WCC marked brass

[PinoyInFL]

I reloaded some brass which I thought were .308 but once I chambered a round, the bolt on my Rem 700 won't close. The brass had "WCC 79" marked at the bottom. Anyone else came accross brass with similar markings? Can anyone tell me what caliber these brass are for?

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

First, if you're not sure of the caliber, use your calipers and measure rather than assuming. Safer that way.

Second, could be a military issue from 1979. I have some Winchester military .308 brass from 1979 that our unit armorer gave me at the end of that year for Christmas.

Third, did you full-length size it or only neck size it?

Fourth, what is your COAL and how does it compare with your chamber measurement?

Jeff

 

[PowderApe]

Where did you get that brass?? Sounds like GI .308

did you full length resize?? Could it have been reworked into another caliber and you just expanded the neck back out to fit a 308 slug??

Compare it to a known good 308 that DOES chamber and the bolt locks up and look for any differences like shoulder or length, etc. Is the overall length ok?

It may have come from a full auto weapon which may swell out the base of the case requiring full length resizing ALL THE WAY to the case head to fully fit the chamber and allow lockup. This sometimes cannot be done with conventional reloading presses because the shell holder and the sizing die's mouth radius wont allow the sizer to go down far enough to resize all the way down! and that last 1/4 inch of cartridge case is left swelled and unsized and wont allow the bolt to fully close and locking down...

 

[243winxb]

http://cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htmWCC is Western Cartridge Company (Olin), East Alton, IL 79 is the year made

 

[USSR]

I reloaded some brass which I thought were .308 but once I chambered a round, the bolt on my Rem 700 won't close. The brass had "WCC 79" marked at the bottom. Anyone else came accross brass with similar markings? Can anyone tell me what caliber these brass are for?

Winchester manufactured military 7.62x51 (.308Win) ammo made in 1979. Use a magic marker and mark this brass case that won't chamber on the shoulder and slightly above the extractor groove. Then, try to chamber it again and see where it is hanging up (scuff marks where you applied the marking to the brass). If it is the shoulder, then you need to screw your die a little further into your press to move the shoulder back a bit more. If the scuff mark is in the area just above the extractor groove, then it is machinegun fired brass and you will need to use a small base die on the brass to reduce the diameter of the web portion of the brass.

Don

 

[PinoyInFL]

The length of the case was 2.01. The OAL was 2.85 (which is the same as another case that fit well). What I notice is a very slight difference in the shoulder/neck area. I use an RCBS competition die set which has a full length sizer die. I'll see if I can get hold of those short base dies and use them for resizing. Thanks for all the responses.

 

[Jerry M]

Are you sure that the bullet is not going into the rifling? It will also give you the symptom that you are describing.

Jerry

 

[PinoyInFL]

I pulled the bullet out and shortened the cartridge length to 2.0. W/out any bullet, I inserted the case into the chamber, pushed it in a little bit (to get it over the "bump"), and tried to close the bolt. The bolt still won't close.

 

[rcmodel]

I'd bet you a crisp 100 dollar bill you just haven't got your sizing die screwed in far enough.

Adjust you sizing die so you get a distinct "bump" cam-over at full ram travel.

Use USSR's suggesting about a Magic Marker (or smoke a case with a candle flame) then chamber it and see where it is too tight.

Dollars to donuts it's not full-length sized yet, and the shoulder is causing the problem.

rcmodel

 

[PinoyInFL]

USSR and rcmodel were right. I just needed to screw down the dies a teeny little bit further. What's strange is that I used the same set-up for a batch of Federal cases and those worked out pretty well. That's what confused me into thinking that the problem was somehow with the brass. When I do a visual side-by-side comparison of the cases that worked and those that didn't, I cannot see any difference. Anyway, thanks for the advice. Once again, fellow reloaders come through.

 

[rcmodel]

You can't see it because you are dealing with .001" or so length to shoulder difference.

Not even a calibrated eyeball can see .001"!

The WCC GI brass is very likely thicker & harder then the commercial .308 Federal so it takes more to full-length size them.

rcmodel

 

[snuffy]

To know for sure, get one of these.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=574297

Or one of these.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=271313

Both will tell you when your case is too long to chamber by reading off the shoulder. The first one, the RCBS will read out in .001 increments, so you can set the FL die to only bump back the shoulder as little as needed to allow it to chamber.

Without one of those gauges, you're flying blind as to how much you're actually sizing. The RCBS gauge needs either a factory round or a new case reloaded by you, to establish what your particular chamber's head space is. Once that is known, you can set your FL die to only push back the shoulder to .002-.003.

