Warning: Wolf LP Primers and mag loads

[Jolly Rancher]

I usually don't post here but wanted to share my experience from this afternoon at the range. For starters I've been reloading off and on for the past 30 years and recently purchased a NIB Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt. I, as most others, have noted the difficulty in obtaining primers lately so when I saw a deal to get 5000 Wolf LP primers plus shipping for $28.00 per 1000 I jumped on it. Before I go any farther this is not intended to be a Wolf bashing thread I just want to caution others. I first loaded up 100 45 ACP rounds of 225 gr lead flat nose bullets over 4.8 gr of Bullseye. Then I decided to the load up a hand full of 45 Colt using 250 gr XHP bullets over 26.2 gr of H110 to see what it would do. This load is listed as the max load for this bullet / powder per my reloading info. So I load up 35 rounds after verified that my powder measure is throwing that exact charge. Best of my recollection is I visually verified each cartridge was loaded with powder before seating the bullet (this load fills the case some where between 2/3 to 3/4 full). I take the Blackhawk to the range and commence to fire. Round #1 goes boom, Round #2 goes boom but round #3 goes "click" or so it sounded with my hearing protection on. I think great a dud so I wait for at least 30 sec to see if it was going to be a hang-fire but nothing happened. So still thinking I've got a "dud" cock the hammer and let fly again, big mistake. The piece almost flew out of my hand. It was like I had a double charge, but after looking at the barrel from the inside and out it was obvious that a round had been stuck in the barrel and I had just blow it out, bulging the barrel. I don't know how wise it was but I fired 3 more shots to see if it would still print on the paper. I stopped at the third round when it made a rather low quality "boom". I looked in the barrel and there was no bullet but there was a large amount of unburned powder. The only thing I can think of is that the primers weren't doing a very good job of igniting the powder. I would like to say that the 100 rounds of 45 ACP I loaded went "boom" every time as expected with good accurate. The only upside to this is now I've got an excuse to replace the 5 1/2 barrel with a 7 1/2 inch barrel and that no one was hurt.
Jolly Rancher

 

[Rule3]

Sorry to hear about your gun but as you say, at least you were not hurt.

I have been using Wolff large and small pistol primers for all my handgun loads and have not experienced any problems. They go bang every time. I have not tried any full load magnums however in 357 or 44. I still have a box or two of Winchester LPP so I will save them for any hot loads.

 

[JimKirk]

I am not sure how you can fault the primer, it had to go off.

If the primer did not fire then the bullet would not have been lodged in the barrel.

The problem was your not checking the barrel after a misfire.

We all make mistakes....

Jimmy K

 

[oneounceload]

As I said on the other forum, sounds like operator error to me

 

[buck460XVR]

Where did you get the loading info for the H110 and .45 Colt? Outta 5 reloading manuals, I cannot find any. Don't mean there isn't any, I was just trying to see what kind of recipe I could find. That said, Hodgdon manufacturer of H110/W296 recommends the use of Magnum primers with H110/W296 for just the reason you experienced. Failure to fully ignite a load, resulting in a squib with a bullet stuck in the barrel. I believe the failure was not because of the brand of primer, but because a standard primer was used and not a magnum primer.

 

[billybob44]

I am not sure how you can fault the primer, it had to go off.

If the primer did not fire then the bullet would not have been lodged in the barrel.

The problem was your not checking the barrel after a misfire.

We all make mistakes....

Jimmy K

+1 Jim. More than likely this was, for some reason, a brass case that did NOT get it's power charge. It would be possible that a Wolf Standard primer would not touch off a Max load of H110. It seems to me that a Mag. primer is recommended for max charges of H-110/WW-296?? I use Wolf Mag Large Pistol primers on most all of my .44 Mag. loads, with good results. I, like the OP was able to buy Wolf Mag. LP a few months ago for $24.50 per K, +HazMat+shipping, and jumped on 5K of those.

 

[EddieNFL]

At least three mistakes; none the fault of the primers. Sounds as if they functioned as designed.

Glad you're okay. Too bad about the gun.

 

[Jolly Rancher]

Like I said I'm not out to bash Wolf I just never figured that the possibility of so poor of ignition would be possible. Live and learn. Will use only mag primers for mag loads in the future. If anything sounds the least bit unusual will stop and inspect. Up side no one was hurt. Look at the following website for the load. http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
Jolly Rancher

 

[06]

Squibbs scare the heck out of me. Have only had a couple and thankfully caught them before firing again. One was "saved" by a buddy behind watching the target for me. He tapped me on the shoulder and saved my "bacon".

 

[ants]

Let that be a warning...

... Wolf primers will bulge your barrel every time. Yep. I think .

 

[JimKirk]

I just never figured that the possibility of so poor of ignition would be possible

I still not sure how you figured out it was poor ignition... Did you see unburned powder spilling out of the barrel or cylinder.

Had you stopped after the misfire and checked you may have discovered what caused the lodged bullet and before the ruined barrel.

