WashPost:"Bullet Cartridges Could ID Criminals"

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K-Romulus

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Here's a peek at what's coming down the pike, courtesy of Ted Kennedy and some other guy - a Federal microstamping law. Once again, those who say "Cali brings it first - y'all are next" are proven right.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/18/AR2007051801335.html

Bullet Cartridges Could ID Criminals

By ERICA WERNER
The Associated Press
Friday, May 18, 2007; 7:10 PM

WASHINGTON -- Gun shots rang out in a House office basement Friday as a Capitol police officer fired a semiautomatic pistol into the chest of a man-sized paper silhouette. Had the paper target been a real victim, and Capitol Police Sgt. William P. Siko a criminal, investigators might have found enough evidence for a conviction in the bullet cartridges left at the scene, gun control advocates said.

Siko helped demonstrate for lawmakers a technique called "microstamping," whereby identifying information from a gun is transferred onto bullet cartridges.

Rep. Xavier Becerra, D-Calif., arranged for Friday's demonstration in a basement firing range in the Rayburn House Office Building. He and Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., are crafting a microstamping bill that aides said has law enforcement support.

"A month ago we saw the reason we need to take action," Becerra said, referring to the Virginia Tech massacre April 16.

"There are ways we can reduce gun violence in America in a smart way, in an effective way and a way that doesn't infringe on anyone's personal ownership rights," he said.

Becerra is modeling his legislation on a bill in the California Assembly that would require semiautomatic pistols to be equipped with microscopic characters identifying make, model and serial number.

These characters would be imprinted onto each cartridge case when the gun is fired, allowing investigators to trace cartridges to a particular gun.

Proponents from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence said this would cost manufacturers only between 50 cents and $1 per firearm. They said that in many homicides _ 45 percent in California _ no arrest is made because of lack of evidence.

But the gun lobby opposes the approach, and even after Virginia Tech congressional Democrats have shown little appetite for gun control legislation, which has proven a political loser in the past.

National Rifle Association Chief Executive Wayne LaPierre said that criminals could alter guns or find other ways to evade microstamping.

"It's all federal cradle to grave regulation that spends a huge amount of taxpayers' money and counts on the criminals' cooperation," LaPierre said.
 
"A month ago we saw the reason we need to take action," Becerra said, referring to the Virginia Tech massacre April 16.

Uh, yeah, because microstamping would have told us who the killer was and without it we.......oh, wait.

:rolleyes:

This would be oh so effective too if the criminal took his/her brass with them. Reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Homer gets busted for an autodialer scam.

"See you in court Simpson. And bring that evidence.....without it we have no case" -Chief Wiggum, to Homer, after he shoots the autodialer.
 
Microstamping is de facto gun registration.

And we all know what happens after registration.

Proponents from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence said this would cost manufacturers only between 50 cents and $1 per firearm.
Wow, thats a big assed lie.

A simple part like a firing pin converted to stamp the guns serial number on the primer? Gonna cost a LOT more than an extra .50 to $1.

And what about replacement firing pins? You're going to be required by law to order a new one with the same number on it I expect. So much for a quick replacement of a firing pin if one breaks. Currently a replacement firing pin is what, $20-$30? I seriously doubt a serialized one will be less than $100.
 
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2007&summary=ab1471

Issue: MICROSTAMPING (Feuer)

Description: This bill would, commencing January 1, 2010, expand the definition of unsafe handgun to include semiautomatic pistols that are not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol, etched into the interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and that are transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is fired.

Latest Info: 05/08/2007 - Added CALNRA analysis of the UC Davis study - This May, 2007 study reports serious reliability problems with ID Dynamics' technology, concluding that Microstamping "...does not work well for all guns and ammunition tested in a pilot study by researchers from the forensic science program at UC Davis..." Tests were performed with ".22, .380 and .40-caliber handguns, two semi-automatic rifles and a pump-action shotgun." The study reports "a wide range of results depending on the weapon, the ammunition used and the type of code examined." The story and purported testing seem to validate our objections to microstamping with these observations:

