Washington Gun Show

[Mainsail]

Besides, they’re very unlikely to be pulling out a gun to show it to someone in the mall, etc.

Pulling a loaded gun out anywhere it is improper to do so is UNACCEPTABLE. Gun show or mall, it is UNACCEPTABLE and ILLEGAL. Prosecute the lawbreakers, do not infringe the rights of the law abiding.

At a gun show where guns are being handled, displayed, played with and so on, it’s much more likely that a loaded gun is…

Don’t you understand that those are illegal actions under WA law?! If a visitor at the show displays/draws a firearm “…in a manner…that warrants alarm for the safety of others” they have committed an illegal act.

YES, SOME people can't be trusted! The problem is sorting out those that can from those that can't.

Again, this is an argument that Sara Brady herself would use. There is no problem sorting them out. You arrest and prosecute law breakers, you do NOT accomplish safety by restricting the civil rights of the law abiding.

If you let everybody have a loaded gun, there is the chance of an AD/ND. If you let no one have one, there is no chance. (Other than those that decide they are better than the rules of the club or are too stupid to follow them.)

Fill in the blank:
If you let everybody have a loaded gun, there is the chance of a murder
If you let everybody have a loaded gun, there is the chance of a suicide
If you let everybody have a loaded gun, there is the chance of domestic violence
Additionally, these two statements contradict each other. Even the solution guarantees absolutely nothing. I will also point out, again, that this is a Sara Brady argument.

Also, I’m still interested in your solution of having a “clearing” area if one decides they want to handle their carry gun for any reason. I asked if your plan was to “clear” the gun and then have it tied, or just clear it and leave it untied.

Sure, zip-tie the unloaded guns. All others are to be assumed loaded. Any vendor or WAC member that sees a firearm in someone’s hand that is not tied will immediately detain that person until the police arrive to take him/her into custody. ZERO tolerance. The police like to say that they’re the only ones responsible enough to carry firearms; you seem to say the same about yourself. You’re ok, but other may not be. The same can be said of other drivers, other boaters, or other pilots. Liberty is a frightening thing, no? It’s always the other guy and you seem to be OK that the ‘other guy’ is out there armed. Guns and stupid do not peacefully coexist.

I am STILL waiting to hear a reasoned argument that doesn’t use anti-gunner slogans and propaganda. I’m not trying to pin you to the wall with that demand either, but if your argument relies on those sorts of statements, then you are admitting that WAC is indeed in fellowship with the gun banners.

 

[RickH]

I go to the Monroe show a couple of times a year. I am not a member, I just go to buy the occasional accessory mags/holsters/ammo etc. I have seen very poor gun safety on both sides of the tables there. I think with that many guns around such a crowded area their rules are not such a bad idea. Granted I have seen poor gun handling in gun shops and at ranges too.
I accept that I am in a room full of people that can afford to spend 8 bucks, not a room full of people who know or follow basic firearm safety.
Another thing I like is the WAC can't be accused of having the gun show loophole. Any one buying or selling has passes a background check. Yes it sucks that we have to pay for that, but I would rather have that than no gun show at all.

 

[Mini30]

First, the reason for this policy is not because of insurance rules, as some will inevitably claim. They have this policy because they consider it unsafe for people to carry a loaded firearm in that environment. I don’t know if they have had an accident that drives this rule, ...

(emphasis added - Mini30)
Actually, they had two accidental discharges (ADs) in the middle of the show; one each for two consecutive days.* In each case, it was in the early afternoon when the max crowd was present.

Regularly attended the pull-your-pup show when I lived in WA. I was at the show for both events. The first event resulted from a practical joke on a vendor by another vendor. If I remember correctly, the second was pure complacency on the part of a gun owner and a gunsmithing vendor. The vendor was handed the customer's carry gun, the customer cleared the magazine, but both the customer and the vendor failed to see an unextracted cartridge in the chamber while doing the chamber check. In both cases, it was a damned good thing the trigger puller pointed the weapons in a safe direction when things went "bang".

By the time I left WA, the WAC had not changed the rules; you could still carry concealed at the show. But given the events, both of them so close together, I can't say I blame the club for the change. I would re-join if I was in the area, and if I felt strongly enough, I'd go to the actual club meetings to campaign for a change.

*this was about '92 - '93; and I think at the time, the show was open both sat & sun. Don't know if it still is.

 

[deadin]

I am STILL waiting to hear a reasoned argument that doesn’t use anti-gunner slogans and propaganda.

From what I have read here you are quite zealous in your position concerning the carrying of a loaded firearm at a gun show.
I have also learned over the years that there is no sense in attempting to argue with a zealot. They only see their view and anybody that doesn’t agree with them 100% is just not worthy of listening to.
In this case it seems that anybody that doesn’t agree with your position is going to be labeled as “anti-gun” and nothing but a tool of the other side.

At least I won’t have to worry about your loaded gun at the show as you won’t be there.

Oh, can you reconcile your statement:

I can carry (openly even) into a state liquor store or my bank.

And this excerpt from RCW 9.41.270: (as you posted)

It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, ………. at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

I’m sure that if you openly carry into a bank, someone is more than likely going to be alarmed. So should you be arrested on the spot?

BTW, an untied gun (even unloaded) is justification for expulsion at WAC shows.

 

[Mainsail]

That’s a cop out. I asked you to change my mind; you seem unwilling or unable to do so. Throwing in the towel is a feeble attempt to save face because you know your argument has no spine. Come on; put forth a reasoned argument in favor of their policy that doesn’t invoke the anti-gunner’s clichés.

As for your other question, no. There is nothing in the law that says someone being alarmed matters, it says, “warrants alarm”. Those are two completely different concepts. A holstered firearm cannot warrant alarm, if it did then Article 1 Section 24 would be meaningless and you would have no rights under the WA constitution.

 

[Mainsail]

What the....

 

[Mainsail]

Forum burp

 

[Mainsail]

Yikes