The key word is "possibility" or other "possibilities"


Jimmy K

 

[ants]

You cannot rule out...

Insufficient powder charge
No powder
Wet powder (residual water or oil inside case before charging)
Wet primer (ditto)
Plugged flashhole
Foreign object(s) or contamination in powder

Also possible, but easier to rule out...
Wrong powder
Deteriorated powder
These are easier to rule out because they would have affected the previous rounds.

And let us not rule out the possibility of...
Bad primer.


All of these are possibilities. Don't jump too quickly to any one too soon.

 

[zxcvbob]

I think the problem started with using a standard primer instead of a magnum primer -- or possibly a weak crimp. Can't fault Wolf for that. Sorry about the gun, but at least it can be fixed and you didn't hurt anybody.

I like 16.5 grains of Blue Dot with 250 or 255 grains cast bullets (and Wolf LP primers) for a hot load, and this is still kind of conservative. I haven't worked any up with AA#7 or 2400 yet. I have a carton of Federal LPM primers; I'll make *sure* I use them next time I try 296 powder.

 

[ljnowell]

I haven't worked any up with AA#7 or 2400 yet. I have a carton of Federal LPM primers; I'll make *sure* I use them next time I try 296 powder.

One of the reasons I like 2400 is that it doesnt seem to need magnum primers for good ignition.

 

[LiveLife]

round #3 goes "click" or so it sounded with my hearing protection on.

Since you had hearing protection on, could that "click" sound you heard may have been the primer igniting, but no powder in the case? Usually, the primer ignition is enough to dislodge the bullet into the barrel with no powder.

Been using Wolf primers for over a year now to "save" my Winchester primers - No problems. Issues other reloaders reported were due to primers not seated deep enough in the primer pockets - second strike always ignited these lightly seated primers - reloader error, not primer.

JMO

 

[snuffy]

So after a 29 line single paragraph, the one stand-out line is this;

This load is listed as the max load for this bullet / powder per my reloading info. So I load up 35 rounds after verified that my powder measure is throwing that exact charge.

Complete failure of standard reloading procedure.ALWAYS START AT THE RECOMMENDED STARTING LOAD!

Also a heavy crimp is needed. 45 colt shells have a huge capacity that left a lot of room for the powder to move around. That made the situation worse.

 

[dagger dog]

Jolly,

It takes a truly honest person to relate a story such as yours, others can learn from your mistakes.

I recently started handloading for the .45 Colt for my new Blackhawk, and questioned the use of Magnum primers with W296 on this forum, and was replied with a definite yes, for H110 also which I hear is a exact clone. Richard Lees 2nd edition loading manual also has a large warning for the above info.

Mistakes happen to every one, no personal harm was done,learn from this lesson and move on.

 

[iblong]

Ive only had one squib load in my life and it scared the bejesus out of me.
To this day I dont know if I didnt load the powder or if it just dropped a light charge.
I heard a light bang the casing ejected and the next round didnt go into battery I racked the slide and it still wouldnt go into battery.I droped the mag and cleared the 1911 and looked down the barrel and there was a wad cutter stuck just far enough in to keep it from going back into battery all the way.The should haves and could haves really hit home that day!and a major leason was learned.If it doesnt sound right stop and check!

 

[SuperNaut]

I don't know nothin' 'bout nothin' but it seems to me that a primer that fires is a good primer.

 

[zxcvbob]

Complete failure of standard reloading procedure.ALWAYS START AT THE RECOMMENDED STARTING LOAD!

With H110 and 296, the starting load is the max load. You can usually reduce them up to 3% but that's about it. (that's why I generally like 2400 much better, even tho' 296 is a stronger powder and I like heavy loads.)

 

[Rule3]

Speer manual #14 indicates a Magnum Primer with H110 and lists a powder range of only 19.0 to 21.0 for their 250gr GDHP

 

[ljnowell]

Complete failure of standard reloading procedure.ALWAYS START AT THE RECOMMENDED STARTING LOAD!

The preaching gets a litte too heavy in here, especially when one knows not the matter he is preaching. H110/296 really doesnt have a reduced starting charge.

 

[richie]

My manuals all say MAGNUM primers with H110/W296. I think thats were your problem was.

 

[AIM]

If no starting load for H110, then why does Hodgdon site list starting loads and max loads that differ?

 

[Ol` Joe]

From Hodgdons web site

Reduce H110 and Winchester 296 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 and Winchester 296 if reduced too much will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%.

This would be ~ .75gr in a 26 gr load. All the manuals I have show at least a 1gr reduction and up to 5 gr in some books depending on the bullet.. The purpose behind the warning not to reduce past 3% is because H110/296 is designed to operate at high pressure. Drop the charge too low and not enough pressure will result in squibs and other ignition problems. This is somewhat compensated for with the use of mag primers but, can still be a problem.
The OP is a lucky man. Shooting a high pressure round down a stopped-up barrel is not something I`d even want to be near, let alone do.....