Wasr 10/63 upgrade?

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SigSour

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Hi all - had a question for the AK 47 lovers on THR; I've read a ton on this forum (and others) but I always like to post on THR with questions / for advice.

A few years ago I purchased my first rifle, a Bushmaster Carbon 15, I had no idea I'd like long guns MORE than I did handguns - I took private classes to learn how to use the damn thing and that made it even MORE fun to shoot (with these guys: http://www.apextacticaltraining.com/aboutus.html great guys to train with if you're in the CO area) anyway, the AR15 platform is great so that led me to want to try out the AK platform.

Not wanting to spend a bunch of money I got myself a Wasr 10/63 (the date on it says 1971) * it shoots well, put a bunch of rounds through it. As a few years passed, my understanding of the AR platform grew and I ended up upgrading my Carbon 15 to a Daniel Defense M4V5, now I'm thinking it's my Wasr's turn... or is it?

I've heard different things from different people (usually the guys behind the counters at gun stores)
1. "Get an Arsenal and be done with it, best money you'll ever spend."
2. "Meh, they're all AK's some look better than others but they're all AK's"

My question is, would it be worth upgrading from a Wasr 10/63 to something like an Arsenal? Arsenals are like three times as much as my Wasr, are they three times better? (that's how I make sense of things.. if I'm paying 3x as much for something I expect it to be 3X better) - I've also seen a converted Saiga that was about $900

My goal is to not want to upgrade every few years because I got something that was "so-so", but I also don't want to go broke.

My guns are more for Self defense and SHTF stuff... I'm not a "Prepper" per se but I do think about things going to crap and I'd like to be able to protect my family with something that is seriously reliable - of course all machines can fail but I'd still rather have a Daniel Defense than a Kel-Tec.

Thanks!
 
If your WASR runs then there is nothing wrong with it. Upgrading to a more expensive gun won't do anything more than what you have except pay for a name. Spend that money on ammo.
 
I had a Polytech AK. Very nicely finished.... but shot the same as my WASR.

I do think most ak's top out accuracy wise due to the design. (Its designed to be rugged, reliable, and economically mass produced)

I don't doubt that some of the Russian examples shoot a little better, but I would bet few AK rifles would out shoot an average AR as far as accuracy....(And I like AK's).

Now, if your talking dragging it through mud, drop in water, freeze and repeat.... I'll take an AK.:rolleyes:
 
"Spend that money on ammo."

Yea, I figured that. I was kinda half hoping someone would tell me an Arsenal would feel smoother, shoot straighter and buy me flowers. Should have known better.

Thanks
 
Is it worth moving up in price for similar results? Not to me.

Cheap guns and cheap ammo = cheap thrills.

Arsenal will not accomplish anything that most WASRs can't. They do look better overall. If that matters 3x more then by all means move into an Arsenal.
 
Bulgarian AK rifles shoot better than any Romanian rifle for a number of reasons.
Buying more ammo for a bullet hose is a waste of ammo.
Save your cash, buy the Arsenal.
You'll thank me later.
 
You can upgrade to slicker and more accurate AKs but the WASR has a character of its own. If it shoots sub 3 moa I would just keep it and be happy. If you want a slick one, the best I have used are the SLR107, older milled bulgarians, early VEPRs.
 
I bought my WASR-10/63 about 8 years and it's been highly reliable, semi accurate and a whole lot of fun. The only upgrades have been cutting off the welded barrel nut, replacing that with a flash hider and tung oil/steel wool on the wood. And steel comblock magazines plus lots of cheap ammo.

Sure it's a cheap ugly "AK-47". Like 80 million others. Replacing it is pretty low on my list.
 