 

[USSR]

The RCBS gauge needs either a factory round or a new case reloaded by you, to establish what your particular chamber's head space is.

snuffy,

While I agree with you that you are "flying blind as to how much you're actually sizing" without a tool such as the RCBS Precision Mic, please explain how the gauge and a factory round or new case reloaded by you tells you what your chamber headspace is?

Don

 

[Slamfire]

I know there are a lot of folks who are checking their fired brass with an RCBS or Sinclair device, and think they are measuring rifle headspace. But it is just as likely they are not.

We had one gentleman here who is sizing his 30-06 cases .008" long, because that was is the length he measured with his RCBS tool after they came out of his M1 Garand. The sized cases were so long, he could not use them in his M1903's or bolt guns.

I highly suspect that his long cases are being swaged into the chamber when the M1 bolt closes.

(And as he turned out to be such a very nice guy, it troubles me greatly to think he might have an out of battery slamfire)

Best way to measure rifle headspace is with a rifle chamber headspace gage.

Incidentally, my Wilson cartridge headspace gages, you drop a rifle chamber gage in one of those, the "go" gage lines up with the bottom mark, and the "no go" lines up with the top mark.

As mentioned earlier, changing to different brass, reloaded different amount of times, the springback will be different.

I excavate my cartridge headspace gages each time I am sizing service rifle brass. Especially if it is once fired range pickup brass, and I check to make sure I am sizing to gage minimum. Be surprized how often I have to adjust the die.

 

[MarshallDodge]

USSR and rcmodel were right. I just needed to screw down the dies a teeny little bit further. What's strange is that I used the same set-up for a batch of Federal cases and those worked out pretty well. That's what confused me into thinking that the problem was somehow with the brass. When I do a visual side-by-side comparison of the cases that worked and those that didn't, I cannot see any difference. Anyway, thanks for the advice. Once again, fellow reloaders come through.

You probably have some once-fired machine gun brass. A buddy gave me a bunch of military 7.62 LC brass last year. I had to make sure that it was lubed well and that the press cammed over like rcmodel said.

I purchased a stainless case gauge from Dillon and make sure all of the cases meet spec before loading. It makes life much easier because the longer cases get stuck pretty hard in my LR-308 when the bolt tries to slam them home.

 

[snuffy]

While I agree with you that you are "flying blind as to how much you're actually sizing" without a tool such as the RCBS Precision Mic, please explain how the gauge and a factory round or new case reloaded by you tells you what your chamber headspace is?

Darn it, I re-read my reply after posting, just before heading off to work. I failed to say, factory or new cases "fired in your chamber".

The destructions in the RCBS box say to only use new or factory loaded cases. BUT the federal factory .223's that I bought and fired,(they were loaded in lc brass), came out measuring the same as some of my other reloads. Tuns out my bushy is .007 longer than SAMMI minimum.

It was actually fun to size some brass in my Hornady FL die, and SEE the difference slightly turning the die down made.

 

[MarshallDodge]

The destructions in the RCBS box say to only use new or factory loaded cases. BUT the federal factory .223's that I bought and fired,(they were loaded in lc brass), came out measuring the same as some of my other reloads.

This was probably FC brass.

Tuns out my bushy is .007 longer than SAMMI minimum.

Your "bushy" is probably just as tight as SAAMI standards, what you are seeing is that the cases tend to expand more when firing in a semi-auto.

 

[snuffy]

This was probably FC brass.

Nope. It is American Eagle tactical XM193, 55 FMJ. This is just what the factory is putting on the market for us civilians to shoot, that was loaded the same as what's going over to the sand box. The headstamp says LC.08 with a nato cross inside a circle. That stuff shot quite good from my bushy, seemed hot, but no pressure signs, plus I would end up with good LC brass, so I bought a case. $189.95/500.

I'm not saying what RCBS is saying is correct. That is, what the fired case is telling you is actually what your headspace is. BUT you now know how to set your sizing die to minimally size so that you don't push back the shoulder too much. You get a better fit in the chamber, and you minimize or eliminate case head separations. AND there's no guessing or "eyeballing" or trying to measure with a caliper to see if your sizer is set correctly.

The other part of the RCBS precision mike is for finding the lands for seating length. Since I want all my ammo to cycle through a magazine in my bushy, I'm not concerned with that aspect of the tool. Others have said it is minimally useful because the ogive of the "bullet" usually doesn't match the ones they're loading.