no 9mm Makarov cases were there except the live one I'd dropped.

    So the question is, can I take a 9mm Luger case, seat a pulled 9mm Makarov bullet to 9mm Makarov COL, and load it into my CZ vz-82 well enough to drop the hammer?

    I have 200 rounds of this stuff left, and none of them have a 9mm Luger head stamp. I would have thought you'd have a reasonable expectation that a box of factory cartridges would at least be the correct cases. Obviously this is not the case. Lesson learned.
     
  8. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    Take pictures and e-mail them to Wolf. They will make this right. Don't toss anything yet.
     
  9. RockyMtnTactical

    RockyMtnTactical Member

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    Wolf is my last choice when it comes to shooting factory loaded ammo. I have seen too much inconsistency and QC issues with them. I've had a lot of blown primers with their ammo.

    Glad you are ok.
     
  10. novaDAK

    novaDAK Member

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    I've shot 500rds (1/2 of the case I bought) of Wolf 9x18 out of my bulgy makarov, never a single bad round, weak round, or stoppage with the gun or ammo. Same goes with 7.62x39 Wolf in a Romy AK :)

    I got a few boxes of .45 to shoot through my Ruger (even the owners manual that they say to read on the side of the gun :rolleyes: says that its fine to shoot all brass, aluminum, or steel cased ammunition) but I haven't gotten around to shooting it yet. I got it for 13 bucks/50rds so it was cheap enough to get at the time (usually get it at the gunshows or at wally world)
     
  11. redactor

    redactor Member

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    I suspect the rest of it will be OK, since I don't see any more 9mm Luger head stamps. If my gun is in good shape after I tap that bullet out, I'll probably shoot the rest... I'll just be really careful doing it.

    I knew this stuff wasn't the best, but I did expect it to be adequate.
     
  12. doubleg

    doubleg Member

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    No more wolf .45acp for me.
     
  13. jrfoxx

    jrfoxx Member

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    Oops, posted before I read your new findings, so ignore my speculation.

    WOW! mixed up ammo....thats not cool at all.Anyone with more knowledge of 9mm luger and 9x18 COL, powder charges, pressures, etc able to explain how bad this could have been, or if its possible they loaded them up like 9x18, but with 9mm luger cases what you think the result would be etc? Seems like the 2 are similar enough as to not be OVERLY dangerous, but still not good....
     
  14. Halo

    Halo Member

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    Drop one of those 9x19 spent cases into the chamber to see how well it fits. If it fits like the proverbial glove, it would just about prove your theory. Otherwise, if the glove don't fit you must acquit! :)
     
  15. SomeKid

    SomeKid Member

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    Keep the Wolf hatred flowing boys. Maybe if enough of you abandon Wolf, their prices will drop even more and I can afford to shoot it more. Stay away from the horrible communist ammo, even if it does work in every single gun I own (that I have tried it in).
     
  16. RockyMtnTactical

    RockyMtnTactical Member

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    Don't count on it.

    You should calm down. If Wolf works for you, use it. No need to get offended that some of us don't love it.

    I still shoot it ocassionally, and have some, but I avoid using it if I can just because I have seen more inconsistency in it than any of the other stuff I regularly shoot.

    Heck, I never said I wouldn't ever shoot it... and trust me, there are brands of ammo out there I will not shoot in my guns. I will shoot Wolf, but it is my last choice...
     
  17. SomeKid

    SomeKid Member

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    RMT, go re-read my post, and instead of assuming I rant, assume I am giving you a lighthearted tongue-in-cheek prod.

    Personally, I hope you don't ever use it. Less use = less demand = lowered prices to keep people buying it.
     
  18. jdc1244

    jdc1244 Member

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    I’ve used 100 rounds of the same ammo in my 82, Lot C 120-07. No problem with that ammo. I have one box left.

    I’m sorry to report I’ve had no issues with Wolf ammo in handguns. I don’t buy much of it because I’m concerned about the effect of the steel casings on the guns’ parts. Of course that could be an internet myth.

    Wolf MC works perfectly in my AK, the SKSs don’t care for it, however.

    That I don’t know. I can say that my son loaded 9mm Makarov in the CZ SP-01 by mistake and tried to rack it.The Makarov round jammed in the barrel about half way and locked up the gun. I was able to get the slide off and remove the round – gently – with pliers. (The gun’s functioned perfectly since, good ol’ CZs, built like tanks.)

    So if a Makarov round won’t fit into a 9mm Luger barrel it might not be a good idea to put a 9mm Luger round in a Makarov chamber.
     
  19. RockyMtnTactical

    RockyMtnTactical Member

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    I am afraid I do though... as much as I try not to.

    However, I don't think less demand on that particular ammo will lower the prices all that much. Commodities are on the up and up, so it doesn't matter what you use lead, copper, brass, and steel for... the demand on those items is HIGH! And these guys still have to make a profit of some sort...
     
  20. redactor

    redactor Member

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    Ok, I tried it this morning. An empty, un-resized 9x19 case fit into the chambers of BOTH my CZ-82s.

    Then, I had some dummies made up with Hornady 124 gr. flat-point (9mm Luger), seated to 1.050. They fit into the magazines. They fit in the chambers. BOTH slides closed, and BOTH hammers dropped.

    So, at least SOME 9mm Luger rounds will fit into a CZ-82. This is scary, and you need to be aware of it if you have an 82.

    As of now, my suspicion is that I got at least one 9mm Luger case loaded with 9mm Makarov powder charge and bullet. I'm thinking the extra 1mm case length may have caused the gun to unlock early, blowing most of the pressure out of the ejection port. Had I been paying attention I might have noticed it, but all I saw was my front sight.

    Of course, I have no way to prove any of this... It's only what I think happened.

    I hope nobody misunderstands my purpose here. I'm not the boy who cried "Never buy wolf!!" And I probably will buy more. Hey, it's a good price. All I'm saying is be careful out there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2008
  21. arjppj

    arjppj Member

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    i've had two squibs from Winchester, one in 45 white box and another in .22.....so its not just Wolf.
     
  22. MakAttak

    MakAttak Member

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    >.<

    ... <groan>
     
  23. redactor

    redactor Member

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    Sorry. Couldn't resist. :)
     
  24. MakAttak

    MakAttak Member

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    As much as it pains me, I have to admit I laughed >.<
     
  25. novaDAK

    novaDAK Member

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    It's nearly impossible to chamber a 9x19 cartridge into a 9x18mm chamber...especially a steel cased one at that which won't be as forgiving (soft) to somehow squeeze that extra millimeter in there.
     
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