Don't know if you have seen the new WASRs or not . Theses rifles are being made with new receivers & are leaps and bounds nicer than the older offerings from century . They are stamped with 2013-2014 mfg dates . Straighter & cleaner these days .
You may want to consider selling the older one & get into a new WASR for a couple bucks more . These are still around for under $550.00 .
Just a thought ..................
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shep854 said:
Face it: You've got newgunitis...no cure, only treatment. If you've got the AK variety, well...enjoy! :evil:
Click to expand...
You know. You're right... I don't know what's come over me. I see it... I want it.. then I try to figure out a way to talk myself out of it (paying for the kids school, groceries, blah blah blah) but I can't seem to help myself.

Sorry for wasting all of your time... I'm sure I'm the only person on THR who purchases firearms they don't absolutely *Need*. :neener: hehe

I need help!:)
 
I dealt with my AKitis with a WASR. I was looking for a budget AK, and the WASR 10 at the shop seemed the best one in the price range. Sights straight, fit, finish, rivets, etc looked good, so it went home with me.
I checked the mags, and they are a good fit, just enough looseness to ensure easy insertion and removal. At the range, it is just a hair off windage, easily correctable. A Tapco sidefolder, and a Romanian surplus handguard with vertical grip and a bolt notch cut into the safety, and it's great!
 
SigSour said:
Not wanting to spend a bunch of money I got myself a Wasr 10/63 (the date on it says 1971) * it shoots well, put a bunch of rounds through it. As a few years passed, my understanding of the AR platform grew and I ended up upgrading my Carbon 15 to a Daniel Defense M4V5, now I'm thinking it's my Wasr's turn... or is it?

My question is, would it be worth upgrading from a Wasr 10/63 to something like an Arsenal? Arsenals are like three times as much as my Wasr, are they three times better? (that's how I make sense of things.. if I'm paying 3x as much for something I expect it to be 3X better) - I've also seen a converted Saiga that was about $900
Click to expand...
You really can't "upgrade" a WASR into an Arenal... You can put the same furniture on it, but other than that, there's nothing really to do. Arsenal's value stems from the fit/finish, adherence to Bulgarian/Russian specs, some collector value, and the fact that they're new rifles... not parts kit builds. Both have CHF-CL barrels, both are functional, but Arsenal's value does not stem from functionality, so much.

What are you hoping to accomplish by "upgrading"?
 
Inebriated said:
You really can't "upgrade" a WASR into an Arenal... You can put the same furniture on it, but other than that, there's nothing really to do. Arsenal's value stems from the fit/finish, adherence to Bulgarian/Russian specs, some collector value, and the fact that they're new rifles... not parts kit builds. Both have CHF-CL barrels, both are functional, but Arsenal's value does not stem from functionality, so much.

What are you hoping to accomplish by "upgrading"?
Click to expand...
The accomplishment would be having another AK... I never wanted to upgrade the WASR into an Arsenal but I did buy the cheapest AK in the store when I got the WASR (I' never owned an AK before that and wasn't sure if I'd like it so I went cheap, just in case)... just like when I bought my first AR-15, a Bushy Carbon 15, it was the cheapest AR in the store (at that time). Both times I wished I'd just gotten a rifle of higher quality the first go-round a month later...

So now I have a Carbon 15 and a Daniel Defense M4V5... soon I may have a WASR and a Saiga or an Arsenal (or a VEPR). Ugh... it never ends. :banghead:
 
Oh... You mean upgrading to an Arsenal. I thought you meant changing WASR parts.

Arsenals are sweet rifles. I have an SGL-21 and it's just a fantastic rifle if you're an AK guy. Been debating on an SLR-107FR as well.
 
i used to have a romanian AK in 7.62x39, got rid of it not because of issues with the rifle but because i really didnt like 7.62x39, since then ive built a 5.56 AK on a bulgarian AK74 parts kit and i like it a lot more, much more accurate, harder hitting past 200 yards and as accurate as any other 5.56 rifle so i cant complain.. as far as upgrades go, i know the AR crowd puts a lot of emphasis on having rails coming out of every nook and cranny of a rifle, but i personally wouldnt call these upgrades

i dont like any of the top rail options for the AK at all, but what i do like that i use now is an RS regulate side rail with a TRS-25 red dot, i can remove the whole assembly in a split second, put it back on just as fast and it holds a perfect zero, it also holds the optic lower than a picatinny rail ever could and even allows me to lower 1/3 co-whitness with the iron sights while still being able to completely field strip without having to remove it

other upgrades a lot of people are getting into is omitting the front sight block and using front sight/gas block combos since most optics are now used for backups to red dots anyway and it brings back the point of balance more to the rear and reduces more weight from the rifle.. plus unlike ARs you can have a side folding stock adapter