* Pin wear occurs at only 2500 cycles, enough to disqualify dot and bar codes as well as cause deterioration in serial numbers in this study. Microstamping is thus not very practical, if the guns have to be returned to the manufacturer for replacement of a serialized component just after 2500 shots are fired.
* The current microstamping bill calls for 2 locations to be stamped, not just the primer, and thus does not address wear on the breech face or the technological problems involved in stamping the cartridge base clearly.
* Ceramics would most likely be too brittle to use in firing pins, due to the need for flexibility as the gun moves back and forth in the hand. Ceramics also fracture with sharp planes, so if the tip of a ceramic pin were to fracture, the very next shot cycled could put a dangerous amount of gas back into the face of the operator if the pin stayed long enough function. This may not bode well for the wear on the face of the pin either. (Carbide tips used in cutting tools chip and break all the time when operators make errors on aluminum, much less a thin steel cup in the primer.)
* Ceramics are abrasive on steel, and could open up the firing pin hole and the various alignment surfaces to the point that gases and firing pin location vary to the point of non-safety. (Again, think "carbide cutting tool" when discussing this scheme.)
* Beddow found that serialization can be easily removed with household tools, a key point in our claims.
* They are making an interesting comparison when they are trying to say that a facility can be set up to engrave pins in the $8.00 range. How the Feds will let a contract engraver do this for the various manufacturers remains to be seen. Federal law may have to be amended for CA to do this.

05/07/2007 - UC Davis study finds "Microstamping Guns Feasible but Flawed"

05/03/2007 - Earlier, we incorrectly reported that AB 1471 had passed the Assembly Appropriations Committee and had moved onto the Assembly floor. AB 1471 remains in the Assembly Appropriations Committee. Please contact the committee members and urge a NO vote on AB 1471.

UC Davis Study:

http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/n....lasso?id=8148

Microstamping Guns Feasible but Flawed, Study Finds

May 3, 2007

New technology to link cartridge cases to guns by engraving microscopic codes on the firing pin is feasible, but does not work well for all guns and ammunition tested in a pilot study by researchers from the forensic science program at UC Davis. More testing in a wider range of firearms is needed to determine the costs and feasibility of a statewide program of microstamping, as called for by proposed state legislation, the researchers said.

The technology developed by ID Dynamics of Londonderry, N.H., uses a laser to cut a pattern or code into the head of a firing pin. The method is similar to that used to engrave codes on computer chips. When the trigger is pulled, the firing pin hits the cartridge case or primer and stamps the code onto it. In principle, the spent cartridge can then be matched to a specific gun.

If successfully implemented, microstamping would be one additional piece of evidence for investigators to gather in building a criminal case, said Fred Tulleners, director of the forensics program at UC Davis. Tulleners was formerly director of the California Department of Justice crime lab in Sacramento, as well as the Sacramento and Santa Rosa county crime labs.

UC Davis graduate student Michael Beddow tested firing pins from six different brands of semi-automatic handguns, two semi-automatic rifles and a shotgun. The firing pins were engraved with three different types of code: a letter/number code on the face of the firing pin; a pattern of dots or gears around the pin; and a radial bar code down the side of the pin.

To test the effects of repeated firing, Beddow fitted engraved firing pins into six Smith and Wesson .40-caliber handguns that were issued to California Highway Patrol cadets for use in weapons training. After firing about 2,500 rounds, the letter/number codes on the face of the firing pins were still legible with some signs of wear. But the bar codes and dot codes around the edge of the pins were badly worn.

"They were hammered flat," Beddow said.

Tests on other guns, including .22, .380 and .40-caliber handguns, two semi-automatic rifles and a pump-action shotgun, showed a wide range of results depending on the weapon, the ammunition used and the type of code examined, Beddow found. Generally, the letter/number codes on the face of the firing pin and the gear codes transferred well to cartridge cases, but the bar codes on the sides of the firing pin performed more poorly. Microstamping worked particularly poorly for the one rimfire handgun tested.

The researchers did not have access to information allowing them to read the bar- or gear-codes, and so could not determine if these remained legible enough to be useful.

Codes engraved on the face of the firing pin could easily be removed with household tools, Beddow found.

The researchers estimated that setting up a facility to engrave the firing pins of every handgun sold in California would cost about $8 per firing pin in the first year, falling to under $2 per firing pin in subsequent years, Tulleners said.

Tulleners said that a larger test of about 3,000 firing pins, from a wider range of guns, would allow for a more "real-world" test of the technology. About 650 brands of handguns are sold in California, compared with the nine tested, Beddow estimated in the study. A bigger study would also help show how useful this technology might be in detecting and preventing crime.

The study was commissioned by the California Policy Research Center at the request of the California Legislature.

"We want to make sure that the legislature has good information if they are going to make decisions about this," Tulleners said.