__

if i was going to build an AK that appealed to the AR crowd, id start with a bulgarian AR, 5.56mm, AR-15 magazine well permanently fixed to the rifle (which allows the AR-15 mags plus a functioning last round bolt hold open and bolt release), remove the front sight and thread the muzzle for standard .223 muzzle devices, use a gas block / front sight combo, and add a texas weapon systems dogleg top rail and a forearm that has a matched height top rail on it as well, then id replace the rear trunnion with an AK builder trunnion which gives your AK a built in ACE modular interface you can put a side folding hinge onto with your choice of stocks or even AR buffer tube for a side folding telescoping stock.. to the AR person, that would "upgraded"

for me, id do all of that but leave off the quad rail crap and stick to the RS regulate side rail with a TRS-25 red dot

all of what i said can be done starting on an arsenal SLR-106 5.56 AK, and id take one of these over ANY AR15 personally
 
To those thinking of upgrading to an Arsenal AK: DO IT!!

You'll be glad you did.

Just like the OP, my first AK a few years ago was an older WASR10. It shot great, was reliable, and did everything an AK is supposed to do. Nothing fancy, kinda like driving a Toyota.

SigSour, I would related your AK upgrade like your upgrade from the Carbon15 to the DD. I've handled and shot both AR's, but there is simply no comparison between the two. The price difference for the WASR and Arsenal is more like 1:2, meaning a WASR is around $550 and an Arsenal (SLR107 for example) is around $1k.

If you have the means or the expendable assets to upgrade, go for it. You will not regret it, I guarantee you that. Not all AR's and AK's are created equal. This is something you will learn as you own different rifles of different quality. You probably already know this from the comparison of your C15 and DD rifles.

Many people say these things do the same thing; shoot bullets. I always compare it to driving cars. A Toyota/Honda will do the same thing as a BMW/Mercedes. Take that for what its worth.
 
2. "Meh, they're all AK's some look better than others but they're all AK's"
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this is pretty much my opinion on the matter. I owned a wasr a few years back and it was enough to ruin the AK platform for me. I sold it, never looked back, hated that piece of junk. now I recently traded a pair of handguns for a Norinco Mak90 as they are considered to be good quality and the triggers are supposed to be among the best factory triggers on AKs. a lot of the "cheap" things that I hated about the WASR are not present but much of what is fixed happens to be aftermarket stuff that wasn't available when I had my wasr and in the end I still have a gun that in no way, shape, or form, could be considered accurate by any stretch of the imagionation. in my opinion, it is not worth it to "upgrade" to another AK, the difference in quality is so slight as to be un-noticeable unless you're shooting the two side by side. I am currently working on selling my Norinco to fuel other gun purchases.

if you'd like a long, boring read that goes much more indepth, here's a link to a review I did on thefiringline
 
Tahuna, I posted on that 'other' thread, but for the readers here, I'll say that Century has gotten squared away, and the WASR I bought just a few weeks ago is FAR better than the clunkers they used to put out, and that you got stuck with.

I am quite satisfied with the WASR and there are a number of other guns on my want list before I pick another AK--but that could change suddenly!:p
 
Tahuna, I posted on that 'other' thread, but for the readers here, I'll say that Century has gotten squared away, and the WASR I bought just a few weeks ago is FAR better than the clunkers they used to put out
Click to expand...
so.... you strengthen my position? I had to worst possible example of a WASR and I still take the point of view that buying a $1000 AK is not a serious jump in quality and performance so if they have gotten better in recent years the difference in quality is even smaller.
 
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