David Howitt, professor of chemical engineering and materials science and chair of the Graduate Group in Forensic Science at UC Davis, supervised the project. Howitt said that while the technique tested here has limitations, there are other possible ways to implement microstamping. For example, an ultra-hard ceramic that would be extremely difficult to file off could be used to make the impression, instead of the relatively soft firing pin.

More university involvement is needed to address these sorts of forensic science issues from their inception, Howitt said.

UC Davis offers a master's degree in forensic science through UC Davis Extension. Courses are taught by an interdisciplinary group of UC Davis faculty and outside experts. The program currently has an enrollment of about 60 students.
Media contact(s):

* Michael Beddow, Forensic Science Graduate Program, (928) 607-4555, [email protected]
* Fred Tulleners, Forensic Science Graduate Program, (530) 757-8699, [email protected] (Cell phone (916) 956-0080)
* Andy Fell, UC Davis News Service, (530) 752-4533, [email protected]
 
Whats the point if I can just modify the weapon to no longer have the stamping mechanism. Just like the magazine safety device on my Ruger MKIII if you leave out that part the weapon still functions. (found out unintentionaly cause I could not get it back together correctly)


"We want to make sure that the legislature has good information if they are going to make decisions about this," Tulleners said.


California gun grabbers don't need good information, they want information that makes them look good.
 
This was already tried and it already failed so to a Democrat it would be reasonable to try it again and at great expense.
 
So, if this silliness passed, and someone were to patent a "firing pin conditioner" comprised of a snap cap containing a serrated, carbide dummy primer, would it be illegal to become insanely rich by selling them?
 
Of course a big part of this will be to require 100% registration of guns with a microstamping system.

However the great brainpowers within the Democrat Party have not explained what should be done if the system actually works (which is doubtfull), the gun is traced to a registered owner, and found to have been stolen. Have the Democrats found a way to get criminals to leave a paper trail??? Didn't think so... :rolleyes:
 
I really like it. Now to commit murder all you have to do to throw the leos way off is get someone else's numbers. Should really help stop crime or maybe not.
 
I wonder what percentage of crimes involving firearms is premeditated? I would guess the majority. This means that the criminal would have time to prepare to avoid micro-stamping on the case.
 
There would be all sorts of new crimes and framing of innocent people simply by scattering a few empty shells at the crime scene that a BG picked up at a range with someone elses microstamp on it.

This solves no crimes and only creates more innocent people being framed.
 
Today I picked up, recovered, or was graciously given a few hundred brass casings at the range. (My to-reload pile is getting ominiously, happily bigger*, and should have its own Lord of the Rings style background music.)

Let's say that one had a few such casings handy the next time one did something especially nefarious (even if it didn't involve a gun). Let's say one left a few of those shell casings around. Do not pass go, do not collect 2 billion pesos, go straight to Mass Pandemonium.

As someone has pointed out on this thread, and has been pointed out with each of these idiotic proposals, this does nothing to stop the Resurrected Ghost of Billy the Kid from offing his worst enemy or best friend with a revolver; he might even upgrade to a nice Smith & Wesson.

Or let's take the movie bogeyman of a long-range sniper (as employed by seemingly every Mafia underboss, overboss, and just-right-boss, as well as furrin' governments, just to snuff public figures). Think they're not saving their brass? By golly, if it's a bolt-action at least, don't they know those guys want it to be chamber-formed?

This idiocy will go on and on; it might even become law, like only the highest grades of idiocy seem to.

timothy

* (Including some brass that a generous THRer has offered to send me! Reloaders seem to be a generous, helpful lot. Not the kind to leave microstamped brass at the scene of the crime.)
 
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I'm sure that criminals, using stolen guns, would never even CONSIDER sanding off the tip surface of the firing pin.

I mean, that would violate the Criminal Code of Ethics.
 
One small point missed...

The point about guns without the microstamping being added to the "unsafe guns" list. It doesn't matter if microstamping works or not. They don't care. What they are really after is to be able to ban all our "old" guns as being "unsafe".

Then all they have to do is show how the microstamping doesn't work, and then those guns will be banned as unsafe as well. Except, of course, for our police, and licensed security professionals.:mad:
 
Ballistic fingerprinting was used in a few states, tested in California and found to be unfeasible by CA goobermint.

So now we get the latest fad of microstamping and curiously enuf the same cast of characters show up. BF was driven by a company with a promising technology which as able to sweet talk the federales with a few wet dreams. Whatcha wanna bet some enterprising company is doing likewise and just happened to hit the jackpot with Crown Royale Ted.

In all things political, follow the money.
 
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